Posts by InterestedOne

60

CO will sit in on my "study" this week: any suggestions?

by InterestedOne in

in my "study" with jw's, we're in ch 7 of the "bible teach" book.

we did pars 17-20 last week.

this week, the co is in town, and my conductor is having him sit in.

InterestedOne

Wow! Four paragraphs in an hour!

Maybe you are rushing things a little and should cut it down to just one paragraph every 30 minutes.

Good point. When I started the study, I would take forever just to get through a paragraph because I would question them on everything. Over time, as I started to get a feel for how they respond to questions, I think sheer exhaustion led me to just go along to get an overview. Yes, I am still asking questions - hence this thread, but sometimes even though their responses are not satisfactory, I just let them know I'm not satisfied & we move on. It is amazing how slick they are though with what they are constructing in their minds concerning me. In one instance, I said "I understand your reasoning, but. . ." and he finished for me ". . . but you don't accept it." Notice the double meaning & mis-communication. In my mind, "don't accept it" means even though I understand his line of thinking, I think there might be something wrong with it, but can't put my finger on it. In his mind, "don't accept it" means he has given me solid reasoning but I am refusing to accept it. He changed it from an intellectual problem to an attitude problem. That's just nasty.

60

CO will sit in on my "study" this week: any suggestions?

by InterestedOne in

in my "study" with jw's, we're in ch 7 of the "bible teach" book.

we did pars 17-20 last week.

this week, the co is in town, and my conductor is having him sit in.

InterestedOne

Good to know. Even if they know the standard response, bringing up the question and receiving that response will allow me to simply let them know that deeper research has been done that leads to a different explanation. Do you have verses that indicate the writer thought Jesus was betrayed by the dark powers in heavenly places?

60

CO will sit in on my "study" this week: any suggestions?

by InterestedOne in

in my "study" with jw's, we're in ch 7 of the "bible teach" book.

we did pars 17-20 last week.

this week, the co is in town, and my conductor is having him sit in.

InterestedOne

Thank you laverite :)

Oh, also I just looked up the "12 apostles" question in 1 Cor 15:5. It looks like some commentators explain it by saying the early Christians referred to the apostles as "the twelve," even though Judas had died. It was just an appellation. See:

http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/15-5.htm

60

CO will sit in on my "study" this week: any suggestions?

by InterestedOne in

in my "study" with jw's, we're in ch 7 of the "bible teach" book.

we did pars 17-20 last week.

this week, the co is in town, and my conductor is having him sit in.

InterestedOne

Peacefulpete, No problem. I appreciate when people point out things that make me check myself. After I read your post, I asked myself if I was being honest with them. I went back to the very beginning when they asked what my purpose was for meeting with them. I was actually quite indignant at the first study and said, "well, since I have been 'turned over' and can't even talk with my friend about this, and since it looks like you corral your women, I want to see exactly what is going on with you people." They said ok let's do it. So, here I am. Thank you so much for the "12 apostles" question. I'm curious how they respond. If the CO terminates the study, then so be it. One thing though is that I don't act like a jerk to them. I simply ask questions & point out things that don't add up. If the CO terminates the study, my conductor will have to live with the fact that it was terminated, not because I was beligerant, but because the org's answers were not satisfactory.

7

Where do they say "start & stop 'study' = Bad Association?"

by InterestedOne in

i was wondering where (articles or books) the wt teaches that if you start a study & then stop, you become "bad association" and are treated almost like a df.

is this anywhere in the literature, or is it only an unwritten practice?

in the dictionary of jw-ese (http://www.cftf.com/dictionary/index.html#b), it says the practice has been discontinued, and i am wondering what an active jw would say about it if i asked.

InterestedOne

I was wondering where (articles or books) the WT teaches that if you start a study & then stop, you become "bad association" and are treated almost like a DF. Is this anywhere in the literature, or is it only an unwritten practice? In the dictionary of JW-ese (http://www.cftf.com/dictionary/index.html#B), it says the practice has been discontinued, and I am wondering what an active JW would say about it if I asked. Here is the definition:

bad association 1. Any non-Witness, or a JW who is obviously headed for trouble. Example: “It wouldn’t be right to go to a restaurant with our worldly neighbors; they’re bad association.” 2. The act of spending time with a worldly person. 3. obsolete A designation equivalent to disfellowshipped person but applied to an unbaptized individual who had begun to engage in congregation activities. (The practice was discontinued, apparently after encountering defamation lawsuits from such individuals.)

60

CO will sit in on my "study" this week: any suggestions?

by InterestedOne in

in my "study" with jw's, we're in ch 7 of the "bible teach" book.

we did pars 17-20 last week.

this week, the co is in town, and my conductor is having him sit in.

