Great illustration to prove the point.
Take Care
Dragon
kenpodragon
JoinedPosts by kenpodragon
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Jehovah's Witnesses goal of a Utopian World
by kenpodragon inwhen ever i visit with relatives that are still witnesses, i tend to hear one comment more then others.
that being, "we would really love to see your face in paradise with us.
" it might not always be in those exact words, but it is along the same thought.
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Jehovah's Witnesses goal of a Utopian World
by kenpodragon inwhen ever i visit with relatives that are still witnesses, i tend to hear one comment more then others.
that being, "we would really love to see your face in paradise with us.
" it might not always be in those exact words, but it is along the same thought.
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kenpodragon
You forgot to end that with ... "April fools!!!" ... isn't that the last verse in the Bible anyway? LOL
My thought
Dragon
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Jehovah's Witnesses goal of a Utopian World
by kenpodragon inwhen ever i visit with relatives that are still witnesses, i tend to hear one comment more then others.
that being, "we would really love to see your face in paradise with us.
" it might not always be in those exact words, but it is along the same thought.
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kenpodragon
When ever I visit with relatives that are still Witnesses, I tend to hear one comment more then others. That being, "we would really love to see your face in Paradise with us." It might not always be in those exact words, but it is along the same thought. That thought being, "unless you change your ways, you will not be in the paradise earth that Jehovah has promised." They do not say this to comfort me, or to encourage me, no they say this to scare me and make me feel bad enough to walk into a Kingdom Hall again. Does the idea of a Paradise earth sound bad though?
In all honestly, I spent a lot of my day dreaming as a Witness, thinking about the "Paradise Earth" we preached about. When times were rough, and did not look the way I wanted ... my mind would travel to this world. I would think of the societies views on it ....
"No war, no hate, no anger, no pain, and no death. People all working in a paradise world of gardens of beautiful nature. There would be cascading waterfalls, and beautiful people all living in joy and happiness"
... what I find interesting in this view now. Is that this is the same view of Utopia, as seen in Greek mythology.
Utopia : An ideally perfect place, especially in its social, political, and moral aspects
The idea that there is some place or time in the future when all will be better. Perhaps some Christians see this in heaven, whereas Witnesses pictured it here on earth. They took on the views of the Greeks, that that place would be perfect in all respects. It would be full of love and correctness of every kind and characteristics. So to spend the day, or to work your way out of hard times with a positive thought, would seem like a wonder thought, right?
Well if you have ever studied Greek, you will know that often the definition of the word, is not the whole meaning. Sometimes they show a word to mean something, and in the meaning of the word, combined with the meaning, is the irony. For you see "Utopia" actual means "no place." Thus the meaning, "a perfect world is no where, or unattainable."
So when I am with my Witness relatives and they make a comment like "we would love to see you in Paradise." My favorite thing to say to them is, "yes, that does sound like a Utopian world ... doesn't it" Which in their mind sounds like "Yes, that sounds like a great and wonderful world ... doesn't it " In reality though, I am saying. "That does sound like a place of fiction that is no where ... doesn't it." Perhaps it is a little thought that means something to me, and gets them to thinking they have me thinking about Jehovah again. In both cases, they are right ... just not the thoughts they think I am having.
It is nice to have a positive view of the future. I have one myself, but dwelling on a thought that is not going to happen ... is a waste of time. The world is the paradise you make it now, and waiting for someone to fix it, makes no sense. Do not waste your time thinking all will get better tomorrow, make it better today. When people use this thought to work with your mind, think next time what they are really saying.
Utopia : "No place"
... and think "do you want to go no where with them, or some where with reality?"
Just my thoughtEdited by - kenpodragon on 28 September 2002 19:25:59
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"Were any of them Witnesses?"
by kenpodragon init was a typical night at the local kingdom hall.
people were coming in and visiting, looking for seats and laying down publications to mark where they would sit.
people were shaking hands, and the conversation was mixed.
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kenpodragon
plmkrzy
I agree. They brought it to the attention of the public, and started their path to healing. Now it is time to make changes so that no future children of any religion, will ever have to go through something like this again.
My thought
Dragon
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"Were any of them Witnesses?"
by kenpodragon init was a typical night at the local kingdom hall.
people were coming in and visiting, looking for seats and laying down publications to mark where they would sit.
people were shaking hands, and the conversation was mixed.
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kenpodragon
The WTS is far from equaling the Catholic Church in numbers, there is no comparison
I hope this does not come out sounding mad or rude, as that is not what I mean. I just think the key is the word "comparison" ... I think we need to stop comparing and should see all abuse victims as a group that needs help. Whether they are Ex-Jw, Catholic, Black, White or anything. In that true respect ... there should be no comparisons for assistance.
My thought
Dragon
"Show support and love for all"
Edited by - kenpodragon on 28 September 2002 16:15:22
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"Were any of them Witnesses?"
by kenpodragon init was a typical night at the local kingdom hall.
people were coming in and visiting, looking for seats and laying down publications to mark where they would sit.
people were shaking hands, and the conversation was mixed.
