@vienne
Your entire response only confirms what I said: you are trapped in the same tired, anti-Catholic fallacies that have been refuted for centuries — and you’re apparently either unwilling or unable to think your way out of them.
First, "credibility" is completely irrelevant to the truth of a tenet. If a mathematician who happens to be a mass murderer, pedophile, terrorist whatever, claims that 2+2=4, then he is right in this regard, as opposed to the pious, benevolent mathematician who claims that 5. And therefore, if all the popes in the history of the world had done nothing but bathe in the blood of babies 24/7, if their theology is correct, then it is correct despite their personal morals, and likewise all non-Catholics - despite all their personal moral values - are in error. So the morals of the popes and the clergy are just a red herring, completely irrelevant.
Therefore, your analogy between the Catholic Church and political entities like Russia is fundamentally flawed and absurd. The Church is not a mere political institution; it is, according to Scripture itself, the Body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:27), the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Timothy 3:15), and the Bride of Christ (Ephesians 5:25-27). No political entity, ancient or modern, has ever claimed to be the mystical Body of the eternal Son of God. By trying to shoehorn the Church into a secular political framework, you reveal not only theological ignorance but a complete disregard for what the Bible says about Christ’s Church. In short, your analogy is a category error — the kind of basic logical mistake that invalidates your entire argument from the start.
Second, you say that you "read" Hislop’s book "like a historian." Nonsense. Any serious historian — Catholic, Protestant, or secular — recognizes that Alexander Hislop’s The Two Babylons is a work of fantasy, not credible historical scholarship. Protestant scholars themselves have exposed Hislop as a fraud. If you actually did your "historian" homework instead of parroting anti-Catholic propaganda, you would know that reputable historians like Ralph Woodrow, a Protestant who initially accepted Hislop, later publicly recanted after realizing that Hislop’s work was riddled with distortions, false associations, fabricated etymologies, and historical absurdities. Hislop's book is to serious historical research what flat-Earth theory is to astronomy. The fact that you still cling to it disqualifies you from any pretense of serious historical discourse.
Third, your tactic is the classic Donatist error: you think the sins of individual Catholics, even priests and popes, disprove the Catholic Church as the true Church of Christ. This is both logically and biblically bankrupt. If your standard were true, you would have to reject the Old Testament covenant as well, since Israel’s priests, prophets, and kings — including Moses, Aaron, David, and Solomon — committed grave sins. Yet God’s covenant remained, not because of their perfection, but because of God’s faithfulness (Romans 11:29). You offer no serious theological rebuttal to this. You don’t even try. You just repeat the same simplistic slogan: "Your clergy are corrupt." So what? The personal sins of leaders have never, in any biblical dispensation, invalidated the legitimacy of God's covenant community.
You shout that the Church's "self-identity depends on historically and scripturally untenable claims," but you offer no proof — just assertions. You think if you repeat it often enough and loudly enough, it will become true. It won’t. The Catholic Church’s claims are rooted in the clear testimony of Scripture: Christ established one visible Church (Matthew 16:18–19; John 17:21), promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against it (Matthew 16:18), and conferred divine teaching authority upon its leaders (Matthew 18:17–18; Luke 10:16). Your approach — "ignore everything but the Bible, cut yourself off from history, tradition, and reason" — is a recipe for doctrinal chaos, not truth. Indeed, your method has already spawned over 40,000 Protestant denominations, all reading the same Bible yet reaching contradictory conclusions. So much for your supposed "clear scriptural debate."
You declare, smugly, that if I were serious, I would "abandon everything but the Bible." Really? Where does the Bible teach sola scriptura? Especially your kind of "nuda Scriptura"? Chapter and verse, please. I’ll wait. (Spoiler: it doesn’t. Sola scriptura is an extrabiblical Protestant invention from the 16th century — a human tradition, ironically violating the very principle it claims to uphold.)
Moreover, your demand that Christians should rely """only""" on Scripture ignores how Scripture itself commands us to hold fast to both written and oral tradition (2 Thessalonians 2:15). You pretend that citing the Church Fathers or the consistent tradition of the Christian faith across two millennia is a weakness. In reality, it is your weakness — because you have no history, no continuity, no connection to the apostles except the Bible you privately reinterpret according to your own whims.
In short, you have no right to criticize "convoluted reasoning" when your own position is built on historical amnesia, theological illiteracy, and logical inconsistency. You refuse to answer basic challenges, such as:
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Where was your invisible, "purely Bible-based" church before the 16th century?
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How did Christians determine the canon of Scripture without the Catholic Church?
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How do you know your private interpretation is correct when countless other Bible-only readers reach opposite conclusions?
You have no answers because your system collapses once questioned. So instead, you retreat into personal attacks and recycled sectarian slogans. Your "arguments" — if they can even be called that — amount to nothing more than a bundle of emotional resentments masquerading as theological critique.
Finally, your sneering comment that you "don't care how offended" I am by Watchtower publications only further exposes your bias. I wasn’t offended — I was pointing out that your anti-Catholic rhetoric mirrors the propaganda tactics of groups like the Watchtower: a toxic brew of historical falsification, character assassination, and shallow theology.
You said you think I'm here for "self-verification." No — I’m here because the truth matters, and because Christ promised that His Church would stand forever (Matthew 28:19-20). Meanwhile, you're here to shout at the Bride of Christ from the outside, clinging desperately to your caricatures and conspiracy theories.
I’ll stand with Christ and His Church. You can keep shouting at the walls. It won't change reality. The Catholic Church remains — despite persecution, heresy, scandal, and every attack from enemies ancient and modern — because she is the Church founded by Christ Himself. And the gates of hell shall not prevail against her.