InterestedOne

@ peacefulpete - Please bear with me as I come to grips with the situation I have gotten into. I have been up front with her and the study conductor all along. I let them know it looks like a cult to me, and with each chapter of the "Bible study," I let the conductor know when I think the verses could be understood differently. The PO sat in on one of the studies, and when I was pointing out how the verse could be interpreted differently, he said, "at least you know how we see it." I said I'm fine with expressing my opinion and moving along in the study to become literate in their worldview. I never expressed any desire to -become- a JW. Ultimately, when I decide to stop the study, if my female friend decides to shun me simply for disagreeing with their interpretations (which supposedly they are "humble" enough to admit have been flawed in the past), that is on her. This whole "bad association" thing is news to me and I appreciate everyone warning me about it. It adds another dimension to the situation, and I'm still mentally processing it. I'm not some guy trying to mack some chick. I do find her attractive, but I also consider her a friend I care about. If possible, I want to be a voice of reason in her life. Even if she shuns me, I would let her know I'm available to talk about it intelligently if she ever has doubts.

60

CO will sit in on my "study" this week: any suggestions?

by InterestedOne in

in my "study" with jw's, we're in ch 7 of the "bible teach" book.

we did pars 17-20 last week.

this week, the co is in town, and my conductor is having him sit in.

InterestedOne

GOrwell wrote:

For Paragraph 22 and the physical resurrection of Jesus, you could look up John 2:18-23 and Luke 24:38, 39 with them

We had this discussion, and it was very revealing about how they will attempt to justify anything. I also pointed out John 10:17. Here is how it went:

John 10:17 - Since we had just learned that soul means human or animal life, it looked to me like Jesus was saying he would receive his human life back again. The conductor said Jesus was talking to Pharisees, so he wasn't telling them the full meaning of his statement. Supposedly, Jesus would later explain the meaning to his disciples more thoroughly, and that's how you get things like 1 Pet 3:18 or 1 Cor 15:45.

John 2:18-23 - Same explanation as above.

Luke 24:38,39 - According to my conductor, because you cannot see spirit creatures, they must take the form of human bodies to become visible. In that sense, the body the disciples saw was not a spirit. It was a real human body used by the spirit creature, Jesus, to show them that he was alive.

I think their explanations are lame, but I decided not to argue the point further and just move on.

60

CO will sit in on my "study" this week: any suggestions?

by InterestedOne in

in my "study" with jw's, we're in ch 7 of the "bible teach" book.

we did pars 17-20 last week.

this week, the co is in town, and my conductor is having him sit in.

InterestedOne

I have no illusions that I will change the conductor or the CO. However, I want to be able to say to my friend that I understand what her org says, have asked questions of its representatives, listened to their responses, and can say specifically why their responses are not satisfactory to me. She may not change, but I want to at least be able to clearly explain to her why I think her org is not as sensible as she thinks it is.

60

CO will sit in on my "study" this week: any suggestions?

by InterestedOne in

in my "study" with jw's, we're in ch 7 of the "bible teach" book.

we did pars 17-20 last week.

this week, the co is in town, and my conductor is having him sit in.

InterestedOne

Define what you hope to gain by this "study."

I'm going through it because I have a friend who is a JW. I've been trying to understand the real meaning behind the words she uses when we interact. Personally, I think the JW thing is no more legitimate than those tabloid papers with things like "batboy" on the cover. However, people do get duped by it, and I am trying to become literate not only in their doctrines but in their recruitment tactics - which require firsthand personal interaction. I wouldn't bother if there wasn't someone in my life directly affected by it. Now that I have been learning more of what JW's are about, as I go back over emails my friend and I have exchanged and the conversations we've had, the meaning behind her words is becoming more clear. Here are a couple of other threads where I explained myself when people asked why I am bothering to "study" the JW's.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/202139/1/Sayings-of-Everlasting-Life-heard-Nowhere-Else-but-in-JW-Organization

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/204074/1/Elder-wants-to-do-other-activities-with-me

60

CO will sit in on my "study" this week: any suggestions?

by InterestedOne in

in my "study" with jw's, we're in ch 7 of the "bible teach" book.

we did pars 17-20 last week.

this week, the co is in town, and my conductor is having him sit in.

InterestedOne

In my "study" with JW's, we're in ch 7 of the "Bible Teach" book. We did pars 17-20 last week. This week, the CO is in town, and my conductor is having him sit in. We will pick up at par 21. Can anyone suggest some ideas to help me cut through the haze?