Posts by InterestedOne

59

Elder wants to do "other activities" with me

by InterestedOne in

jw
friends

i'm fully aware that this is a cult, and i was waiting for the social elements to kick in.

so far, i have just been doing the "bible study," discussing doctrine, etc.

however, recently one of the elders said he wants to get together with me to do other activities.

InterestedOne

@mamalove - she is a convert since 2003. Her family is not JW. I asked her what her family thinks, and she said her mom covers her ears when she tries to bring the JW stuff up. I can totally understand. As for her doubts, I don't get to hear them. I wish I could - at least we would be communicating on a more meaningful level. Instead, she just repeats the JW rhetoric at me. She went to art school & is not familiar with things like logical fallacies. I have an engineering degree, so I can process that stuff more easily. That's not to say engineers can't be fooled by cults, but I think my background has served me well in developing critical thinking skills. When I present her with things in the WT that don't add up, she takes on the martyr complex they program and makes me out to be overly scrutinizing toward them.

@trillaz - OMG. Thank you. This is exactly the kind of info I need to know. Being unfamiliar with the way things are in this cult, I would have had no idea. Thank you so much. I'm going to seriously think about the implications of what you said. It's another example of things that smack me in the head the more I learn about their subculture and make me sit here and go "aaaaaaaaaah" inside.

59

Elder wants to do "other activities" with me

by InterestedOne in

jw
friends

i'm fully aware that this is a cult, and i was waiting for the social elements to kick in.

so far, i have just been doing the "bible study," discussing doctrine, etc.

however, recently one of the elders said he wants to get together with me to do other activities.

InterestedOne

How old is she if you don't mind me asking?

She is 33, and I'm 37. Yes, she is very intriguing. It's the things she does intuitively that attract me to her. EXCEPT for this cult. My friends say, "how could someone with any intuition fall for this?" I'm not ready to judge her character that harshly because I know what it's like to fall into a kind of brainwashing/delusion scenario. I allowed myself to be persuaded by some born-againers when I was in college & found in myself some of the same thought patterns I see in her. However, I was still willing to seriously consider the views of those who disagreed with me and change my mind. It seems like something more controlling is going on with this cult which makes me less hopeful that she will "wake up." She may not, and I'm prepared to accept it, as much as it hurts. When I get to the end of the "study," if she asks why I don't accept it, I want to be able to explain why. I can't just say "itsacult" even though I know it is (btw I do love the itsacult posts b/c they are a good reminder). I'm hoping I can at least say something that she'll remember and maybe think about. These WT guys are pretty good though - they seem to have covered a lot of the usual problems people bring up, at least enough to retain the members who are already rooting for them - like my friend.

59

Elder wants to do "other activities" with me

by InterestedOne in

jw
friends

i'm fully aware that this is a cult, and i was waiting for the social elements to kick in.

so far, i have just been doing the "bible study," discussing doctrine, etc.

however, recently one of the elders said he wants to get together with me to do other activities.

InterestedOne

Do you think she has feelings for you?

I don't know. There's this extra layer that stifles what should be a normal healthy process. It should be so simple: you hang out, get to know each other as people and see if anything is there. If not, it's ok, and you're just friends. In this situation, it's hard to even be friends, let alone get to know each other on a deeper level. How can I possibly find out what her feelings are, if she can't have any meaningful contact with me? About a year ago I asked her on a date. She explained about Paul, marriage, the wicked system, paradise, and concluded with "so, no dates." She didn't say how she actually felt about me. We do interact in normal life and have common interests, but she has a wall up. I can't tell if it's because she's not interested or not allowed to be interested. Other people who know her think she's in this cult to hide from men. I don't know. I think she was hurt in the past, and within this cult she feels safe because of the "principles" and how she thinks the men are so "humble." I don't think they're humble. After a brief conversation with her PO, he struck me as a manipulative jerk. I didn't call him that to her, but I did say I was "spooked" by the environment. She says he's like her "daddy," and he's just being "theocratic like quality control." More rationalizing.

