fulltimestudent

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Posts by fulltimestudent

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  14

  What did early Christians believe about the dead?

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  as witnesses we were truly convinced that we knew the truth about the dead.

  they were truly dead, and we often quoted ecclesiastes 9:4-6, our favourite proof text on that topic, to prove the point.

  that text reads (just in case you've already forgotten it - smile), (from the niv):.

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  fulltimestudent

  If we could converse with some early Christians, what would they say on this subject?

  We can't, but we do have some written evidence of what they believed. Here's some quotations;

  From, 'The Letter of Ignatius to the Romans.'

  "It is a grand thing for my life to set on the world, and for me to be on my way to God, so that I may rise in his presence." (2:2)

  Ignatius was arrested around 110 C.E. and sent to Rome for to be tried and executed.

  ---------------------

  From, 'The Martyrdom of Perpetua and Felicitas.'

  While being held in prison Perpetua has a number of visions, one of them concerned her 7 y.o brother who had previously died from cancer. In this vision she 'sees' him already in heaven, and healed of the cancer that killed him. (Ch 8). In another vision related by a fellow Christian prisoner, he 'sees' their group after their death, carried off to 'heaven' by angels. Heaven is described as a beautiful garden. There other angels invite them to, ".. come and enter and greet the Lord." (Ch. 11-14).

  Their martyrdom occurred around 202-203 C.E.

  -------------------
• 
  17

  Where's this going? American soldiers call on Jehovah

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the song is 'days of elijah,' and the bit i'm referring to is about half way through, as they sing, "there is no god like jehovah":.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjz_ilp9c5a.

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  fulltimestudent

  I'd never heard that particular song previously, for anyone else as dumb as I am, here's the lyrics, or should I say, what someone has posted on the web, as the lyrics:

  "Days Of Elijah"
  
  

  These are the days of Elijah
  Declaring the word of the Lord, yeah
  And these are the days of Your servant, Moses
  Righteousness being restored
  
  These are the days of great trials
  Of famine and darkness and sword
  Still we are the voice in the desert crying
  Prepare ye the way of the Lord!
  
  Say, behold He comes, riding on the clouds
  Shining like the sun, at the trumpet's call
  Lift your voice, (it's) the year of Jubilee
  Out of Zion's hill, salvation comes
  
  And these are the days of Ezekiel
  The dry bones becoming as flesh
  And these are the days of Your servant, David
  Rebuilding the temple of praise
  
  And these are the days of the harvest
  The fields are all white in the world
  And we are the laborers that are in Your vineyard
  Declaring the Word of the Lord
  
  Say, behold He comes, riding on the clouds
  Shining like the sun at the trumpet's call
  Lift your voice, (it's) the year of Jubilee
  Out of Zion's hill, salvation comes
  
  Behold He comes, riding on the clouds
  Shining like the sun at the trumpet's call
  Lift your voice, (it's) the year of Jubilee
  Out of Zion's hill, salvation comes
  
  There's no God like Jehovah!
  There's no God like Jehovah!
  There's no God like Jehovah!
  There's no God like Jehovah!
  
  There's no God like Jehovah!
  There's no God like Jehovah!
  There's no God like Jehovah!
  There's no God like Jehovah!
  
  There's no God like Jehovah!
  There's no God like Jehovah!
  There's no God like Jehovah!
  There's no God like Jehovah!
  
  There's no God like Jehovah!
  There's no God like Jehovah!
  There's no God like Jehovah!
  There's no God like Jehovah!
  
  There's no God like Jehovah!
  There's no God like Jehovah!
  There's no God like Jehovah!
  There's no God like Jehovah!
  
  There's no God like Jehovah!
  There's no God like Jehovah!
  There's no God like Jehovah!
  There's no God like Jehovah!
  
  Behold He comes, riding on the clouds
  Shining like the sun, at the trumpet's call
  Lift your voice, (it's) the year of Jubilee
  Out of Zion's hill, salvation comes
  
  Behold He comes, riding on the clouds
  Shining like the sun, at the trumpet's call
  Lift your voice, (it's) the year of Jubilee
  Out of Zion's hill, salvation comes
• 
  52

  Helen Keller is not a hero

  by StopTheTears in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  few realize just how wicked some of the most revered people in history were.

  helen keeler (1880 to 1968) was a wolf in sheep's clothing, no hero.

  keller was a communist.

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  fulltimestudent

  'as an avowed communist she had such left-leaning opinions that the FBI under J. Edgar Hoover kept a file on her.'