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kenpodragon
Kelsey
I do have to say, I did wonder why they did not march on Washington DC and give a speech from the Capital Building steps on how Congress needs to address the problem of abuse at the hands of religion. The Catholics would have been addressed too. I just happen to love our government and legal system and have done many things to use it to champion a cause. Focus on the laws!!! That is the real key.
My thought
Dragon
"Who is proud to live in America where one voice can be heard, and one voice can make a difference"
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"Were any of them Witnesses?"
by kenpodragon init was a typical night at the local kingdom hall.
people were coming in and visiting, looking for seats and laying down publications to mark where they would sit.
people were shaking hands, and the conversation was mixed.
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kenpodragon
I still think the secret to all change in this matter, is to seek to work the system to the abuse victims advantage. Focus on the changing of laws, and you will stop groups like religions from harming their followers. Our bodies are out of the religion now, did we take our minds too? Love does not limit itself to just one select group.
My thought
Dragon
"Help all the children"
Edited by - kenpodragon on 28 September 2002 15:14:39
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Crossing Over
by kelsey007 inanger, hate and venting are parts of normal human emotion.
these are feelings that most all of us have experienced after having left the jws.
such forums as this one i am sure have helped many to cross over to getting beyond the jw experience.
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kenpodragon
Focus on changing the laws to favor the people and not the religions. Put a "watchdog" organization in place that looks after children, when related to all religions. Also, start a legal fund for victims with packets on what changes need to be made in there local area. Focusing on only one religion is looking at a large problem with select blinders. Child abuse in the name of god is a huge problem, that needs as much support as can gather.
My thought
Dragon
"Help all the children"
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What part of the bible is most disturbing to you?
by crownboy infor me, it's actually the book of job, which happens to be one of my favourite books.
the way job steadfastly maintains his innocence, and questions god, as well as rebuffs the three comforters (who proffer arguments along the lines of mordern apologist, although in this book they are "bad guys" ) made him my hero of sorts throughout most of the book.
if most people today questioned god the way he did, they would probably be condemned for it.
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kenpodragon
Genesis through Revelations ... that is why I do not own one anymore.
My thought
Dragon
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"Were any of them Witnesses?"
by kenpodragon init was a typical night at the local kingdom hall.
people were coming in and visiting, looking for seats and laying down publications to mark where they would sit.
people were shaking hands, and the conversation was mixed.
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kenpodragon
It was a typical night at the local Kingdom Hall. People were coming in and visiting, looking for seats and laying down publications to mark where they would sit. People were shaking hands, and the conversation was mixed. This couple was talking about their new grandchild, this other was talking about an experience in field service and then another was speaking about a topic in the news. As I walked along, I entered into a group of men speaking about a major storm in the east. As we spoke, someone mentioned that over 500 people had died. I thought that was terrible, and was shocked with the next statement made by a man in the group, "were any of them Witnesses?"
That was it, wasn't it! No matter what happened in the world. Whether it was a earthquake in our own town or a land slide in India, we heard one thing each time, "were any of them Witnesses?" It was so common, that many times I never gave it a second thought. It was just normal! Did this show love of neighbor, like they mentioned all the time from the platform, or did it show a "limited love" for only those to whom we thought had God's favor?
In my life I have learned that life means something, not based on religion, but on the fact that everyone has a value. It does not matter what God they worship or what land they live in, it just matter that they breath and exist on this planet with us. They suffer the same whether their skin is black, white or reddish ... they cry the same tears whether they are doing them in the comfort of Buddha, Jehovah, Jesus or Spirit. In all, their heart beats and they breath the same air as me and you. It might sound so simple, but it can be a hard habit to break, what habit is that?
The habit of thinking in a group or click in this world. To think that a certain group has more value then others, or to think that you should have more empathy for a group then for another. I personally see some traits of this in me still, and I do my best to correct them when they surface. I want the world to know in my actions, that I am not some snob who feels a certain group deserves special treatment. I let them know this through my actions in my new life.
Now some may say, "but I do have a passion for certain causes, they are personal to me." I understand this, and it makes sense. I wonder though, are their limits in your passion based on a past life experience, or would it help to allow your eyes to get wider open to see what many other people could benefit from you compassion to help? Just a question we can ask ourselves, and answer on our own.
As I set their in the evening of my live and watched the news of the world events. It came to a story about 40 people killed in a country I have never been, with people I had never met, and I did not think "I wonder if they were this faith or this color." No, all I could think about was the pain they must have felt and the emptiness their families probably felt at their loss. No longer is my compassion and feelings tainted with the thought "Were they Witnesses!!" No, it is enlightened with the love that "I know they are human beings" that loved, lived and now they are no more.
A tear without judgment forms and falls from the heart that is no longer cold.
My thought
Dragon