59

Elder wants to do "other activities" with me

by InterestedOne in

jw
friends

i'm fully aware that this is a cult, and i was waiting for the social elements to kick in.

so far, i have just been doing the "bible study," discussing doctrine, etc.

however, recently one of the elders said he wants to get together with me to do other activities.

InterestedOne

Amicus wrote:

Worst case scenario is you actually read and learn. They throw the "Bible" at you? Read it...in context. Your romantic interest either supports you or retreats, best get to know her now. I submit any half serious novice that is willing to read can see through their nonsense.

That's how I see it. I don't intend to -become- anything. I'm simply attempting to -understand- this cult to see what she is wrapped up in. At the same time, I can feel how powerful their mind control tactics are. It's nasty, and I have to admit, if I'm not careful I find myself being manipulated. That's why I've been asking questions and reading up.

I would not join and live a lie just to be with her. That would be terrible. Still, by looking at this cult, I am learning something about her indirectly. It's annoying that we can't just get to know each other one-on-one, but I'll take what I can get at this point. Once I know enough to explain clearly why I don't accept it, at least she'll know that I cared enough to look at something that is important to her.

@Band on the Run - I wasn't suggesting anything sexual regarding the Elder but was wondering what he might be up to from a social manipulation standpoint. As for my female friend, yes she did share some personal things like how she was going through a rough time and a JW was the first person who really listened to her. She didn't know the Bible and was fascinated with their supposed "educational work" to "help" people understand the Bible. She is convinced that studying with them is equivalent to studying the Bible. To me, they lack credibility, but to her they are highly trustworthy. They've fooled her with the "new light" thing. She's been in this since 2003 and is highly indoctinated. I see all the telltale signs like rationalizing, etc. They really did a job on her & it makes me want to cry. I'm going to stick it out a little longer and see if I can explain to her intelligently my reason for walking away.

59

Elder wants to do "other activities" with me

by InterestedOne in

jw
friends

i'm fully aware that this is a cult, and i was waiting for the social elements to kick in.

so far, i have just been doing the "bible study," discussing doctrine, etc.

however, recently one of the elders said he wants to get together with me to do other activities.

InterestedOne

if they're at different times to yours

I checked. They put me in one that meets at the same time on Sundays. Dunno if it was intentional or not, but if it was, that's just wrong. However, her weeknight mtg is on a different night from mine, so maybe I'll try that. Thanks for the encouragement.

59

Elder wants to do "other activities" with me

by InterestedOne in

jw
friends

i'm fully aware that this is a cult, and i was waiting for the social elements to kick in.

so far, i have just been doing the "bible study," discussing doctrine, etc.

however, recently one of the elders said he wants to get together with me to do other activities.

InterestedOne

BP, you're right, and we actually are in regular contact for practical reasons related to her business. We do talk occasionally about other things in our lives, but she still has a wall up. The reason I said being in separate congs separates us is that keeps us from having a shared experience. I wanted to be in the same room hearing the same public talk and be able to share our thoughts on it. I wanted to interact with the individual elders that have so much influence in her life. When you're remote, something is lost. Just relaying something I learned somewhere is different from sharing an experience.

59

Elder wants to do "other activities" with me

by InterestedOne in

jw
friends

i'm fully aware that this is a cult, and i was waiting for the social elements to kick in.

so far, i have just been doing the "bible study," discussing doctrine, etc.

however, recently one of the elders said he wants to get together with me to do other activities.

InterestedOne

@Satanus - I ran into the "apostate" problem early on. She said, "I know you read a lot of apostate sites. Are you just interested in verifying their claims or learning what the Bible teaches?" Notice the dichotomy in her mind. It's diabolical programming this cult has done. She also refers to former-JW writing as "apostate propaganda." I didn't have the heart to say "how ironic! You want to talk about propaganda?" Instead, I've been trying to be gentle about it. I don't get much of a chance though b/c of this stupid separating us into a different congs - that was a powerful move by the elders.

