Another question Chariklo - Do you mean she might have actually rehearsed what she was going to say to me? It kind of seemed like she was trying to force the conversation into talk of "hope for the future," etc. Do JW's actually rehearse before they have heavy conversations like this? Something odd did happen where she originally was going to attend the mid-week meeting tomorrow night, but all of a sudden -had- to go to the meeting before we had our conversation. Could there be a connection between her having to go to the meeting and our conversation? I can't imagine what that connection would be though.
InterestedOne
JoinedPosts by InterestedOne
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48
What would you say to a friend who claims to have experienced demons?
by InterestedOne inmy jw friend says she experienced demons act on their own behalf even before she became a jw.
she supposedly used to be an atheist, but her experience with demons led her to believe in the "spiritual realm" before she ever encountered jw's.
she says her ex-boyfriend & his friend used to do the ouija board & as a result have a demon following them around.
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48
What would you say to a friend who claims to have experienced demons?
by InterestedOne inmy jw friend says she experienced demons act on their own behalf even before she became a jw.
she supposedly used to be an atheist, but her experience with demons led her to believe in the "spiritual realm" before she ever encountered jw's.
she says her ex-boyfriend & his friend used to do the ouija board & as a result have a demon following them around.
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InterestedOne
Chariklo - I'm glad you said that about trotting out stock answers. She kept adding questions to the conversation like "do you think there are a lot of problems these days?" "Is there a logical reason why someone like Hitler would come to power?" "Do you think there will ever be a solution to the world's problems?" It was like a tape player. She even said things from the district convention that she just attended like, "do you think humans will ruin the earth?" I was internally freaked out by the random interjections of these questions but I tried not to lose my patience.
I do find it interesting that she claims to have had supernatural experiences like streetlamps dimming as they drove by and music turning on by itself. I don't know what to make of her story. I asked her if there have been any rigorous scientific studies that confirm this kind of thing. She said she didn't know but figured there must be some. I said I would be curious if there are any peer reviewed scientific journals that have published any evidence of the kind of phenomena she experienced.
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What would you say to a friend who claims to have experienced demons?
by InterestedOne inmy jw friend says she experienced demons act on their own behalf even before she became a jw.
she supposedly used to be an atheist, but her experience with demons led her to believe in the "spiritual realm" before she ever encountered jw's.
she says her ex-boyfriend & his friend used to do the ouija board & as a result have a demon following them around.
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InterestedOne
I had the discussion with my friend, and here is her experience:
Her ex-boyfriend used the ouija board and claims that a demon told him it would follow him through electricity. He claims that when he had a thought that the demon was bad, a light bulb exploded on its own. When my friend started dating him, she claims to have experienced supernatural phenomena with him. She claims they were driving down the highway and the streetlamps would dim as they passed them. She said she saw the dashboard lights flicker in the car and once the car almost went out of control because something was going haywire in the electrical system. Once they were sitting in his room and his computer music sequencer started playing something he had not written. She also said she observed something take control of his personality, and it would control her too.
After having these experiences and eventually a rough breakup with her boyfriend, a JW friend of hers started reading the Bible to her. She felt that what the JW was saying the Bible says about demons matched her experience. She continued her indoctrination with the JW's and has been a JW for about 8 years.
After I listened to her experiences, I said that although I cannot discount her personal experience, can she provide any reason why I should believe her general statement that "the world is run by demons?" She said, "I cannot make you believe in demons, nor do I want to try to make you. I can only tell you my personal experience." I said, "but you claimed that the world is run by demons. I'm not asking you to make me believe in demons. I'm asking why a rational person should believe the claim that the world is run by them." She then questioned what I mean by "rational," and then she accused me of being religious and dogmatic as if my "god" is some sort of universal rationality. I said I didn't realize she was going to make me have to define what I mean by rational. I said I could email her some information on logic, but she said she was not interested anyway. Instead, she started asking me questions like how could Hitler come to power, etc.
Toward the end of the conversation, she said we should just agree to disagree meaning that she bases her thinking on the "spiritual" and "the Bible," whereas I base my thinking on "logic" and "rationality." She was actually being very controlling and forcing that dichotomy. I said, "are you saying you are ok with believing things that violate ..." she interrupted me before I could say "rationality," and interjected "I will not be intimidated by you!" I was like "whoah, where is this coming from?" She then said, "I will not be forced to think according to your rules." I ended it by saying I will accept her suggestion that we "agree to disagree," but she can't expect it to not impact how I interact with her. I can sit down and have a conversation with someone who is willing to agree to certain definitions of words and abide by logic. However, if someone is going to abandon logic, I need to know they are abandoning it and adjust how I interact with them. I said I would make that adjustment with her. Basically, I don't think we will ever have a rational discussion, i.e. we're done.
