Posts by aqwsed12345

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51
Theocratic Warfare and Taqiyya
by aqwsed12345 in
1. watchtower
2. beliefs
the concept of strategic deception exists in several religious and ideological contexts.

in this article, we will explore and compare the theocratic warfare doctrine of the watchtower society and taqiyya in islam.

both concepts have parallels in their mechanisms of permitting deception for religious purposes but differ significantly in their application and historical roots.. 1. theocratic warfare: the "rahab method".
aqwsed12345
@slimboyfat
Claim: The introduction of nomina sacra into Christian manuscripts aligns with the alleged decision to discontinue the use of the Tetragrammaton.
The nomina sacra (e.g., ΚΣ for κύριος, ΘΣ for θεός) may be a Christian scribal innovation, intended to show reverence for sacred names in scripture. However, this does not support the idea that κύριος replaced YHWH at that time. By the time nomina sacra were used, the LXX tradition already rendered YHWH as κύριος. The uniform Christian use of κύριος in LXX manuscripts is strong evidence that it was the earlier, standard translation. There is no transitional manuscript showing a removal of the Tetragrammaton and its replacement with κύριος. If this were a deliberate change, such a transition would leave clear traces, yet no such evidence exists. Furthermore Pietersma and Tov argue that early manuscripts where the Tetragrammaton appears (e.g., in paleo-Hebrew) reflect later Jewish recensional activities, not the original Old Greek translation. The Kaige recension supports this: It was an effort by Jewish scribes to revise Greek texts to align with the proto-Masoretic Hebrew text, including the reinsertion of the divine name. So even the introduction of nomina sacra is chronologically and textually distinct from the use of κύριος as a rendering for YHWH. The lack of any transitional evidence undermines the claim of a systematic removal of the Tetragrammaton.
And by the way, if it was the Christians, why does the Watchtower cite Shabbat 116a from the Talmud, suggesting that it was done by the Jews?
Claim: Frank Shaw argues in The Earliest Non-Mystical Jewish Use of IAW (2014) that ΙΑΩ was widely used among ordinary Jews in the 1st century.
While Shaw’s work highlights that ΙΑΩ was known and used in certain Jewish contexts, this evidence does not prove it was the original or predominant rendering of YHWH in the LXX. The use of ΙΑΩ is largely regional (especially in Egypt) and primarily appears in Jewish magical texts and onomastica (lists of divine names). These sources are distinct from the formal translation tradition of the LXX. Transliteration of YHWH as ΙΑΩ served a different function, particularly in mystical and magical contexts. Manuscripts using ΙΑΩ are isolated and fragmentary. They represent regional or liturgical variants, not the broader Greek Jewish tradition. In contrast, the majority of surviving LXX manuscripts and Christian quotations consistently use κύριος. Philo (1st century CE), a prominent Hellenistic Jew, does not use ΙΑΩ in his works. Instead, he adheres to the reverence for the divine name by substituting it symbolically or with κύριος. If ΙΑΩ were widespread among Jews as Shaw suggests, it is notable that Philo does not reference or use it. So Shaw’s assertion for ΙΑΩ as “widespread” among ordinary Jews fails to account for its contextual and regional limitations. It does not challenge the evidence that κύριος was the standard and dominant Greek rendering of YHWH in the LXX tradition.
Claim: Howard and Trobisch argue that the removal of the Tetragrammaton and its replacement with κύριος contributed to Christological "ambiguities", paving the way for Trinitarian theology.
This claim is speculative and ignores key historical and textual evidence. The translation of YHWH as κύριος in the LXX occurred before the emergence of Christianity. Jewish translators rendered YHWH as κύριος because it was the Greek equivalent of "Adonai," which Jews substituted orally for YHWH. This Jewish practice, rooted in reverence for the divine name, directly influenced the LXX. The New Testament authors inherited the LXX tradition where YHWH was consistently rendered as κύριος. The high Christology of the NT arises not from confusion but from a deliberate identification of Jesus with YHWH. For example Romans 10:13 cites Joel 2:32, applying "whoever calls on the name of YHWH" to Jesus as κύριος; Philippians 2:11 declares that every tongue will confess Jesus as κύριος, echoing Isaiah 45:23, where κύριος refers to YHWH. If the Tetragrammaton had been systematically removed to accommodate evolving Christology, we would expect transitional manuscripts or explicit evidence of such a decision. None exists. Early Christian manuscripts uniformly use κύριος, reflecting the inherited LXX tradition. There is no evidence that Christians replaced the Tetragrammaton; they simply adopted the Greek text as it stood. The alleged ambiguity between “Lord God” and “Lord Christ” is a theological interpretation, not a textual fact. The NT authors intentionally identified Jesus as κύριος (YHWH), not out of confusion but as a bold theological assertion. Jewish criticisms of early Christians (e.g., accusations of idolatry) focused on their worship of Jesus, not on their supposed misuse of the divine name. The same word was used to refer to Jesus ("the Lord," κύριος) and even the Holy Spirit (e.g., 2 Corinthians 3:17). There is no rule or reference in the New Testament suggesting that κύριος had one meaning for YHWH and a separate meaning for Jesus. If the use of the nomina sacra means that YHWH or ΙΑΩ originally stood in place of ΚΣ, that does not support your theological agenda either, since Christ is called ΚΣ the same way in the earliest MSS, but on what basis could you claim that YHWH or ΙΑΩ only appeared where God the Father is called ΚΣ? Based on these facts, we have only three options:
1. If the NT authors did not consider the possibility that readers might “confuse” YHWH with Jesus, they wrote with a level of carelessness that fundamentally undermines the inspiration and sacredness of their writings.
2. If the NT authors aimed to deceive intentionally, then the entire issue would be meaningless.
3. If the NT authors wrote carefully and conscientiously without intending to mislead, the logical conclusion based on the evidence is that they also affirmed Jesus' deity.
If the writers adhered to Watchtower theology, why were they not concerned about someone "confusing" Jesus with the Lord?
The Smoking Gun?
You cannot give a satisfactory answer to the question: Who made the decision to replace YHWH (or ΙΑΩ) with κύριος? Even more specifically: Who was the “Caliph Uthman” of the “apostate” (=proto-orthodox) Christianity who ordered the standardization of the NT and, under this heading, the falsification of the text?
The answer lies not in a conspiracy but in the Jewish translation process itself. The Jewish translators of the LXX rendered YHWH as κύριος because it reflected the Jewish oral practice of substituting "Adonai" for YHWH, and it was a theological choice to preserve reverence for the divine name. There was no systematic removal: The use of alternatives like ΙΑΩ or paleo-Hebrew YHWH reflects later recensional efforts to reintroduce the divine name in specific Jewish contexts. Christians inherited the LXX as it stood, with κύριος already in place. There is no evidence of tampering or conspiracy to replace the Tetragrammaton.
So there is no “smoking gun” simply because there was no conspiracy. The evidence overwhelmingly supports that κύριος was the original and standard Greek rendering of YHWH, rooted in Jewish translation practices.
51
Theocratic Warfare and Taqiyya
by aqwsed12345 in
1. watchtower
2. beliefs
the concept of strategic deception exists in several religious and ideological contexts.

in this article, we will explore and compare the theocratic warfare doctrine of the watchtower society and taqiyya in islam.