59

Elder wants to do "other activities" with me

by InterestedOne in

jw
friends

i'm fully aware that this is a cult, and i was waiting for the social elements to kick in.

so far, i have just been doing the "bible study," discussing doctrine, etc.

however, recently one of the elders said he wants to get together with me to do other activities.

InterestedOne

Run!

I wish it were that simple. We have a lot in common as far as secular/artistic life goes. I work freelance and help her out with her small business. For the most part, we stick to practical matters, especially because she has done her "duty" and turned me over. I feel a sense of obligation to follow through with the "Bible Teach" book. I want her to see that I didn't just dismiss it without giving it a fair hearing. I want to be able to say that I have learned what she believes and don't accept it - maybe even give a couple of clear reasons why. If I walk out if it midway, she can just say, "well, you didn't stick around long enough to get the whole picture."

59

Elder wants to do "other activities" with me

by InterestedOne in

jw
friends

i'm fully aware that this is a cult, and i was waiting for the social elements to kick in.

so far, i have just been doing the "bible study," discussing doctrine, etc.

however, recently one of the elders said he wants to get together with me to do other activities.

InterestedOne

Sherah wrote:

Are you romantically interested in the female friend?

Yes. We knew each other casually because we have some common interests and mutual acquaintances. She would mention spiritual matters, and I was willing to listen. She always kept a wall up, but we would have long phone conversations about the Bible, etc. I was just happy thinking we might be getting to know each other better. Unfortunately, I was in for a rude awakening. She invited me to the "memorial" and a few CO special talks at her cong. After one of the special talks, her PO came up to me & started asking questions. He asked who I was "studying" with. When I gestured to my friend, he turned to her and said, "you have to turn him over." It felt like he had punched me in the gut. Since then I have been "turned over" to some guy in another cong who just blows their doctrine at me. I'm going along with it to get a sense of what my friend is wrapped up in, but it sucks because it's all one step removed from the person I simply wanted to get to know better. I truly did want to get to know her hoping for a genuine friendship - romance or not because I admire her as a person. I have enough self control to be fine with no romance if she wasn't interested. But now I have no way of knowing how she feels about anything because any "deep" discussions have been offloaded to some guy.

@Black Sheep & Juan Viejo2 - I would sincerely appreciate some help as I go through this "Bible study" and my interactions with the JW's. I will post updates.

59

Elder wants to do "other activities" with me

by InterestedOne in

jw
friends

i'm fully aware that this is a cult, and i was waiting for the social elements to kick in.

so far, i have just been doing the "bible study," discussing doctrine, etc.

however, recently one of the elders said he wants to get together with me to do other activities.

InterestedOne

@Juan Viejo2 - I don't fall into the "vulnerable" categories - I'm an average 37-year-old male.

@Alwayshere - I'm only going through this "Bible study" because I have a friend who is a JW, and I'm trying to understand her perspective. She has an obvious cult-induced wall put up, and I'm just trying to see what the heck is going on here. He didn't specify what he meant by "other activities," but it seems like he wants to get to know me better.

He's actually one of the nicer people in the cong. The fact that he is nice and I could actually see myself becoming friends with him drives home the nastiness of shunning. That's one reason I mentioned the social element of this cult. I was wondering if there are any common ways that he might be trying to manipulate me socially. One possibility I was thinking of might be "good cop bad cop." He is the good cop, and the PO could be the bad cop. I don't know, I'm just throwing ideas out there and curious what others have experienced.

The checking for fitness to be an unbaptized publisher motive makes sense. Maybe he wants to get into my personal life to see if I follow their rules - which I don't. I can also see what dysfunction & Mad Sweeney are saying. It started with the "free" "no-obligation" "just an overview" "Bible study." Then it turned into "if you want to better understand, you should attend meetings." So here I am attending meetings. I could totally see the next step being invited to little "gatherings." I'm curious to see if that happens.