They are very discouraging and hurtful too.
My thought
Dragon
Edited by - kenpodragon on 9 October 2002 23:1:52
kenpodragon
JoinedPosts by kenpodragon
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39
The pain of false accusations
by kelsey007 inalanf posted in another thread: .
"i want to put the board on notice that this "kelsey007" person is a jw in good standing (possibly even several jws posting under the same handle) and is on this board only to stir up trouble.
take a close look at his posts.
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Comments from Ray Franz re Bill Bowen
by Amazing ini talked at length with ray franz this afternoon regarding the following comments by bill bowen: ray franz supports the wt policy on child abuse.
he is the author of the two eye witness rule as well as the slander issue that prevents anyone from warning another of child abuse in the congregation.
it is interesting that wt is willing to fight to the last man standing for a policy that in large part was founded by their biggest apostate.
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kenpodragon
You know what is ironic. In Iraq all the people hate Saddam, but because they in-fight so much and can not get a clear line of attack, they fail and now they are a huge mess with no hope. Weird, that is on the news all the time ... and yet no one learns. I think BB and all could pay a little more attention and not turn on themselves, and people who support their cause. Delusions of Grandeur, it is self-defeating.
My thought
Dragon
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Bill Bowen, you are no Ray Franz............
by IslandWoman in"i know ray franz and you are nothing like him.
" in integrity you are much smaller, in writing ability compared to him you fail miserably, in love for truth you do not compare.. bill bowen, you will never be as great a man as ray franz!
because you act before you think!
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kenpodragon
I do not agree with much of anything Bill Bowen does and I think he makes to many mistakes based on emotion, but I think this thread is in bad taste. He does have a heart and he is human, and deserves better then such a personal attack.
My thought
Dragon
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148
Comments from Ray Franz re Bill Bowen
by Amazing ini talked at length with ray franz this afternoon regarding the following comments by bill bowen: ray franz supports the wt policy on child abuse.
he is the author of the two eye witness rule as well as the slander issue that prevents anyone from warning another of child abuse in the congregation.
it is interesting that wt is willing to fight to the last man standing for a policy that in large part was founded by their biggest apostate.
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kenpodragon
Doesn't Mr. Franz have the right to feel, however he wants. Who cares if people do not agree, does that mean he has to be attacked for it. I don't agree with a lot that silentlambs does, but if someone attacked me for it. I would agree with even less, not more.
My thought
Dragon
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Why is Bill Bowen Attacking Us?
by IslandWoman inyes, why is he attacking ray franz, hillary_step and from what i've heard on this board also reinhard lengtat?.
why does he make accusatory statements and then when called on for proof calls us lazy for not finding our own proof?.
if anyone here understands this bizarre behavior please enlighten me.
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kenpodragon
Maybe Mr. Franz is just very wise in his older years and understand ...
"There is sometimes wisdom in silence"
... by not saying anything, he does not have to attach his name to anything and risk having his name harmed more then it already is, by the hate Witnesses have of him. He has "fought the good fight", let old solders retire in peace and not take them out to parade around new ideas.
My thought
Dragon
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9
Loose Cannons
by ballistic inhave you ever noticed that when bullets start flying, you can get so involved in the action, you forget the broader picture.
you can end up shooting yourself in the foot, or worse shooting someone on your own team.
especially when you have a loaded gun and plenty of ammunition, and are trigger happy.
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kenpodragon
In duck hunting we do something called "range of fire", which is when you walk across a field with other hunters. You know where you can and can not shot. That way you do not accidentally kill your buddy, when your targets were the ducks. If someone I hunt with, can not respect this concept. I hunt with someone else. Not worth risking my life for ducks.
My thought
Dragon
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20
Why is Bill Bowen Attacking Us?
by IslandWoman inyes, why is he attacking ray franz, hillary_step and from what i've heard on this board also reinhard lengtat?.
why does he make accusatory statements and then when called on for proof calls us lazy for not finding our own proof?.
if anyone here understands this bizarre behavior please enlighten me.
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kenpodragon
Kind of like shooting yourself in the foot to me. I will say though, that consuming yourself with negative anger can make it very hard for people to understand you. Plus, your actions can be very confusing and detrimental to your cause. I heard once that BB was a candle maker, and I am not trying to undermine him on that. Face it though, this might be an example of someone biting off more then they can chew. Hearing all those horror stories can eat at your heart and make you lash out wrong. I know a local child psychologist, who says that she has to work all the time to keep it from getting personal. That way she keeps the child's best interest first and her head clear.
I would like to add. Recently a post was made to show what states do not have laws that protect children from religions abuse. That abuse being, not requiring religions to report cases. Has anyone written their congressmen about this. If not, please do. I have written mine and also my state senators. Angry outburst about the religion are not going to be enough to protect the children. Please, think about working the laws. We are a country of laws.
My thought
Dragon
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10
What an eccentric performance
by kenpodragon inone of my favorite movies of all time is "monty python and the holy grail.
" i enjoy this movie for many reasons, but most of all for it's satire on society.
one of my favorite scenes, and i should warn you that i know them all, is when king arthur walks up to peasants in the field and tries to explain that he is king of the britons.
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kenpodragon
"Always look on the bright side of life!" (Great now I am going to be humming that all day) LOL
Take Care
Dragon
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Are your listening to experts?
by kenpodragon inyears ago i had a friend tell me that he hated sushi.
he said that it tasted terrible, and it made him sick.
he then went into, how eating something that is raw is terrible for you and is a risk to your health.