both concepts have parallels in their mechanisms of permitting deception for religious purposes but differ significantly in their application and historical roots.. 1. theocratic warfare: the "rahab method".
aqwsed12345
@slimboyfat
While it is true that manuscripts containing paleo-Hebrew or ΙΑΩ for the divine name exist, the evidence is not exclusively against κύριος. Pietersma hypothesizes that the earliest Greek translators used κύριος to render YHWH as a standard translation, primarily due to linguistic and religious constraints. The translators were adapting the Hebrew Scriptures for Greek-speaking Jewish communities. This aligns with Jewish avoidance of pronouncing the Tetragrammaton and substituting it orally with "Adonai" (Lord)—a practice which naturally influenced written translations. While fragments of pre-Christian LXX manuscripts (e.g., from Qumran or Naḥal Ḥever) show variations in how the Tetragrammaton is rendered (e.g., ΙΑΩ, paleo-Hebrew script), there is no conclusive evidence that the use of κύριος was absent. The Dead Sea Scrolls show a variety of practices, including the use of ΙΑΩ and paleo-Hebrew YHWH, indicating diversity rather than uniformity in rendering the divine name. The Kaige Recension is critical here. Anneli Aejmelaeus highlights that revisions such as Kaige aimed for extreme literalism and fidelity to the proto-Masoretic text. This revision likely replaced or revised earlier Greek renderings, including where κύριος had been standard. Therefore, the absence of κύριος in select texts does not prove it was never used; it merely points to alternative strategies of transmission.
Critics often argue that the development of contracted forms (κύριος → ΚΣ) is a distinct Christian phenomenon. However, this does not imply that κύριος was not the original Greek rendering. The transition to the contracted forms was a later scribal practice designed to reverence sacred terms, building on earlier traditions. The absence of an "uncontracted κύριος" from specific third to second-century BCE manuscripts is an argument from silence. Such a conclusion does not negate the plausible use of κύριος in the earliest Septuagint traditions. A critical point is that the Greek Old Testament tradition as we have it overwhelmingly uses κύριος. As Martin Rösel notes, the Septuagint translators appear to have adopted κύριος to denote the unique sovereignty of God over all creation, distinguishing Him from pagan gods.
The claim that the Septuagint did not originally use κύριος oversimplifies the situation. The textual history of the Greek Bible reveals diverse strategies for handling the divine name. The Kaige recension, highlighted in Anneli Aejmelaeus' analysis, was an effort to revise Greek translations to align more closely with the Hebrew proto-Masoretic text. This revision evidences a deliberate attempt to "correct" earlier renderings. As Angelini and Nagel note, manuscripts display ΙΑΩ, paleo-Hebrew YHWH, and dots or blanks. This diversity supports the conclusion that there was no single strategy across all Jewish communities during the pre-Christian period. However, this does not disprove the early adoption of κύριος by certain Jewish translators in Alexandria. Later revisions, including Theodotion’s work, retained and standardized κύριος where older Greek texts may have exhibited alternatives. Traces of this standardization appear even in New Testament quotations, suggesting a pre-Christian precedent for using κύριος.
Theological objections to equating Jesus with YHWH (κύριος) appear to influence modern critiques. However the Septuagint translators' use of κύριος reflected Jewish reverence for YHWH, avoiding its direct pronunciation. This theological choice aligns with the oral practice of substituting "Adonai." The New Testament authors' identification of Jesus as κύριος draws on this pre-existing LXX tradition. The deliberate choice to attribute YHWH's titles to Jesus demonstrates the continuity of κύριος as a divine title rooted in Greek translations. Rösel highlights that the LXX's use of κύριος reflects a theological universalism, portraying God as the Κύριος tēs oikoumenēs (Lord of the whole world). This broader significance aligns with the emerging universalistic monotheism of Hellenistic Judaism.
Claim: ΙΑΩ was the original form of the divine name in the Septuagint (LXX), supported by fragments of Leviticus and its use in onomastica (name lists).
While ΙΑΩ does appear in some Greek manuscripts and onomastica (lists of transliterations of divine names), its limited textual presence does not make it the original or standard practice for the Old Greek (OG) translation of the LXX. These were transliterations of the divine name for specific purposes, often for Jewish and pagan magical contexts, not translations. Their usage reflects how the name sounded phonetically (transliteration of YHWH into Greek), but it does not indicate widespread adoption in scriptural texts. These fragments are isolated occurrences and likely represent either a regional textual tradition (such as in Egypt, where Jewish magical texts were common), or a liturgical revision to preserve the divine name for reverence. Crucially, the majority of extant LXX manuscripts and all post-Christian LXX texts uniformly use κύριος to render YHWH. If ΙΑΩ were the original, we would expect to see its widespread transmission in Greek biblical texts, yet this is absent. Pietersma's hypothesis explains this better: κύριος was the standard and earliest choice for translating YHWH, while isolated transliterations like ΙΑΩ emerged later as part of recensional efforts or regional variants.
Claim: The fragment of Leviticus with ΙΑΩ is of "good Septuagintal quality," indicating that ΙΑΩ was original.
Textual "quality" (?) does not necessarily determine originality; it indicates how faithfully a manuscript reflects its Vorlage (source text). A well-translated fragment containing ΙΑΩ could still be part of a later revisionist tradition. The Kaige recension and other textual corrections were efforts to bring the LXX closer to the Hebrew Masoretic Text (MT). The reintroduction of the Tetragrammaton or transliterations like ΙΑΩ reflects this revisionist tendency. Pietersma and Emanuel Tov elsewhere emphasize that textual witnesses with ΙΑΩ are not definitive proof of its universal use. Instead, they indicate textual diversity, which arose over time. For example, Papyrus Fouad 266 (1st century BCE) contains the Tetragrammaton in paleo-Hebrew amidst Greek text. This demonstrates reverence but also suggests later liturgical insertions rather than original translation practice. Thus, while ΙΑΩ has a role in the textual tradition, it is better understood as a regional variant or scribal revision.
Claim: Κύριος was introduced only in the 2nd century CE.
This claim is speculative and lacks textual support. The Christian adoption of κύριος does not mean that it originated with Christians. The use of κύριος as the Greek equivalent of "Adonai" predates Christianity. Jewish reverence for the Tetragrammaton led to oral substitution with Adonai, which the Greek-speaking Jewish translators rendered as κύριος. Philo of Alexandria (1st century CE) confirms this. He avoids writing the Tetragrammaton but refers to it symbolically and reverentially, indicating the accepted Jewish practice of substituting κύριος. The nomina sacra (contracted forms of κύριος and θεός) emerged among Christians, but these reflect a later scribal tradition, not the original translation. By the time of the New Testament (1st century CE), κύριος was already the standard LXX equivalent for YHWH. NT authors consistently quote the LXX using κύριος where the Hebrew MT has YHWH. In conclusion, κύριος predates Christianity and reflects a long-established Jewish translation practice.
Claim: Textual variants between κύριος and θεός in the NT suggest the original presence of the divine name.
The textual variants cited (e.g., Acts 1:24, 1 Cor 2:16, Jude 5) reflect scribal harmonization and theological interpretation, not the removal of the divine name. Early NT manuscripts consistently use κύριος and θεός, which aligns with the LXX tradition of rendering YHWH as κύριος. There is no evidence of ΙΑΩ or paleo-Hebrew YHWH in NT manuscripts. George Howard’s argument that the divine name was originally present in NT quotations lacks manuscript evidence. The NT’s consistent use of κύριος reflects its reliance on the LXX. For example, in Philippians 2:11, Paul applies Isaiah 45:23 (LXX) to Jesus: "Every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord (κύριος), to the glory of God the Father." Here, κύριος is clearly understood in the YHWH sense, reflecting the LXX tradition. The textual variants cited are secondary developments and not indicative of an earlier presence of the Tetragrammaton.
Claim: Philo refers to the divine name, which some argue he derived from LXX copies containing the Tetragrammaton.
Philo's symbolic references to the divine name are consistent with Jewish tradition to avoid pronouncing YHWH. He does not quote the LXX using ΙΑΩ; instead, his writings reflect the substitution practice of κύριος. If Philo were familiar with a Greek Bible containing ΙΑΩ or YHWH, it is striking that he never explicitly refers to it.
Conclusion
1. The use of ΙΑΩ in select fragments and onomastica reflects regional revisions or transliterations for specific purposes. It does not prove ΙΑΩ was the original rendering of YHWH in the LXX.
2. The Kaige recension and manuscript diversity indicate that Jewish scribes occasionally reinserted the divine name to align with Hebrew liturgical practices.
3. Κύριος is attested in the Jewish tradition prior to the Christian era and aligns with the oral substitution of "Adonai" for YHWH.
4. The NT authors relied on the LXX tradition of using κύριος, applying it to Jesus in a way that equated Him with YHWH.
Emanuel Tov, Patrick Skehan, and others may argue for ΙΑΩ, but the overwhelming manuscript evidence, textual consistency, and historical context support κύριος as the standard and original Greek rendering of YHWH.
The JW argument is self-defeating because it fails to identify a plausible or consistent agent for the alleged removal of the Tetragrammaton from the NT. If Jews were responsible, the argument collapses under its own weight. The Jewish authorities, already hostile toward Christianity, would not have had control over Christian manuscripts. More importantly, if Christians were using the Tetragrammaton to call upon the God of Israel, it would have caused massive controversy. Instead, Jewish criticism of Christians focused on their worship of Jesus as God (e.g., Pliny and Talmudic polemics). As you noted, Pliny the Younger, in his famous letter (ca. 112 CE), writes that Christians sang hymns “to Christ as God”. If Christians were proclaiming the divine name “YHWH” in this context, it would have been a far greater scandal to Jewish ears and Roman authorities alike—yet there is no evidence of such accusations.
Was It the Christians? If Christians systematically removed the Tetragrammaton, why did they replace it with Kyrios—a term already used for Jesus throughout the NT? This substitution only reinforces the NT’s high Christology, where Jesus is identified with the Lord of the OT (e.g., Romans 10:13 citing Joel 2:32). Furthermore, early Christian manuscripts are overwhelmingly consistent in using Kyrios or Theos in OT quotations. If a theological conspiracy to remove the Tetragrammaton occurred, we would expect transitional manuscripts showing inconsistency or remnants of the divine name—but no such evidence exists. I repeat: There is no written record within early Christianity indicating that the Church ever instructed copyists or translators to eliminate YHWH.
Fear of Jewish Retaliation? The idea that Christians removed the Tetragrammaton to avoid persecution from Jews is weak and ahistorical. By the late 1st and early 2nd centuries, Jewish-Christian relations had already fractured significantly (e.g., the Birkat ha-Minim curse). Christians were being persecuted for proclaiming Jesus as divine, not for misusing the Tetragrammaton. The Jewish rejection of the Septuagint itself (ca. 2nd century) demonstrates that it was not Christians but Jews who distanced themselves from the LXX because Christians were using it to argue for Jesus’ Messiahship and divinity. If anything, the Christian use of Kyrios solidified the LXX as a distinctly Christian scripture.
Who made the decision on this? Where is the “smoking gun?”
51
Theocratic Warfare and Taqiyya
by aqwsed12345 in
1. watchtower
2. beliefs
the concept of strategic deception exists in several religious and ideological contexts.

