Posts by Hoffnung

10

when will i taste freedom?

by Evidently Apostate in

for all those that have been able to rescue thier loved ones from this religion the feeling of freedom and security must feel incredible no matter what outside influence attacks you it must be easier to fend off with a family united.

i am not one of those situations and i am always dancing around the truth about the truth with my wife.

she can turn on the blinders and question me and level blanket statements like" you dont belive in an armageddon" or "your a completely different person than you were a year ago".

Hoffnung

It is indeed a long and slow process, but as long you can talk about it, you are actually making progress. It took me more than a year, but 2 weeks ago my wife asked me if there was a book or website in her mother tongue that explained what to believe from the bible without he JWs bias, she was looking on the net, but was put off by all the negativity from most websites in her language. I ordered CoC, and guess what, she started reading it yesterday. Hallelujah! People hold their faith as part of their identity, and that is even more so for a Witness. Protecting the Witness faith feels like protecting themselves. It is only slowly, by pointing out their mistakes from the past every now and then, you can eat that connection away. You 1st have to remove this absolute confidence in the "org", then she will come herself to you with: What now? Believe me, it works. Books like the Divine Plan of the ages, the finished mystery,and my favourite Millions now living will never die, will help you to show her the truth about the org. Every witness knows the color of new light, but almost none knows the color of old light. By making this new DVD about the beginning of the org, they gave me a superb excuse to study some older publications and show my "discoveries" to my wife. Show her carefully researched some mistakes in the NWT by using the Kingdom Interlinear, look for verses that contain Jehovah in the Greek scriptures but are not quotes from the Hebrew scriptures and so on. Seize opportunities, but don't start too often discussions yourself.

26

Probably going to be DFed for "apostasy" soon

by WontLeave in

i've been doing a lot of research lately and decided i'm not going to allow the losers in cheap suits to order me around like their dog.

they are not masters of my faith and have no authority to 'lord it over' me.. all the same, many even of the rulers actually put faith in him, but because of the pharisees they would not confess [him], in order not to be expelled from the synagogue; for they loved the glory of men more than even the glory of god.

- john 12:42-43 .

Hoffnung

You are not alone... . Many witnesses are driven to the same conclusions. If they keep it up like this, the KHs will be empty soon. I fully agree with you and my feelings about it are the same. It makes us puke. Feel at ease to vent it here.

Hoffnung

310

Are they really that bad???

by anonymous4 in

had a good look into the doctrine, beliefs and practices of jws and to be honest, i don't really see anything wrong with it at all.. it's biblical and i've had such an eye opener the past year or so reading some of their books and magazines .

is there really any real reasons why i shouldn't want to get involved further?

:-).

Hoffnung

Hello Designs, FYI, I am an inactive JW, slowly releasing the bonds. I believe to understand from your comments you were once an active JW as well, and even an elder at that. I guess you already have gone quite some miles since you quit, and currently favouring Judaism or something related to it. I respect that, however I am not keen in accepting your views. I cannot identify myself with any religion at all at this point in my life. However, any discourse for a Pharasaiac way of believing makes me vomit, I have experienced way too much of it during my time as a JW, and I have seen too many negative long term effects on peoples lives, my own included. I just want to know what the bible teaches for a christian. It seems to be very difficult for you and debator to just sit down, open the bible and show the verses that answer my question. I can understand it is not your peace of cake to defend anything christian at all. May God bless you. Best regards, Hoffnung

310

Are they really that bad???

by anonymous4 in

had a good look into the doctrine, beliefs and practices of jws and to be honest, i don't really see anything wrong with it at all.. it's biblical and i've had such an eye opener the past year or so reading some of their books and magazines .

is there really any real reasons why i shouldn't want to get involved further?

:-).

Hoffnung

Hello Debator & Designs,

You failed to provide a reasoning based upon the scriptures, I asked you more then once. Thank you for confirming my thoughts. The hope to live forever in paradise on earth is not christian. Pauls spoke about one hope for all christians in Ephesians.

Best regards,

Hoffnung

57

December 15th WT gives example of sister who quit her job so she could go to an convention.

by life is to short in

i was beyond mad when i heard this.

it is on page 30 of the wt.. it says "a pioneer named roxana is one who has seen how jehovah provides for his people.

when she asked her employer for permission to take some days off to attend one of our conventions, he angrily retorted that if she went, he would fire her.

Hoffnung

Being a JW has become one big glorification of the Governing Body and their "truth". god has been downgraded to play a less significant role, so no need to capitalize him any more. It is very sad they still continue with their destructive influence on so many lives. They use one example where it worked out fine and ignore the majority of the cases where people get ruined by following their unreasonable policies.

310

Are they really that bad???

by anonymous4 in

had a good look into the doctrine, beliefs and practices of jws and to be honest, i don't really see anything wrong with it at all.. it's biblical and i've had such an eye opener the past year or so reading some of their books and magazines .

is there really any real reasons why i shouldn't want to get involved further?