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kenpodragon
Years ago I had a friend tell me that he hated Sushi. He said that it tasted terrible, and it made him sick. He then went into, how eating something that is raw is terrible for you and is a risk to your health. His main point in the matter, was that something he did not like should be something I do not like either. He was just one man though, and I knew that Sushi was liked by many. So I had to ask myself, should I rely on one man's opinion or look into this further?
The thing is, I think we might see this kind of question as making sense with food, yet we do not feel the same with religion. I can not count how many times when I was in the "Witnesses" that people would explain to me how they knew so much about "other religions" or "evolution" and felt no need to learn more. How did they know about these things? Well of course it was not from spending time in libraries or researching with personal interviews. No, they were experts because of the books provided by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society told them what they needed to know. Why does this seem odd?
Well when I went back to college, after leaving the religion, I had to do some pretty large reports. In doing so, a few covered subjects like evolution. So I would go into the library and find this subject and see 100's of books, and ever books on these books, and updates and reports on the on going research. In a short time, I learned that no one book could ever give this subject a fair representation. Then there is the subject of world religions. I thought I knew what it meant do be a Buddhist, Catholic, and what it meant to be a Pagan. Yet when I searched all of the worlds religions properly, I saw I had no clue what it was all about. Soon, I found that in my research of evolution and religion. There were some truths that meant something to me and my own person opinion formed within me. Do I share it with others in a condensed manner and expect them to believe it though? No, you do the research and figure it out for yourself. Why do I see it this way?
Well think of the example of Sushi. My friend that told me about this, really wanted me to stay away from it for some reason. I did for awhile, but then one day I was with a group of people and they had some. They convinced me to have some and did the ordering for me. They showed me how to mix the Wasabi with the Soy Sauce and dip in the fish and savor the flavor. Want to know what I thought? Well I thought, "I love this stuff, this is delicious!!" Yet, had I listened to my friend condensed view of his opinion on Sushi my whole life, I would have never known how wonderful it was.
To me, to say you know about something and then to teach that to others. Well that is a little bit of arrogance, when you have only read a small book by people who were determined to disprove it. A real teacher will research and research for years, and even then. They will teach with the idea that you need to prove this to yourself and not take my word for it.
To me, the greatest part about being an adult, is the education you can allow yourself to have.
My thought
Dragon
Edited by - kenpodragon on 9 October 2002 16:2:24
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What an eccentric performance
by kenpodragon inone of my favorite movies of all time is "monty python and the holy grail.
" i enjoy this movie for many reasons, but most of all for it's satire on society.
one of my favorite scenes, and i should warn you that i know them all, is when king arthur walks up to peasants in the field and tries to explain that he is king of the britons.
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kenpodragon
One of my favorite movies of all time is "Monty Python and the Holy Grail." I enjoy this movie for many reasons, but most of all for it's satire on society. One of my favorite scenes, and I should warn you that I know them all, is when King Arthur walks up to peasants in the field and tries to explain that he is King of the Britons. The peasant mentions that they did not know they had a king and thought they were a 'autonomous collective' and proceeds to argue. In the end, he argues to the point that he feels he proves his point when he is attacked by Arthur and yells 'now we see the violence inherent in the system' and feels that his point is made. So why do I find this so funny?
Well for one thing, have you ever told someone you did not want to fight or that you wanted to be peaceful, only to have them push and push. They push so hard that they end up bringing out something you do not want to deal with, and you say something you regret. Then they turn and say, "look you are phony, none of what you say matters!" They feel like they brought something out in you, without seeing the responsibility they held in that regard. Almost like they "predicted the outcome" and then did everything in their power to make sure they were right. Does this happen on a larger scale.
Well recently I got a call from a relative still in the Jehovah's Witnesses, telling me about how recently the society has been teaching something. What is it? Well they are saying that all this new aggression against them by outside forces is a fulfillment of prophesy. So basically, they are taking something that is happening, and seeing only the results of their own actions and not the actions they did themselves. How odd is this?
When I was a Witness, I remember this one family that was so strict that they never hardly even let their children see the light of day. The father always said that they were protecting them from harm and saw even the Witness children as bad association. So one day I went and talked to the man and tried to convince him of letting his children go to a 'get together', to which he was very angry. In the end though, he let them go. The children went and because they had never been with other children, they were very active and ran around having a blast. One of them tripped and feel and got a bloody nose. One of the 'sisters' fixed him up, but when the father came and picked up his children. Well he blew up at them and said, "this is why you never do this, you are doing nothing more then getting into more trouble." Basically, he did what the two other paragraphs mentioned above. He pushed something, then helped to make it happen through aggression, and then blamed everyone but himself. Nice little package, isn't it.
So when I got this call from my relatives, telling me that the prophesy was having a fulfillment. I was amazed at the lack of responsibility shown by the religion. To think they can break laws, cause hardships on people, and do wrong on to others. Then to come back and say "I'm being repressed" is the height of all arrogance. Have you thought about it this way, when people call from the religion with their warnings? If not, give it some thought and you will get a very odd picture of people pushing you and pushing you, only to be shocked when you finally struck back. It makes no sense, that a persons or organizations wrong doing would fulfill a prophesy by justice being soot from the victims.
I think the Grail said it best, when thinking about such a odd event. 'What an eccentric performance'
My thought
Dragon
Edited by - kenpodragon on 9 October 2002 14:9:4