in this article, we will explore and compare the theocratic warfare doctrine of the watchtower society and taqiyya in islam.

both concepts have parallels in their mechanisms of permitting deception for religious purposes but differ significantly in their application and historical roots.. 1. theocratic warfare: the "rahab method".
aqwsed12345

@slimboyfat
Once I argued with a JW about the hypothesis that if they found a 2nd or 3rd-century NT manuscript fragment which would contain some form of the Tetragrammaton (or ΙΑΩ). Well, what would that prove? That this was the original apostolic variant? That the JW emphasis on the “use” of the Tetragrammaton was the original understanding in the apostolic age? Not even remotely! This would prove only that there was ALSO such a thing, we would not really know anything about who made it, what group it belonged to, what theological background represented. So we wouldn’t really know anything specific about this issue. For example, according to Pietersma, the Greek OT editions with the forms of the Tetragrammaton are the result of a later re-Hebraizing recension, so the hypothetical NT manuscript I suggested could also be the own product of a Judaizing heterodox sect (e.g. Ebionites). We wouldn't really know anything specific, but let's not doubt it, the Watchtower would immediately start promoting that their claim regarding this has been “proven”.
If such a hypothetical NT manuscript fragment were found containing the Tetragrammaton or ΙΑΩ, it would not conclusively prove that this form was original to the apostles or the earliest Christians. A singular manuscript, or even a handful fragments tell us very little about its origins, provenance, or theological alignment. Was it mainstream or sectarian? Orthodoxy or heresy? Without additional evidence, it’s impossible to attribute this practice to the apostles or the original NT authors. Judaizing sects such as the Ebionites could have produced manuscripts that reintroduced a Hebrew form of the divine name. Such a fragment could simply reflect the influence of a heterodox group, not mainstream Christian belief. The existence of one textual variant does not invalidate other manuscript traditions. For example, we find textual variations in early manuscripts of the Gospels and epistles, but scholars rely on the broad attestation of the textual tradition to reconstruct the original text. A lone fragment with the Tetragrammaton would not outweigh the overwhelming manuscript evidence of Kyrios in the Greek NT.
In the same unfair way, you now want to reverse the burden of proof, so that instead of the Watchtower having to prove the existence of the Tetragrammaton in the NT, or its removal, I have to present the LXX manuscripts with Kyrios.
Albert Pietersma’s thesis regarding re-Hebraizing revisions is highly relevant here. Pietersma and other scholars (e.g., Martin Rösel, Emanuel Tov) argue that the presence of the Tetragrammaton in some Greek OT manuscripts, like 8HevXIIgr or Papyrus Fouad 266, represents later corrections that sought to align the Greek text with Hebrew scribal traditions. This process is particularly visible in the Kaige revision, which emerged in the 1st century BCE to “correct” the Septuagint toward proto-Masoretic Hebrew texts. The appearance of the Tetragrammaton in Greek manuscripts reflects a reactionary phase of Jewish scribal activity, not the original practice of the LXX translators. It arose out of a perceived need to return to Hebrew textual and theological norms, likely as part of broader concerns about Hellenistic influence and Christian usage of the LXX. The Kaige revision and re-Hebraizing tendencies show that Jewish scribes were inconsistent in handling the divine name. Some manuscripts included the Tetragrammaton; others used Greek equivalents like Kyrios. This diversity highlights that there was no universal standard in pre-Christian Judaism.
So the claim that “all” pre-Christian LXX manuscripts containing the divine name use the Tetragrammaton (or ΙΑΩ) is grossly misleading because pre-Christian manuscripts of the LXX are extremely limited and fragmentary. The few surviving examples that preserve the Tetragrammaton are exceptions, not representative of a universal scribal standard. These fragments constitute isolated instances. From such a small sample size, it is methodologically unsound to generalize that “all” pre-Christian LXX manuscripts used the Tetragrammaton. The fact that no extant pre-Christian LXX manuscript contains Kyrios does not prove that Kyrios was absent. The textual gap does not allow for definitive conclusions about the entire pre-Christian LXX tradition. The argument assumes that the absence of Kyrios in a limited number of surviving manuscripts equates to its universal absence. This is a classic argument from silence, which fails to account for the selectivity and incompleteness of the surviving manuscript record.
Philo of Alexandria consistently uses Kyrios when quoting the Septuagint. This is a crucial piece of evidence for the pre-Christian use of Kyrios in Greek-speaking Jewish communities. Philo never refers to the Tetragrammaton or its Greek equivalents (e.g., ΙΑΩ) in his extensive works. If the divine name were universally preserved in the LXX, Philo’s omission would be inexplicable. Philo explicitly uses Kyrios as a reverent reference to God, demonstrating that Kyrios was already a common and accepted substitute for the Tetragrammaton in Jewish circles during the pre-Christian period.
The NT writers, all of whom were Jewish, consistently quote the LXX using Kyrios where the Tetragrammaton occurs in the Hebrew Scriptures. The NT authors were writing under divine inspiration. If the original LXX universally contained the Tetragrammaton, it is inconceivable that the apostles would consistently use an “altered” form of the text (Kyrios). In every instance, the NT writers preserve Kyrios, not the Tetragrammaton, reinforcing that this was the form of the Greek Scriptures used in the Jewish-Christian milieu of the first century.
The Kaige Revision of the Greek Old Testament is key to understanding how scribal practices evolved. The Kaige revisers were hyper-literal scribes who sought to align the Greek text more closely with the proto-Masoretic Hebrew text. The re-Hebraization seen in texts like 8HevXIIgr and P. Fouad 266 reflects a later scribal correction, not the original LXX. This reintroduction of the Tetragrammaton likely arose as a reaction to the increasing Christian use of Kyrios. Pietersma argues that the Old Greek translators originally used Kyrios to represent the Tetragrammaton. The use of the Hebrew Tetragrammaton in certain fragments is evidence of later scribal revisions, not the original translation practice.
The translation technique of the original LXX, particularly in the Pentateuch, strongly suggests that Kyrios was the original rendering of YHWH. The LXX translators frequently rendered YHWH as Kyrios, often without the definite article, to reflect its function as a divine name. For example in Genesis 15:2, where the Hebrew text has Adonai YHWH, the LXX reads Κύριε Κύριε ("Lord, Lord"). This shows that Kyrios was not merely a placeholder but an intentional rendering. If the Tetragrammaton had been present, we would expect inconsistencies or mixed usage in these renderings. The uniformity of Kyrios strongly indicates that it was the translator’s choice, not a later Christian insertion.
While scholars like Tov and Skehan argue for the originality of the Tetragrammaton, their views are far from universally accepted. Their conclusions rely heavily on the limited evidence of fragments like P. Fouad 266. These fragments do not represent the full scope of the early LXX tradition. Scholars such as Albert Pietersma, Martin Rösel, and Larry Perkins argue persuasively that Kyrios was original in the Old Greek. Tov himself acknowledges that the evidence is inconclusive, as the number of pre-Christian manuscripts is insufficient to make universal claims.
A deliberate and perfect textual forgery of the type that the JWs claim about the NT Tetragrammaton would have been physically possible only if the Church had implemented a textual standardization like that implemented by Uthman ibn Affan on the Qur’an. However, this - even if there had been such an intention - would not have been physically possible before the Constantine shift, given that, unlike Islam, which was quickly gaining a position of power, Christianity was a small and persecuted community in its first three centuries, without capability to carry out such centralized textual purge. There is no written record within early Christianity indicating that the Church ever instructed copyists or translators to eliminate YHWH. Such a decision would have required at least an ecumenical council decree, incited significant internal resistance, and could not have been carried out in secret. No external record from non-Christian sources supports this claim either—something that, for example, Jews could have used as a strong argument during theological debates.
Consider this: even the Uthmanic standardization of the Qur'an was not perfect, and evidence remains that other textual versions existed prior to Uthman's efforts. Capih Uthman ordered the burning of all other manuscripts that differed from the standardized version to suppress existing variations. This very act implies that multiple Qur'anic versions circulated before his standardization.
Prominent companions of Muhammad, such as Ibn Mas’ud and Ubayy ibn Ka’b, had their own codices that differed from Uthman's version. Ibn Mas’ud’s codex excluded Surahs 1, 113, and 114, Ubayy ibn Ka’b’s codex included additional surahs, such as the “Surah of the Two Lights,” not found in the current Qur'an. Islamic traditions themselves confirm these differences, showing that Uthman did not erase all evidence of alternative readings. Early Qur'anic manuscripts, such as the Sana’a Palimpsest, reveal textual variants when compared to the Uthmanic text. These manuscripts contain differences in wording, order, and even omitted or added verses, proving that diverse versions existed. The existence of multiple qira’at (canonical recitation styles), such as those of Hafs and Warsh, demonstrates that variations persisted even after Uthman’s standardization. These differences include changes in vowels, diacritical marks, and sometimes even words, which alter meanings.
So despite Uthman’s efforts to enforce a single Qur'anic text, the historical testimonies, manuscript discoveries (e.g., the Sana'a Palimpsest), and surviving variant recitations demonstrate that multiple versions of the Qur'an existed. Uthman’s standardization was not able to completely erase the evidence of these earlier textual differences.
In light of this, I ask, how was the "evil" Catholic Church able to remove the Tetragrammaton from the New Testament without leaving any direct or indirect trace of it?
The Watchtower Society frequently conflates hypothetical scenarios with established fact. If some hypothetical NT fragments with the Tetragrammaton were discovered, they would likely promote it as definitive proof of their claims. However, based on the fragmentary manuscript data, it cannot be stated that this is normative. Without widespread attestation across early manuscripts, the fragment’s significance would remain limited. The Watchtower fails to meet the burden of proof for its claim that the Tetragrammaton was removed from the NT. There is no evidence of transitional manuscripts or historical records describing this supposed “removal.” In contrast, the consistent use of Kyrios in the NT and early Christian manuscripts reflects a well-established tradition. The Watchtower ignores the overwhelming evidence for Kyrios in early Christian manuscripts while elevating isolated and ambiguous examples of the Tetragrammaton. Their argument relies on speculation and selective reasoning, not a balanced assessment of the textual tradition.
Pliny the Younger writes about the Christians: “Affirmabant autem hanc fuisse summam vel culpae suae vel erroris, quod essent soliti stato die ante lucem convenire, carmenque Christo quasi deo dicere...” Why doesn't he write that they call upon some “Iehovah”, thereby causing great scandal to the Jews?
51
Theocratic Warfare and Taqiyya
by aqwsed12345 in
1. watchtower
2. beliefs
the concept of strategic deception exists in several religious and ideological contexts.