  Haha! Hoover kept dirt files on everyone, Including John Kennedy. He knew pretty well how many women this American hero was rooting. So what?

  'Helen Keller wrote glowingly of the emergence of communism during the Russian Revolution of 1917.'

  Lots of intellectuals and thinkers in the western world wrote glowingly of the Russian Bolshevik revolution, or more precisely the initial accomplishments.

  Because I study (and write things) about life in China today, I'm sometimes accused of being a 'commie' (grin). I'm not - I don't think that 'communism' works, it founders on individual selfsishness, an unfortunate human trait.

  ps: China moved from being 'communist' after the death of Mao Zedong.

  
  
• 
  14

  What did early Christians believe about the dead?

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  as witnesses we were truly convinced that we knew the truth about the dead.

  they were truly dead, and we often quoted ecclesiastes 9:4-6, our favourite proof text on that topic, to prove the point.

  that text reads (just in case you've already forgotten it - smile), (from the niv):.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  fulltimestudent

  As witnesses we were truly convinced that we knew the truth about the dead. They were truly dead, and we often quoted Ecclesiastes 9:4-6, our favourite proof text on that topic, to prove the point. That text reads (just in case you've already forgotten it - smile), (from the NIV):

  "Anyone who is among the living has hope[b]—even a live dog is better off than a dead lion!
  For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten."

  We probably never thought much about the next bit, which in many versions can be used to argue against the concept of a resurrection, because the NWT uses Freddie's escape clause, as he translates the NIV's rendering of vs 6, which reads:

  "Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun."

  with an expression that uses an alternative meaning for the pertinent Hebrew word, so that it reads (at least in older versions of the NWT) -

  "Also the love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun."

  The Hebrew expression is 'owlam.' which can have these meanings (according to Strong's Concordance):

  1. long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world
     ancient time, long time (of past)
     (of future)

     1. 1. for ever, always

        2. continuous existence, perpetual

        3. everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity

           So it become rather clear that its difficult to use the bible to solve ideological views of what the author of that document was implying when he wrote the words.

           In an attempt to solve that dilemma, we could try to interrogate the author in some way. Who was he, when did he live, etc? That may give us some idea of what he meant.

           We immediately run into a road block. The author is not named, the first verse simply stating, according to the NIV:

           "The words of the Teacher,[a] son of David, king in Jerusalem":

           the NWT chooses to use the word congregator,

           The hebrew word is qoheleth, to which Strong's provides these meanings:

           1. collector (of sentences), preacher, public speaker, speaker in an assembly, Qoheleth

           The JWs ideological way of solving these problems, becomes clear when we go to the Aid book for information. In the entry for Eccleiastes, the first two paragraphs provides a barrage of information attempting to say the author must be Solomon, and therefore we are reading a traditional Hebrew view of death, so that it all fits neatly into the witness ideological box.

           However, a consensus of modern scholarship has a different view, I suggest that the Wikipedia entry probably portrays that contemporary consensus when it describes it this way:

           "The book takes its name from the Greek ekklesiastes, a translation of the title by which the central figure refers to himself: Koheleth, meaning something like "one who convenes or addresses an assembly".[10] According to rabbinic tradition, Ecclesiastes was written by Solomon in his old age.[11] (An alternative tradition that "Hezekiah and his colleagues wrote Isaiah, Proverbs, the Song of Songs and Ecclesiastes" probably means simply that the book was edited under Hezekiah.)[12]

        4. 
           Nevertheless, critical scholars have long rejected the idea of a pre-exilic origin.[13][14] The presence of Persian loan-words and Aramaisms points to a date no earlier than about 450 BCE,[1] while the latest possible date for its composition is 180 BCE, when another Jewish writer, Ben Sira, quotes from it.[15] The dispute as to whether Ecclesiastes belongs to the Persian or the Hellenistic periods (i.e., the earlier or later part of this period) revolves around the degree of Hellenization (influence of Greek culture and thought) present in the book. Scholars arguing for a Persian date (c. 450–330 BCE) hold that there is a complete lack of Greek influence;[1] those who argue for a Hellenistic date (c. 330–180 BCE) argue that it shows internal evidence of Greek thought and social setting.[16]"

           https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesiastes
           

           We can appreciate that we need some other way to identify what early Christians expected when they died? So that's for the next post:

           
           

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  17

  Where's this going? American soldiers call on Jehovah

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the song is 'days of elijah,' and the bit i'm referring to is about half way through, as they sing, "there is no god like jehovah":.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjz_ilp9c5a.

