I don't think friends/family would stop shunning. You would be guilty of the sin they call "forming a sect," so they would still shun you as far as I understand the JW rules.
InterestedOne
JoinedPosts by InterestedOne
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87
All of you should start a splinter JW group..
by fortbethel inforgive me if this comes off as harsh,.
i've read & read many posts here mostly very negative.
alot of you have family that have shunned & continue to shun.
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I really want to go JW but..
by fortbethel ini've studied with like 30 diff denominations.
i really feel jw is best for me.
i think it's the 144,000 part & the once a year get together when they pass around the sacrament that bothers me most.
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InterestedOne
fortbethel wrote:
You can't find anything good about it?
Just today a friend of mine interacted with some JW's who were doing some contracting work for her. She remarked how well-mannered they were and that she would rather deal with JW's than the other options in our neighborhood - we live in a not-so-nice part of a city. I was never a JW, but I studied with them for a little over 9 months because I became acquainted with a JW and wanted to familiarize myself with her beliefs. From what I have learned about their beliefs, I think the negative aspects of their worldview (e.g. believing the world is run by demons and that non-JW's are under the influence of satan) outweigh the positive aspects, such as being well-mannered.
You can develop good manners, love your family, and choose whether or not to bother with holidays without believing the world is run by demons or that non-JW's are under the influence of satan.
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Wording of "mentally diseased" press release - feedback?
by cedars inas some of you may know, i am working with trailerfitter and cantleave in helping amelia with her efforts to complain about the latest "apostates are mentally diseased" article.
she has an appointment with local police tomorrow afternoon, as she has lodged a complaint under the 'hate crimes' act.
it has been suggested that this issue may merit some media coverage, and with this in mind i have prepared a draft press release.
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InterestedOne
In the paragraph where you bring in the "mentally diseased" quote, I got sidetracked by the opening sentence because it brings in topics such as the history, the discredited beliefs, etc. and sounds a bit like an attack with word choice like "discovering the truth." The info about "mentally diseased" and contagious, etc. got kind of buried in the paragraph and lost its punch for me. The opening sentence of that paragraph might still be useful, but maybe it could be re-worked to avoid taking away from the power of the "mentally diseased" part. Since the title of the press release includes "mentally diseased," I think it would be great if you could find a way to draw the reader's attention to it more compellingly. I don't have any suggestions, and I have to run to work, but that's just what I noticed as a reader.
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For the board atheists....
by Jack C. inthis is a personal observation and certainly not representative of all atheists.
i enjoy discussions with folks of this persuasion; in general they appear well read and somewhat more educated than many believers.
as a group most atheists cringe and become insensed when discussing the existence of a deity with believers especially fundamentalists.
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InterestedOne
Jack C. wrote:
One of the criticisms I have is that many athiests cannot resist using the bible and religion as a strawman. I find this most evident in the comments and literature of R. Dawkins.
Regarding strawmen, the bible, and religion, here are some excerpts from The God Delusion:
"It is unfair to attack such an easy target. The God Hypothesis should not stand or fall with its most unlovely instantiation, Yahweh. . . . I am not attacking the particular qualities of Yahweh, or Jesus, or Allah, or any other specific god such as Baal, Zeus, or Wotan. Instead I shall define the God Hypothesis more defensibly: there exists a superhuman, supernatural intelligence who deliberately designed and created the universe and everything in it, including us. . . . Not surprisingly, since it is founded on local traditions of private revelation rather than evidence, the God Hypothesis comes in many versions. . . .
I decry supernaturalism in all its forms, and the most effective way to proceed will be to concentrate on the form most likely to be familiar to my readers -- the form that impinges most threateningly on all our societies. Most of my readers will have been reared in one or another of today's three 'great' monotheistic religions (four if you count Mormonism), all of which trace themselves back to the mythological patriarch Abraham, and it will be convenient to keep this family of traditions in mind throughout the rest of the book.
This is as good a moment as any to forestall an inevitable retort to the book, one that would otherwise -- as sure as night follows day -- turn up in a review: 'The God that Dawkins doesn't believe in is a God that I don't believe in either. I don't believe in an old man in the sky with a long beard.' That old man is an irrelevant distraction, and his beard is as tedious as it is long. Indeed, the distraction is worse than irrelevant. Its very silliness is calculated to distract attention from the fact that what the speaker really believes is not a whole lot less silly. I know you don't believe in an old bearded man sitting on a cloud, so let's not waste any more time on that. I am not attacking any particular version of God or gods. I am attacking God, all gods, anything and everything supernatural, wherever and whenever they have been or will be invented."
-- from chapter 2 of the The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins
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New light emerging?
by breakfast of champions inso, just recently ( i believe it was the september 1 wt) there was the thought that only the "incorrigibly wicked" will be destroyed at armageddon.
at the recent visit of the co, several times he brought up the idea that the "great crowd" will be far more people than just the 7m jws on earth today.
all my life i was raised thinking only jws would be the gc, and the other 99.9% of humanity would be fertilizer.
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InterestedOne
NVR2L8 - I asked my study conductor about the people who have never heard about JW's before the slaughter begins. He said that it is ok for people who have never heard about JW's to get killed in the slaughter because if they had had the right heart condition, Jehovah would have found a way to reach them with the message.
As for why bother knocking on all those doors, he said that we don't totally know the mind of Jehovah, but we know we are commanded to preach, so we do all we can to preach.