in this article, we will explore and compare the theocratic warfare doctrine of the watchtower society and taqiyya in islam.

both concepts have parallels in their mechanisms of permitting deception for religious purposes but differ significantly in their application and historical roots.. 1. theocratic warfare: the "rahab method".
aqwsed12345

@Earnest
FYI: Pietersma, Albert (1984), "Kyrios or Tetragram: A Renewed Quest for the Original LXX"
The claim that there is no pre-Christian Septuagint (LXX) manuscript containing Kyrios for the Tetragrammaton is an argument from silence. It assumes that the absence of early LXX manuscripts with Kyrios is conclusive evidence of its nonexistence. The extant pre-Christian Greek manuscripts are extremely limited and fragmentary. We cannot infer with certainty what the “universal” practice was based on these small samples. Texts like 8HevXIIgr and P. Fouad 266—which contain the Tetragrammaton—reflect a re-Hebraizing recension, where scribes intentionally reintroduced the Tetragrammaton into the Greek text. Albert Pietersma and other scholars (e.g., Hanhart) have shown that these texts are not representatives of the original LXX, but are later corrections aimed at aligning the LXX with the Hebrew tradition.
Scholars like Albert Pietersma, Martin Rösel, and Larry Perkins argue persuasively that Kyrios was the original rendering of the divine name in the Old Greek (OG). This conclusion is based on the internal evidence of the LXX itself. The translation technique of the Pentateuch indicates that the translators adopted Kyrios consistently as a proper noun, often unarticulated (without the article) to reflect its role as a divine name. In passages like Exodus 8:22 (LXX), Kyrios appears in an appellative form (ho Kyrios) for interpretive purposes, indicating that the translators were intentionally using Kyrios to convey the meaning of the Tetragrammaton, not as a placeholder.
Furthermore, the consistency with which Kyrios replaces both YHWH and Adonai (when the two occur together, such as in Genesis 15:2 and Deuteronomy 3:24) demonstrates that the translators viewed these names as synonymous in Greek. If the Tetragrammaton were present in the original LXX, such consistent substitution patterns would be inexplicable.
The argument that there is no recorded discussion about the substitution of Kyrios for the Tetragrammaton fails on multiple fronts. Silence about scribal practices or textual transmission is common in antiquity. For instance, we have no historical record of a decision to introduce the nomina sacra in Christian texts, yet they appear universally in Christian manuscripts.The lack of record about this change does not imply a conspiracy; it reflects the organic and practical development of scribal conventions in Jewish and Christian communities.
The claim that Christians “hijacked” the LXX is misleading. The Jewish rejection of the LXX began in earnest in the second century AD following disputes with Christians who used the LXX to prove Jesus as the Messiah. In response, Jews favored the proto-Masoretic text and translations like those of Aquila, which avoided Kyrios and reverted to more literal renderings. The absence of the Tetragrammaton in Christian copies reflects continuity with the Greek-speaking Jewish tradition that originally produced the LXX, not a deliberate Christian alteration.
The claim that Christians systematically replaced the Tetragrammaton with Kyrios after the first century is unsupported by textual evidence. Manuscripts like P. Fouad 266 and 8HevXIIgr post-date the LXX’s original composition and reflect specific re-Hebraizing revisions, not the norm. The original LXX, as Pietersma demonstrates, used Kyrios to represent YHWH. No evidence exists for a widespread Christian effort to alter pre-existing manuscripts. The introduction of Kyrios predates Christianity and aligns with Jewish practices in the Greek-speaking diaspora, where the divine name was not vocalized out of reverence. Moreover, Philo of Alexandria, a pre-Christian Jewish philosopher, explicitly interprets the divine name as Kyrios in his writings (e.g., De Plantatione 85–90). Philo’s testimony confirms that Kyrios was read and understood as the Greek equivalent of YHWH in Jewish communities before the rise of Christianity.
It is speculative to claim that Christian scribes replaced the Tetragrammaton. The appearance of Kyrios in all known NT manuscripts and later LXX copies aligns with pre-Christian Jewish tradition. If Christians had systematically replaced the divine name, we would expect clear evidence of transitional manuscripts showing inconsistent usage. No such manuscripts exist.
51
Theocratic Warfare and Taqiyya
by aqwsed12345 in
1. watchtower
2. beliefs
the concept of strategic deception exists in several religious and ideological contexts.