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  2. 
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  fulltimestudent

  The song is 'Days of Elijah,' and the bit I'm referring to is about half way through, as they sing, "there is no God like Jehovah":

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjZ_IlP9c5A
  
• 
  8

  Emptiness of Watchtower

  by vinman in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  since i left the organization, i have learned so many new and deep things.

  i know some in the watchtower are intelligent, however it has been my experience, that most i've dealt with are.

  .. well quite inept.

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  fulltimestudent

  vinman: Even when it comes to the Bible, very simple. I couldn't go back if I wanted to. My mind is so thirsty for up to date and scholarly research. The writers of the Watchtower, use the Watchtower for research. Very empty indeed.

  Right on, mate! The more I learn, the more I realise that I was conned. No consolation, to realise that it was my own bloody fault.
• 
  8

  Is this the wisest way? - there is no truth!

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends
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  fulltimestudent

  Diogenesister: Fulltimestudent Thank you for your posts, enjoying them

  Can I be nosey & ask what you study, or are you a student of life generally?😀

  Sure, I enrolled in a BA program, at the university I attend to study China, soon found out how universities work and that I could not handle getting used to University, the historical studies AND the language. So I dropped language,and went part-time (four study units a year). That's why I'm still there after starting in 2008. I also found that I could not study China in isolation, so extended the focus of my studies to include all of Asia. That's why I can also study Judaism and Christianity - they are Asian philosophies, after all.
  

  I think I'm going to just keep studying (as long as I can) - so I'm probably both a formal and informal student - I stuffed my life up becoming a witness when I was 17, and I'm nearing 80, so I'm not heading for an illustrious career anywhere, just hanging out being a bloody old nuisance, and enjoying annoying some people.

  Btw I am in London so will defo see the codex

  Great! Enjoy your visit to the museum - its a great museum even if the Brits did steal half the stuff in it - grin
• 
  4

  A young Indian woman tracks down the man who raped her, and ....

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  https://www.facebook.com/cctvnewschina/videos/1028635983843888/?pnref=story

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  fulltimestudent

  https://www.facebook.com/cctvnewschina/videos/1028635983843888/?pnref=story
• 

  Want to see the Codex Sinaiticus? If you're British, go see it at the British Museum

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. social
  2. current

  from the uk independent: .

  http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/worlds-oldest-bible-codex-sinaiticus-to-go-on-display-at-british-museum-10473944.html.

  world's oldest bible codex sinaiticus to go on display at british museum.

• 

  fulltimestudent

  From the UK Independent:

  http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/worlds-oldest-bible-codex-sinaiticus-to-go-on-display-at-british-museum-10473944.html

  
  

  World's oldest Bible Codex Sinaiticus to go on display at British Museum

  

  IAN JOHNSTON
  

  Thursday 27 August 2015

  The world’s oldest bible – dating back to the 4th century AD – is to go on display at the British Museum.
  

  The Codex Sinaiticus, which is handwritten in Greek, will be part of an exhibition called Egypt after the Pharoahs from October to February, The Guardian reported.

  It is normally kept at the British Library and has only been lent out once before – also to the British Museum in 1990 – since it was bought from the Soviet Union in 1933.

  Dr Scot [COR] McKendrick, head of western manuscripts at the Library, said: “Since it arrived in the 1930s it has always been one of the greatest treasures in the collection.”

  It is thought to have been written by four different scribes and contains some 27,000 corrections. “This is a very beautiful and fine book but it also has all this activity going on its margins and between lines, all over the place really,” Dr McKendrick said.

  An online version of the codex has been available since 2009, but the exhibition represents a rare chance for large numbers of people to view the book.

  It will be displayed along with the First Gaster Bible, a Hebrew text from the 9th century, and a historic copy of the Koran from the Bodleian Library in Oxford.

  The exhibition will look at how Egypt changed over 1,200 years from a polytheistic society to a predominantly Christian and then Muslim one and also at the life of Jewish communities there.

  It will include evidence of how people of different faiths managed to live together during the Medieval period, such as a document about two female monks renting part of their home to a Jewish man and another describing how Jewish and Muslim craftsmen had recommended that a client use the other’s services.

  Dr McKendrick said: “We are trying to convey what happened in the past based on the archaeological and historical evidence we have, but I do hope that people are able to consider current events in light of what we are able to present.”

  Speaking about the codex, Elisabeth O’Connell, assistant keeper in the British Museum’s department of ancient Egypt and Sudan, said: “It is quite phenomenal they are able to lend it to us. We are absolutely thrilled
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  8

  Is this the wisest way? - there is no truth!

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends
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  fulltimestudent