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How should I respond to a JW friend? (Australia)
by summerinvincible insorry if this isn't the right place to post this - brand new member here.. i recently caught up with an old friend who is a jw.
she's been witnessing to me, and i've accepted all her handouts because i don't want to hurt her feelings.
but now she's asking me for my "thoughts" about what i've read so far.
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InterestedOne
summerinvincible - I went back and read through your posts too, and it is very good that you went back and checked them. Black Sheep is pointing out a dynamic that occurs in JW conversations. If you don't stick exactly to what you originally said, they will exploit any ambiguity in your current wording as an opportunity to let the conversation shift to a slightly different issue. Don't let her think she has answered your question by simply saying the WT predicted something. Predicted what? Black Sheep's last post is excellent. If she sent you material that said the WT thought Christ returned in 1874, when did they start predicting Christ would return in 1914? She originally claimed the WT and other churches predicted Christ would return in 1914. You asked which other churches. See if she can provide you with an answer.
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What would you say to a friend who claims to have experienced demons?
by InterestedOne inmy jw friend says she experienced demons act on their own behalf even before she became a jw.
she supposedly used to be an atheist, but her experience with demons led her to believe in the "spiritual realm" before she ever encountered jw's.
she says her ex-boyfriend & his friend used to do the ouija board & as a result have a demon following them around.
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InterestedOne
ixthis - She sees the JW's as the cure. Also, it was mainly her boyfriend who had the demon following him. When she lived with him, she said she experienced the demon act on it's own behalf. She saw leaving her boyfriend as the first step toward getting away from demonic influence. When she left him, a JW friend of hers indoctrinated her into the JW's. We have been discussing various topics over email, and she said "the world is run by demons," and briefly told me her background. She said she would tell me more about it in a phone conversation next week. I will mainly listen to what she says, but I was curious what a kind, yet skeptical person would say to her given that the JW ideas have merged with her personal experience.
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What would you say to a friend who claims to have experienced demons?
by InterestedOne inmy jw friend says she experienced demons act on their own behalf even before she became a jw.
she supposedly used to be an atheist, but her experience with demons led her to believe in the "spiritual realm" before she ever encountered jw's.
she says her ex-boyfriend & his friend used to do the ouija board & as a result have a demon following them around.
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InterestedOne
Black Sheep - Do you mean to say your wife burned her house down?
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What would you say to a friend who claims to have experienced demons?
by InterestedOne inmy jw friend says she experienced demons act on their own behalf even before she became a jw.
she supposedly used to be an atheist, but her experience with demons led her to believe in the "spiritual realm" before she ever encountered jw's.
she says her ex-boyfriend & his friend used to do the ouija board & as a result have a demon following them around.
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InterestedOne
RIF - Thank you for putting it into words so well. Good point about the distinction between firsthand vs. secondhand experiences.
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What would you say to a friend who claims to have experienced demons?
by InterestedOne inmy jw friend says she experienced demons act on their own behalf even before she became a jw.
she supposedly used to be an atheist, but her experience with demons led her to believe in the "spiritual realm" before she ever encountered jw's.
she says her ex-boyfriend & his friend used to do the ouija board & as a result have a demon following them around.
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InterestedOne
Thanks cantleave! I liked the experiment with the forces. After I have the conversation with my friend and let her tell me her experience, I might point her to this.
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What would you say to a friend who claims to have experienced demons?
by InterestedOne inmy jw friend says she experienced demons act on their own behalf even before she became a jw.
she supposedly used to be an atheist, but her experience with demons led her to believe in the "spiritual realm" before she ever encountered jw's.
she says her ex-boyfriend & his friend used to do the ouija board & as a result have a demon following them around.
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InterestedOne
That's a great video.
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What would you say to a friend who claims to have experienced demons?
by InterestedOne inmy jw friend says she experienced demons act on their own behalf even before she became a jw.
she supposedly used to be an atheist, but her experience with demons led her to believe in the "spiritual realm" before she ever encountered jw's.
she says her ex-boyfriend & his friend used to do the ouija board & as a result have a demon following them around.
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InterestedOne
My JW friend says she experienced demons act on their own behalf even before she became a JW. She supposedly used to be an atheist, but her experience with demons led her to believe in the "spiritual realm" before she ever encountered JW's. She says her ex-boyfriend & his friend used to do the ouija board & as a result have a demon following them around. We are going to have a phone conversation about it next week, and I am trying to think of what to ask or say to her. I think this demon stuff is one thing that ties her to the JW's. I think her prior experience has merged with the JW ideas, and she sees the world through that lense. I am skeptical about this sort of thing, and am wondering what would be a reasonable and not insulting thing to say to someone who bases a good portion of this belief in demons on personal experience. I'm not sure how to gently but firmly handle it. I'll be reading up on critical thinking, but was curious if anyone here has any advice.