in this article, we will explore and compare the theocratic warfare doctrine of the watchtower society and taqiyya in islam.

both concepts have parallels in their mechanisms of permitting deception for religious purposes but differ significantly in their application and historical roots.. 1. theocratic warfare: the "rahab method".
aqwsed12345

@Earnest
Almost all of our surviving LXX manuscripts date from the second century CE onward, however, we have strong evidence that Kyrios was in use before the Christian era. Philo of Alexandria (20 BCE – 50 CE), a Jewish philosopher, frequently uses Kyrios (Lord) when quoting the Septuagint. Philo never mentions the Tetragrammaton or its preservation in Greek manuscripts, suggesting that Kyrios was already established in his community’s scripture. This demonstrates that the Septuagint circulated with Kyrios in place of the divine name among Hellenistic Jews by the 1st century CE.
The New Testament writers (all of whom were Jewish) quote extensively from the LXX. In every instance where they quote Old Testament passages containing the Tetragrammaton, they use Kyrios (Lord). If the original LXX manuscripts used the Tetragrammaton universally, it is inconceivable that the apostles and New Testament writers, under divine inspiration, would have conformed to an “altered” version of the text. The practice of using Kyrios as a reverent abbreviation (nomina sacra) for God’s name emerged in the first and second centuries CE. This convention reflects a continuity with the Jewish scribal tradition of substituting Adonai (Lord) for the Tetragrammaton in spoken and written form.
While certain pre-Christian manuscripts, such as Papyrus Fouad 266, preserve the Tetragrammaton, these fragments are exceptions rather than evidence of a universal standard. Other Greek Jewish texts show no evidence of insisting on the inclusion of the divine name in its Hebrew form. The Jewish community’s widespread avoidance of pronouncing the divine name (substituting Adonai) likely influenced scribes to adopt Kyrios as a reverent equivalent.
It is important to note the lack of pre-Christian manuscripts that exclusively and universally contain the Tetragrammaton. The evidence points to a diversity of scribal practices among Greek-speaking Jews before the Christian era. While Papyrus Fouad 266 includes the Tetragrammaton in Hebrew script, it is an isolated example, not a conclusive representative of the pre-Christian LXX scribal transmission. The existence of these fragments that preserve the Tetragrammaton does not prove that the use of Kyrios was absent. On the contrary, the broader tradition of Philo, the New Testament, and subsequent manuscripts shows that Kyrios was the dominant practice.
So what we do know is that Philo, the New Testament writers, and early Christians consistently used Kyrios as the Greek equivalent for the Tetragrammaton. This established practice demonstrates that Kyrios was already widely accepted in the Jewish Greek-speaking world before the Christian era.
406
Is Jesus the Creator?
by Sea Breeze in
1. watchtower
2. bible
that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..
aqwsed12345
@Blotty
The Watchtower article cited makes selective use of historical and biblical sources, misrepresenting them to support Jehovah’s Witnesses’ doctrinal stance. The Bible does not explicitly prohibit celebrating birthdays. The examples of Pharaoh (Genesis 40:20) and Herod (Matthew 14:6-10) show sinful acts committed on birthdays, but the celebrations themselves are not condemned. These narratives highlight the wickedness of the individuals, not the inherent sinfulness of marking a birthday. In fact, Job 1:4-5 suggests that Job’s children held feasts "each on his day." While Jehovah's Witnesses argue this refers to something other than birthdays, the text does not explicitly deny the possibility. Job’s concern was for their behavior, not the occasion itself. The Watchtower’s argument hinges on the idea that wedding anniversaries celebrate a divinely instituted arrangement (marriage), while birthdays do not. However the Bible does not mandate the celebration of anniversaries either. Birthdays, like anniversaries, can be moments to reflect on God’s blessings and milestones in life. Both celebrations can honor God if done appropriately.
Jehovah’s Witnesses often reject customs with alleged pagan origins (birthdays, Christmas) while embracing others (wedding rings, using names of days/months). This double standard is illogical: As the Watchtower itself states (The Watchtower, Oct. 15, 1991):
“Still, all kinds of objects, designs, and practices have, at some time or place, been given a false interpretation or have been linked with unscriptural teachings. Trees have been worshiped, the heart shape has been viewed as sacred, and incense has been used in pagan ceremonies. Does this mean that a Christian must never use incense, have trees in any decoration, or wear heart-shaped jewelry? That is not a valid conclusion.”
If wedding rings are permissible despite their pagan history, so too should be birthdays or Christmas, which no longer carry pagan meanings in their modern context. Practices like birthdays and Christmas have lost their pagan associations and are celebrated today in entirely different contexts. Christians focus on Christ’s incarnation at Christmas, not pagan gods or rituals. Similarly, birthdays celebrate life—a gift from God.
The Watchtower often cites sources like Hastings’ Encyclopaedia or Origen to argue against birthdays, ignoring the broader historical context. Origen’s condemnation of birthdays reflects his ascetic philosophy, not a biblical command. His views were not universally accepted by early Christians and are irrelevant as binding doctrine. While ancient Jews avoided birthdays due to potential astrological connotations, this cultural preference is not a binding principle for Christians. The New Testament explicitly teaches that Christians are not bound by Jewish customs (Colossians 2:16-17; Galatians 4:9-10).
The claim that "week names" (e.g., Thursday, named after Thor) are unavoidable but harmless is revealing. Jehovah’s Witnesses argue that using pagan-derived weekday names is acceptable because these names are practical tools, not acts of worship. However the same reasoning applies to birthdays and Christmas. These celebrations no longer carry their original pagan significance and are instead opportunities for family unity, gratitude, and worship of God.
Romans 14:5-6 teaches that Christians have freedom regarding the observance of special days:
“One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord.”
This passage underscores personal liberty in matters of celebration, provided they honor God. Celebrating a birthday or Christmas is not inherently sinful and can be done in a God-honoring way. Celebrating milestones like birthdays or Christmas can be spiritually enriching when approached with gratitude toward God. Jehovah’s Witnesses’ blanket rejection overlooks the potential for these celebrations to inspire faith and community.
The entry in Kitto’s Cyclopedia of Biblical Literature provides historical context about birthdays in ancient cultures but does not establish any prohibition against their observance for Christians. Below is a detailed response addressing the key points raised in the entry:
Claim: "The observance of birthdays may be traced to a very ancient date... celebrated with a degree of festivity."
Yes, the celebration of birthdays has ancient origins, but their historical existence does not inherently make them inappropriate for Christians. The argument that birthdays are tied to pagan practices misunderstands the nature of cultural evolution. Modern birthday celebrations are no longer associated with the religious or idolatrous rites of ancient Egypt, Persia, or Rome. Just as wedding rings or calendars have pagan origins but are now used without religious connotations, birthdays can similarly be celebrated without idolatry.
Claim: "The birthdays of the Egyptian kings were celebrated with great pomp... regarded as holy days with no business done upon them."
The text mentions Egyptian practices, which often involved idolatrous rituals, but it does not follow that modern birthday celebrations are idolatrous. Christians are not bound by Egyptian or Persian customs, nor do contemporary birthday celebrations mimic those practices. For example a holiday like Christmas or Easter may have coincided with ancient pagan festivals but has been "Christianized" to reflect biblical truths. Similarly, birthday celebrations today are a time of thanksgiving and joy, often involving prayer and acknowledgment of God’s blessings.
Claim: "In the Bible there is no instance of birthday celebrations among the Jews themselves... later Jews regarded birthday celebrations as parts of idolatrous worship."
The absence of explicit birthday celebrations in the Bible is not a prohibition. The Bible does not record many neutral or positive cultural practices of its time, but this does not make them sinful. Later Jewish avoidance of birthdays was cultural and based on caution against pagan influences, not a biblical command. This reflects a post-exilic mindset of distancing from Gentile customs, but Christians are not bound by later Jewish traditions (see Colossians 2:16-17).
Claim: "The example of Herod the tetrarch, whose birthday celebration cost John the Baptist his life, can scarcely be regarded as such."
The fact that immoral acts occurred during Herod’s birthday does not condemn the concept of celebrating birthdays. The Bible does not attribute the beheading of John the Baptist to the birthday itself but to the wickedness of Herod and his family. By this logic, one could argue against any festivity because sinful acts might occur during them. Similar logic could be misapplied to weddings. For instance, Jesus attended a wedding at Cana (John 2:1-11), but if someone committed a sin during a wedding, would that mean weddings are sinful? Of course not. It is the actions of the individuals, not the occasion, that are condemned.
Claim: "Later Jews regarded birthday celebrations as parts of idolatrous worship... on account of idolatrous rites in honor of patron gods of the day."
The association of birthdays with idolatry in some cultures does not apply universally or historically to every birthday celebration. Christians do not observe birthdays with idolatrous intent or rituals. Modern birthday customs, such as cakes or candles, are secularized expressions of celebration and gratitude, devoid of pagan worship. The argument against birthdays based on their alleged pagan origins ignores the fact that Jehovah’s Witnesses allow practices like the use of wedding rings, which also have pagan roots. Their own literature acknowledges:
“Many of today’s articles of clothing and aspects of life originated in pagan lands. The present time divisions of hours, minutes and seconds are based on an early Babylonian system. Yet, there is no objection to a Christian’s using these time divisions, for one’s doing so does not involve carrying on false religious practices.” (The Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1972, p. 63-64).
Why apply a stricter standard to birthdays while ignoring other practices with similar origins? The Bible does not explicitly command or forbid birthday celebrations. However, it does emphasize the freedom of Christians regarding cultural practices, as long as they do not involve sin:
"One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord." (Romans 14:5-6)
"Let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or Sabbaths." (Colossians 2:16-17)
In Job 1:4-5, Job’s children held feasts "each on his day," which some scholars interpret as their birthdays. Job, rather than condemning the celebrations, prayed for his children, showing concern for their spiritual well-being. This demonstrates a balanced perspective: celebrations can be occasions for gratitude and prayer, not condemnation.
So the argument against birthdays relies on guilt by association, linking modern practices with ancient pagan customs that are no longer relevant. The Bible provides no explicit prohibition of birthdays, and their modern observance bears no resemblance to ancient idolatrous rites. Christians are free to celebrate birthdays as occasions of gratitude to God for the gift of life. As Paul wrote, "Whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God" (1 Corinthians 10:31). Jehovah’s Witnesses’ stance on birthdays reflects an inconsistent application of their principles, as they permit other practices with similar historical roots while condemning birthdays without biblical justification. In short, the observance of birthdays is a personal choice and can be a God-honoring tradition when approached with the right intent.
The rejection of birthdays and Christmas by Jehovah’s Witnesses is rooted in selective interpretations of history and inconsistent application of their own principles. Modern Christians celebrate these occasions in ways that reflect their faith and gratitude to God, not paganism. The Bible allows freedom in such matters, emphasizing that the heart's intention is what matters most (Colossians 3:17). Rejecting these celebrations outright imposes unnecessary restrictions and misses opportunities to glorify God through shared joy and thanksgiving.
Your emotional claims deserve a measured response:
- Claim: "I avoid celebrations for commercialism or pagan reasons."
- Claim: "People like you put me off religion."
406
Is Jesus the Creator?
by Sea Breeze in
1. watchtower
2. bible
that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..
aqwsed12345