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New light emerging?
by breakfast of champions inso, just recently ( i believe it was the september 1 wt) there was the thought that only the "incorrigibly wicked" will be destroyed at armageddon.
at the recent visit of the co, several times he brought up the idea that the "great crowd" will be far more people than just the 7m jws on earth today.
all my life i was raised thinking only jws would be the gc, and the other 99.9% of humanity would be fertilizer.
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InterestedOne
If the WT or a CO is saying that Jehovah will spare some non-JW's, I don't see how that statement agrees with other things I've heard from JW's such as:
1. The JW organization is like Noah's ark, so you have to get into the ark to be spared.
2. If you are not doing all you can to tell people not to take blood transfusions, you yourself are bloodguilty. I don't think JW's teach that Jehovah spares people who are bloodguilty.
Saying the above two items while at the same time saying that Jehovah will spare some non-JW's sounds like a contradiction, i.e. nonsense talk.
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Watchtower admits Bible Teaches Trinity & hellfire!
by williamhconley inthe wathtower admits that by reading the bible alone without their help, people will believe in the trinity, hellfire, visible return of christ, heavenly hope for all christians etc etc.. here's the quote:.
"from time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of jehovah's people those, who, like the original satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude... they say that it is sufficient to read the bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home.
but, strangely, through such 'bible reading,' they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by christendom's clergy were teaching 100 years ago..." (watchtower, aug. 15, 1981, p. 29).. why would people revert back to christendoms doctrines unless the bible actually teaches them!.
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InterestedOne
Farkel - If you were referring to me, I agree. I am an idiot.
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Watchtower admits Bible Teaches Trinity & hellfire!
by williamhconley inthe wathtower admits that by reading the bible alone without their help, people will believe in the trinity, hellfire, visible return of christ, heavenly hope for all christians etc etc.. here's the quote:.
"from time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of jehovah's people those, who, like the original satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude... they say that it is sufficient to read the bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home.
but, strangely, through such 'bible reading,' they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by christendom's clergy were teaching 100 years ago..." (watchtower, aug. 15, 1981, p. 29).. why would people revert back to christendoms doctrines unless the bible actually teaches them!.
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InterestedOne
That quote is comical. However, to give them the benefit of the doubt, I figured they were implying that the doctrines of trinity, hellfire, etc. are so ingrained in our culture that if you just read the Bible on your own, you will read these doctrines into the text because you have heard them all your life. Therefore, they reason that you need the guidance of the supposedly unbiased "Bible Students" who will help you to shed your preconceptions. Not that I think they are unbiased, but I think they are trying to give that impression.
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Your top 5 most irritating doctrines/practices?
by cedars init's clear that virtually everyone on here is infuriated by wt teachings/doctrines/practices, but i would really like to know what is of most concern to people who frequent this forum.. here is my top 5, number 1 being the most significant/infuriating:.
the disfellowshipping practice - expanded to include family members (but not parents) who are old enough to leave home.
wrecks families and creates abject fear once people find out the truth about the organization.the blood issue - another unmerciful teaching, but one that costs lives.unquestioned authority of governing body - a handful of men make life-altering decisions as representatives of a larger group of people who they never see or speak to, and yet they demand unquestioning obedience on pain of being disfellowshipped.failed prophecy - the fulfilment of huge swathes of bible prophecy, including revelation, has been attributed to the events of the early 20th century, and the actions of a small group of men.two-tier christianity - faithful and discreet slave are anointed who go to heaven to whom ransom provisions apply directly, whereas remainder, or "great crowd" stay on earth and form a sub-class, only access benefits of ransom through fds.i realise that many of these issues are inter-related, but that's roughly how i would put them.
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InterestedOne
Either in 4 or 5, I would substitute their teaching that the world is doomed, that it will happen any day now, and the way they arrogantly and ignorantly portray humanity. I think it is one of the reasons why I detect a smug attitude from the JW's I have met. They write the present off as doomed and wait for an outside force to bring a perfect world in the future. In the meantime, they don't bother to engage themselves in advanced human activities. They just do the bare minimum to get by in "this old wicked system." Of course they will happily take advantage of the contributions "worldly" people have made as these worldly people work on solutions to various problems, but the JW's won't get involved. They just stand on the sidelines pointing out people's shortcomings and using it as material for their literature. Talk about irritating.
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What's behind the JW "stare"
by InterestedOne inin my interactions with jw males guarding the kh entrance or with the various males my study conductor would bring to our study (one i later found out was considered a "heavy," meaning he was supposedly really good at answering tough questions), i notice they stare intensely at me and i start fumbling my words.
in one case, i went to a different kh where no one knew me and got the same stare at the door.
is this stare deliberate, and if so, what is behind it?
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InterestedOne
I haven't eaten spinach in a long time, so that couldn't be it. In fact, there's nothing odd about my appearance to stare at. I'm a normal-looking American male. I do get the feeling that it's some kind of bullying tactic, like staring me down, but I was just wondering what others here have to say about it, maybe those who have manned the doors to the KH. On one hand, I remember hearing in the meetings that JW's are supposed to try to make newcomers feel welcome, but I was wondering what else is going on in the attendants' minds that makes them stare at people like that. Yes botchtowersociety, it is creepy, and throws me off balance. Come to think of it, it's kind of the way the literature throws me off balance too, like the dizzy feeling after being on a merry-go-round. I can't help but wonder if it's all deliberate.