:-).

Hoffnung

Hello designs,

Thank you for pointing out Revelation 21 & 22, about the new heavens & earth. How do you explain Rev 22:1-4: 22: And he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of its broad way. And on this side of the river and on that side [there were] trees of life producing twelve crops of fruit, yielding their fruits each month. And the leaves of the trees [were] for the curing of the nations. 3 And no more will there be any curse. But the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in [the city], and his slaves will render him sacred service; 4 and they will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.

I am definitely no scholar who has a ready explanation for understanding Revelation, but the very fact in verse 4 that Gods servants will see his face rules out the possibility they are fleshly humans, as no human can see Gods face and not perish. Furthermore, a river flowing from Gods throne in heaven through a city with trees on the side, are doubtless symbolic or fulfilled in a place which is not on the earth.

310

Are they really that bad???

by anonymous4 in

had a good look into the doctrine, beliefs and practices of jws and to be honest, i don't really see anything wrong with it at all.. it's biblical and i've had such an eye opener the past year or so reading some of their books and magazines .

is there really any real reasons why i shouldn't want to get involved further?

:-).

Hoffnung

Hi designs,

I could not care less about what is taught by religions. Having been a witness for more than 20 years was sufficient to know that the way to God will not be found by merely believing what a religion teaches. I am only interested to know what is "christian" according to the bible (which you cannot find in the hebrew scriptures, by the way). As your reply does not contain any verses from the Greek Scriptures, I believe you cannot prove either the hope to live forever in a paradise on earth from the Greek Scriptures. You are just confirming I should not believe this JW message. Your answer only attacks the character and motives of the person, and not the issue, and that is a common feature in a JW approach of doubt. Please contribute something meaningful and constructive, I am still waiting for a real answer.

310

Are they really that bad???

by anonymous4 in

had a good look into the doctrine, beliefs and practices of jws and to be honest, i don't really see anything wrong with it at all.. it's biblical and i've had such an eye opener the past year or so reading some of their books and magazines .

is there really any real reasons why i shouldn't want to get involved further?

:-).

Hoffnung

Hello Debator,

Your answer is not adressing my request. Please read my whole post again. Your reply never mentions the teachings of Paul or Peter. Why is the earthly hope never mentioned in their "good news"? Your reasoning that "The Hebrew scriptures are the framework the Greek scriptures are built upon, the shadow of things to come," was also true for Jesus, Peter, Paul and the other christian writers. However, as far as I know, the hope to live forever in a paradise on earth, was not their message. Jesus came here to fulfill the law, and by doing so, the Mosaic system was rendered invalid, unnecessary. The Hebrew Scriptures point to Jesus as the means of Blessing for all the nations. The poetic restoration prophecies in Psalms and Isaiah are already fulfilled long ago in the 6 century B.C.E. If they had an application in our time, Jesus, Paul and Peter would have mentioned them. Believing they will be fulfilled literally again without a basis in the Christian Greek Scriptures, is like believing in Santa Claus as an adult.

Your replies so far only have confirmed that the hope of living forever in Paradise on earth is not Christian.

Therefore I state my request once more: Please prove from the Christian Greek Scriptures alone, the hope of living in a paradise on earth

Yours Sincerely,

Hoffnung

PS: How God's will has to be done "on earth as it is in heaven", he explains in Matthew 25:35-36: " For I became hungry and YOU gave me something to eat; I got thirsty and YOU gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and YOU received me hospitably; 36 naked, and YOU clothed me. I fell sick and YOU looked after me. I was in prison and YOU came to me.’

It is OUR JOB to do this. Are you busy doing this...? Please answer 1st my request above.

310

Are they really that bad???

by anonymous4 in

had a good look into the doctrine, beliefs and practices of jws and to be honest, i don't really see anything wrong with it at all.. it's biblical and i've had such an eye opener the past year or so reading some of their books and magazines .

is there really any real reasons why i shouldn't want to get involved further?

:-).

Hoffnung

Hello Reniaa,

With reference to my reply on 13dec, I am still waiting for an answer on this one:

Please take your bible and read the many accounts of preaching by Paul and Peter in the book of Acts, and you will see they never ever mentioned the hope of surviving Armaggeddon to live forerver on Paradise Earth. ... please use alone the Christian Greek Scriptures.

Can you please prove me the paradise earth using only the Christian Greek Scriptures?

16

introduction

by pontoon in

lozasleft said i should introduce myself.

i wasn't happy my dad got baptized because i thought it would change him and i liked him the way he was.

anyway i got baptized in 1969 at 16 yrs old mainly because i wanted to be able to date jw girls.

Hoffnung

Welcome Pontoon,

Hang in there, you are not alone. I am pretty sure you have lots to share. Many are upset about the garbage and the untruths that are put in print by the GB at the moment.

Greetings from the European continent.