@Earnest
Edward Adams (2008) offers an alternative translation: “Akeptous, the God-loving, has offered the table to/for God, a memorial to/for Jesus Christ.” This reading distinguishes between “God” and “Jesus Christ,” aligning with a lower Christology more typical of the second and third centuries. While Adams acknowledges the spacing between Θεῷ ("God") and Ἰησοῦ Χριστῷ ("Jesus Christ"), he also states: “It seems more natural to take all three words together.” This is crucial because Adams himself leans toward the natural reading of "God Jesus Christ" as a single unit. He acknowledges the possibility of separating the terms but does not insist on it. Nomina sacra (ΘΩ, ΙΥ, ΧΥ) are used for sacred names in the inscription, and their unified appearance reinforces the high theological significance of the phrase. The sacred abbreviations were a deliberate liturgical practice, meant to emphasize Jesus’ divine identity, not diminish it.
The dative case of Θεῷ and Ἰησοῦ Χριστῷ naturally supports an appositional reading: Θεῷ "to God", AND Ἰησοῦ Χριστῷ "to Jesus Christ" (in the dative case, identifying “God”). In Greek, appositional phrases are common and imply identification, as in Romans 9:5: “...ὁ ὢν ἐπὶ πάντων Θεὸς εὐλογητὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας.” (“Christ, who is over all, God blessed forever.”) For the inscription to mean "to God, and to Jesus Christ" as separate entities, we would expect a conjunction like καί ("and") or another grammatical marker. Its absence strongly favors the appositional reading: "to God Jesus Christ."
You claim that the translation “God Jesus Christ” would reflect a “high Christology” that did not exist until the fourth century, after the Council of Nicaea.This argument assumes a developmental Christology that lacks historical support. High Christology is well attested in the first and second centuries, long before Nicaea (cf. Ignatius of Antioch, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus of Lyons. The inscription aligns with this early high Christology, providing epigraphic confirmation of what Christian writings already affirm.
You emphasize that the dating of the mosaic to 230 AD is disputed, citing critics, such as Joe Zias, argue that a Roman officer (Gaianus) declaring his Christian faith publicly in the third century is improbable, suggesting the structure was adapted for Christian use later. While skepticism is understandable, there are strong reasons to consider the proposed 230 AD dating plausible. By the early third century, Christianity had gained a significant foothold within the Roman Empire. Although persecution occurred, there were periods of relative tolerance, particularly under Emperor Severus Alexander (222-235 AD). Christians began to occupy higher social positions, and public expressions of faith, while risky, were not unheard of. The Megiddo site includes inscriptions and mosaics that align stylistically and materially with third-century Christian artifacts. Early Christian communities often used pre-existing Roman structures for worship, especially in private or semi-public settings.
The nomina sacra (ΘΩ, ΙΥ, ΧΥ) are consistent with Christian practices in the late second and early third centuries. The use of sacred abbreviations this early demonstrates a mature liturgical tradition. If the mosaic were post-Constantinian, we might expect more explicit Christian symbols (e.g., crosses), which are notably absent here. While unusual, Gaianus’ inscription is not impossible. His act may reflect either a period of relative tolerance, or an extraordinary expression of faith and courage, similar to the martyrdom accounts of early Christians. Dating ancient structures is inherently complex and involves a degree of uncertainty. The fact that some scholars contest the dating does not render the earlier date impossible, particularly when the evidence aligns with other third-century Christian artifacts.
Even if alternative translations exist or the dating is contested, the Akeptous Inscription remains highly significant for early Christology, because tt provides material evidence of Christian worship and Christological beliefs in the early third century. The phrase “Θεῷ Ἰησοῦ Χριστῷ” strongly supports a high Christology, consistent with both Scripture and early Christian writings. The use of nomina sacra demonstrates reverence for Jesus and aligns with other early Christian artifacts. While some scholars propose alternative readings or later dates, the appositional reading ("to God Jesus Christ") and the pre-Constantinian dating remain well-supported by the evidence.
406
Is Jesus the Creator?
by Sea Breeze in
1. watchtower
2. bible
that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..
aqwsed12345

@Blotty
The claim that birthdays and Christmas "have origins in pagan worship" oversimplifies and distorts the historical context. Many ancient customs, such as wearing rings or using calendars, originated in societies with pagan beliefs. However, the mere adoption of a cultural practice does not mean participating in pagan worship. Using a calendar or wearing a ring does not equate to venerating a pagan deity, just as celebrating Christmas or a birthday today does not retain any pagan religious meaning. Jehovah’s Witnesses themselves acknowledge this principle. The Watchtower (Jan. 15, 1972) states:
“Even if it were a fact that pagans first used wedding rings, would that rule such out for Christians? Not necessarily.”
The meaning of a practice or custom is not permanently tied to its origin. For example, Christmas today is centered on the birth of Christ, not pagan deities. Similarly, birthdays are personal celebrations of life, not linked to ancient pagan rites. This argument commits the genetic fallacy, which assumes that something is inherently bad or wrong because of its origin. If this logic were consistently applied, Jehovah's Witnesses would need to reject practices like using names of days and months (e.g., Thursday—Thor’s day), wedding rings, and even the division of hours into minutes, which are rooted in ancient Babylonian culture.
Jehovah’s Witnesses selectively reject certain practices based on their alleged pagan origins while accepting others with similar backgrounds. This double standard undermines their argument. Jehovah’s Witnesses celebrate wedding anniversaries but reject birthdays, even though neither is explicitly mentioned in the Bible and both could be argued to have historical links to pagan customs. If pagan origins are the sole criterion for rejection, consistency would demand the rejection of both. The Watchtower itself acknowledges:
“Admittedly, true Christians today are not preoccupied with the roots and possible ancient religious connections of every practice or custom.” (The Watchtower, Oct. 15, 1998).
The Jehovah’s Witnesses’ own literature states:
“The question is not so much whether wedding rings were first used by pagans but whether they were originally used as part of false religious practices and still retain such religious significance.” (The Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1972).
Using this reasoning, birthdays and Christmas should be permissible, as they no longer carry pagan religious significance in modern practice.
Origen’s critique of birthdays is often misrepresented. Origen viewed earthly life and its milestones as distractions from spiritual growth. His opposition to birthdays stemmed from his personal ascetic philosophy, not from a biblical command or universal Christian teaching. Origen’s claim that “only sinners celebrate birthdays” (citing Pharaoh and Herod) reflects his interpretation, not biblical doctrine. The Bible neither condemns nor prohibits birthday celebrations. Jehovah’s Witnesses often cite Origen selectively to support their rejection of birthdays, yet they disregard other early Christian views and practices that contradict their teachings (e.g., belief in the physical resurrection, veneration of saints, or the Trinity). The omitted context of Origen’s statement shows that his critique was not about birthdays being inherently sinful but about avoiding materialism and focusing on spiritual life. This nuance is ignored in the JW argument.
The argument against Christmas focuses on its alleged pagan origins, but this oversimplifies historical evidence. The claim that Christmas is derived from the pagan festival Sol Invictus lacks historical evidence. Early Christians celebrated December 25 as Christ’s birth based on theological reasoning (the "integral age" theory), not to Christianize a pagan festival. In fact, the first recorded celebration of Christmas predates the establishment of Sol Invictus in 274 AD. Even if certain customs were adapted from pre-Christian cultures, they were reinterpreted to honor Christ, not pagan gods. For example, the use of light during Christmas symbolizes Christ as the "light of the world" (John 8:12).
Jehovah’s Witnesses argue that practices with pagan origins are unacceptable when tied to worship. However celebrating Christmas or birthdays does not involve acts of pagan worship. Modern celebrations are entirely secular or Christian in their focus. As The Watchtower (Oct. 15, 1991) admits:
“Still, all kinds of objects, designs, and practices have, at some time or place, been given a false interpretation or have been linked with unscriptural teachings. Trees have been worshiped, the heart shape has been viewed as sacred, and incense has been used in pagan ceremonies. Does this mean that a Christian must never use incense, have trees in any decoration, or wear heart-shaped jewelry? That is not a valid conclusion.”
Jehovah’s Witnesses confuse cultural practices with acts of worship. Decorating a tree or giving gifts is not equivalent to religious veneration. These are cultural expressions, not acts of idolatry.
The argument against birthdays and Christmas appears to be less about historical accuracy and more about reinforcing Jehovah’s Witnesses’ distinct identity. By rejecting mainstream cultural practices, Jehovah’s Witnesses maintain their separation from “the world” (misinterpreting John 17:16). This creates a distinct identity but lacks biblical support. The New World Translation exaggerates John 17:16 by translating it as "no part of the world," whereas most translations use "not of the world," which emphasizes spiritual distinction, not cultural isolation.
51
Theocratic Warfare and Taqiyya
by aqwsed12345 in
1. watchtower
2. beliefs
the concept of strategic deception exists in several religious and ideological contexts.

in this article, we will explore and compare the theocratic warfare doctrine of the watchtower society and taqiyya in islam.

both concepts have parallels in their mechanisms of permitting deception for religious purposes but differ significantly in their application and historical roots.. 1. theocratic warfare: the "rahab method".
aqwsed12345
@slimboyfat
While Hurtado acknowledges that early Greek manuscripts of the Old Testament sometimes retained the Tetragrammaton in Hebrew characters, he also emphasizes that the practice of reading Kyrios in place of YHWH was already dominant among Greek-speaking Jews long before the second century CE. Hurtado explicitly states:
“When reading the Greek OT, it appears that the dominant practice was to substitute the Greek term Kyrios for YHWH.”
This means that even if the Tetragrammaton was present in the text, it was orally rendered as Kyrios in synagogue worship and private reading. The use of Kyrios as a spoken substitute predates the second century and aligns with the Jewish tradition of avoiding the vocalization of the divine name, substituting it with Adonai (Lord) in Hebrew or Kyrios in Greek.
Paul and other New Testament writers were products of this Jewish tradition. Whether they encountered the Tetragrammaton in Hebrew characters or Kyrios in Greek manuscripts, their understanding of Scripture already equated YHWH with Kyrios. Hurtado’s point that the “referent was clear” underscores the theological consistency in Paul's application of YHWH texts to Jesus, demonstrating that the NT writers deliberately and consciously used Kyrios to refer to both God and Jesus.
The substitution of YHWH with Adonai (Lord) in Jewish liturgical and everyday reading predates Christianity. By the time of the Second Temple period, the vocalization of the divine name was already avoided out of reverence. This practice naturally carried over into Greek translations of the Scriptures. Greek-speaking Jews who read the LXX adopted Kyrios as the equivalent of Adonai, which they used in place of YHWH. This substitution was not a Christian innovation but a continuation of Jewish tradition.
While some early LXX manuscripts include the Tetragrammaton in Hebrew script (e.g., 4Q120 and 8HevXIIgr), the vast majority of surviving manuscripts, including those from the first century CE, use Kyrios. This demonstrates that the practice of using Kyrios was widespread among Jewish communities by the time the NT was written. The claim that Kyrios only replaced the Tetragrammaton from the second century onward ignores the diversity in the manuscript tradition and the established oral practice of substituting YHWH with Kyrios.
The shift to exclusively using Kyrios in written texts likely reflects a gradual standardization influenced by Jewish liturgical practices. By the second century CE, this standardization had become more pronounced. However, the practice of reading Kyrios aloud in place of YHWH predates this textual shift, as Hurtado acknowledges.
Hurtado’s analysis of Paul’s writings confirms that Paul’s application of YHWH texts to Jesus was deliberate and unambiguous. Paul understood that these texts originally referred to YHWH and intentionally applied them to Jesus to express His divine status.
Paul, like other first-century Jews, would have been steeped in the oral and liturgical traditions of his time. These traditions consistently rendered YHWH as Kyrios in Greek-speaking contexts. Whether Paul consulted LXX manuscripts with the Tetragrammaton or with Kyrios is irrelevant, as Hurtado argues. Paul was fully aware of the original referent of these texts and intentionally applied them to Jesus.
As Hurtado notes, Kyrios in the LXX often functions as a proper name, effectively serving as a replacement for YHWH. This underscores the theological weight of Paul’s application of Kyrios texts to Jesus, affirming His divine identity. Far from suggesting textual corruption, Paul’s use of Kyrios highlights the continuity between Jewish and Christian understandings of God’s name and attributes. Paul applies several YHWH texts from the LXX to Jesus, demonstrating his understanding of Jesus as fully divine:
- Romans 10:13 applies Joel 2:32 to Jesus: “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord (Kyrios) will be saved.”
- Philippians 2:9-11 alludes to Isaiah 45:23, where “every knee will bow” to YHWH, now applied to Jesus.
- 1 Corinthians 8:6 reconfigures the Shema (Deut 6:4), explicitly identifying Jesus as “one Lord (Kyrios),” alongside “one God, the Father.”
These examples demonstrate that Paul’s use of Kyrios was intentional and reflected the theological conviction that Jesus shares in the divine identity.
The Watchtower Society’s argument that Kyrios replaced the Tetragrammaton in both the LXX and NT manuscripts is speculative and unfounded for several reasons.No extant NT manuscript contains the Tetragrammaton. From the earliest fragments (e.g., P52, P46, P66) to later complete codices, the NT consistently uses Kyrios and never YHWH. If the NT originally included the Tetragrammaton, its complete absence in the manuscript tradition is inexplicable. The early Christians, known for their meticulous copying practices, would not have erased such a significant feature without leaving any trace.
The development of the nomina sacra (e.g., ΚΣ for Kyrios) in NT manuscripts reflects early Christian reverence for divine names, not an effort to obscure the Tetragrammaton. The use of nomina sacra for Kyrios and Theos predates the second century, further disproving the claim that Kyrios was a later Christian addition.
The Watchtower’s claim requires a centralized conspiracy to alter both the LXX and NT texts across diverse linguistic and geographic communities—a feat that is historically implausible. The absence of any recorded controversy over the alleged removal of the Tetragrammaton, even among heretical groups, further undermines this theory.
51
Theocratic Warfare and Taqiyya
by aqwsed12345 in
1. watchtower
2. beliefs
the concept of strategic deception exists in several religious and ideological contexts.

in this article, we will explore and compare the theocratic warfare doctrine of the watchtower society and taqiyya in islam.

both concepts have parallels in their mechanisms of permitting deception for religious purposes but differ significantly in their application and historical roots.. 1. theocratic warfare: the "rahab method".
aqwsed12345

@Earnest
The absence of explicit documentation for certain practices in early Christianity (e.g., the adoption of the codex or nomina sacra) is not evidence that these practices were arbitrary or comparable to the Watchtower's claim of textual corruption. The adoption of the codex or the use of abbreviations (nomina sacra) likely evolved for practical or devotional reasons, and neither required significant theological controversy. In contrast, replacing the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) with "Kyrios" would represent a profound theological shift—removing the divine name central to Jewish worship and replacing it with a term that could refer to other entities (e.g., "Lord" as a title for Jesus). Such a significant change would have been highly contentious, sparking recorded debates, especially considering the well-documented controversies over far less significant textual or theological issues (e.g., the cucurbita incident or disputes about the canon). The absence of any record of such a debate undermines the plausibility of their claim.
You assert that the Septuagint (LXX) originally contained the Tetragrammaton in Hebrew or Greek transliteration (e.g., ΙΑΩ) but that Christians “replaced” it with "Kyrios" after the first century. This claim relies on selective interpretation of limited manuscript evidence and overlooks the following points. While some pre-Christian manuscripts of the LXX (e.g., 4Q120, 8HevXIIgr) indeed include the Tetragrammaton in Hebrew or ΙΑΩ, these examples are rare and fragmentary and do not represent the entire LXX tradition. Other LXX manuscripts, including those used by Philo of Alexandria (20 BCE–50 CE) and the New Testament writers, consistently use "Kyrios" as the divine name. Philo, for instance, frequently quotes the LXX and explicitly equates "Kyrios" with God’s name. As noted by Martin Rösel and Larry Hurtado, the use of "Kyrios" in the LXX was likely an original feature of many texts, chosen by Jewish translators for theological reasons, such as avoiding the pronunciation of the divine name (Adonai was already a spoken substitute for YHWH in Hebrew texts).
The idea that all early LXX manuscripts contained the Tetragrammaton is speculative and contradicted by the textual tradition. The widespread use of "Kyrios" in surviving LXX manuscripts, including pre-Christian ones, suggests that it was an established practice among Greek-speaking Jews. The replacement theory relies on the unproven assumption that a singular decision was made to remove YHWH from all LXX manuscripts. As Dominique Gonnet and Rösel argue, the coexistence of different forms (e.g., YHWH, ΙΑΩ, "Kyrios") reflects a lack of standardization rather than a deliberate, systematic alteration.
The NT consistently uses "Kyrios" in quotations from the LXX, even in cases where the original Hebrew text has the Tetragrammaton (e.g., Romans 10:13 quoting Joel 2:32). This indicates that the NT authors were using LXX manuscripts where "Kyrios" was already the standard rendering of YHWH. If the NT writers had used manuscripts with the Tetragrammaton, it is inconceivable that no trace of this practice survives in the NT manuscript tradition. All extant NT manuscripts, even the earliest fragments like 𝔓46 (mid-2nd century), use "Kyrios" and never the Tetragrammaton.
You argue that Christians “hijacked” the LXX and replaced the Tetragrammaton with "Kyrios" for theological purposes. The LXX was originally a Jewish translation, and its use of "Kyrios" predates Christianity. As Rösel and Pietersma demonstrate, "Kyrios" was likely chosen by Jewish translators to align with the spoken tradition of substituting Adonai for YHWH. The NT authors simply inherited this tradition rather than introducing it. Even post-Christian Jewish revisions of the LXX, such as those by Aquila and Symmachus, reflect similar avoidance of pronouncing YHWH, using Adonai or other substitutes. This demonstrates that the avoidance of the Tetragrammaton was not a uniquely Christian innovation.
There is no historical or textual evidence that Christians systematically altered all LXX manuscripts to replace the Tetragrammaton with "Kyrios." Such a monumental effort would have required centralized coordination, which was impossible given the decentralized nature of early Christianity. The coexistence of Jewish and Christian communities using the LXX makes it implausible that Christians could have unilaterally altered Jewish texts without opposition or documentation.
You refer to the nomina sacra as evidence of Christian alterations to the text. However, the development of the nomina sacra underscores the reverence early Christians had for sacred terms rather than supporting the idea of corruption. The nomina sacra abbreviations (e.g., ΚΣ for "Kyrios" and ΘΣ for "Theos") emerged as a devotional practice to distinguish sacred names from ordinary words, not as a replacement for YHWH. This practice is evident in NT manuscripts as early as the second century and reflects continuity with Jewish reverence for God’s name. The absence of nomina sacra for YHWH or ΙΑΩ in NT manuscripts strongly suggests that the Tetragrammaton was not present in the NT autographs.
If Christians had removed the Tetragrammaton from the NT and LXX, this would have sparked significant controversy, given the centrality of God's name in Jewish theology. Yet no Church Father accuses Christians of removing the Tetragrammaton, and no heretical group (e.g., Arians, Gnostics) uses this as an argument against Trinitarian Christians, despite their willingness to exploit any perceived flaws in the NT text. The absence of such accusations is incompatible with the claim of a widespread textual alteration.