Posts by Hoffnung

46

The Watchtower, Christianity and Cultism

by Nickolas in

if you want to upset a jehovah's witness, refer to the watchtower as a sect.

if you really want to upset a jehovah's witness, refer to the watchtower as a cult.

that's pretty much a conversation stopper.. the watchtower denigrates the rest of christianity.

Hoffnung

Everything depends on your definition of a cult. Steven Hassan's books make this definition easier by adding the "mind-control" to it. I have just received his 2 books this week and I can recommend it to everybody. I learned many new things. As a JW, I can positively identify plenty of techniques used by the Watchtower Society which make it with great certainty a mind-control cult, even if they are not as agressive in their use as the moonies. I do not believe the catholic church could be called a mind-control cult in general. Maybe some factions or monastries are. But then again, I never was a Catholic. As a catholic, you can walk out any moment without repercussions on your emotional balance. You do not have to believe Armaggeddon is round the corner etc... It has not always been that way though, one has to admit. In some dark middle ages, mind control techniques were very visible amongs catholics.

As far as Jesus goes, whatever we find about him in the bible does not indicate the use of one of the mind-control techniques, so in my opinion, christianity in general is not a cult.

I think Godrulz would do good for himself and others on this board to read Steven Hassan's Combatting Cult Mind Control and explain us in which points his religion is using mind control techniques or not. I hope he BITEs in this challenge

Hoffnung

12

English-language congregations in non-English speaking countries

by dgp in

i am under the impression that english-language congregations outside of the united states must serve a purpose, other than just being the place where the missionaries can hang out and catch the occasional english speaker.

i think it's also a way to find the smarter guys in other countries and teach them the language and the jargon they will need if they ever climb up the watchtower corporate ladder.. what do people think?.

thanks.

Hoffnung

English speaking congregations will normally only be formed when there is enough english speaking territory (means: people to preach to). English speaking territory is not limited to people with english as their native language though. As many africans and asians speak english, due to immigration, you will find English congregations in all European cities larger than +/-200.000 inhabitants. If there are US or UK military bases, big chances there will be an english congo too.

119

Are JWs Who Join This Forum Expected to Tow the Accepted Line of

by believingxjw in

jw
friends

can those prominent in the "apostate" world be criticized?

we expect that jws be willing to read and swallow what is written here about their leaders and i agree with this.

but...do we also allow criticism of those taking the lead among us?

Hoffnung

If you got the boot... for bad behaviour..., you can register again, and as long as you behave, no problem to stay. Quite a few have done so. Something you cannot do as a JW as far as I know. If there really would be a big problem, people would walk off to other forums. There are enough out there. Otherwise I am grateful to have found a place where I can freely talk with others with similar experiences. There are no "apostate" leaders (other than sensationalist Rick Fearon, even I must respect his courage), most people here have had enough of being in an organized structure. There are just some with more experience and expertise who are offering their help, take or leave. If Randy, Ray or Brabara wanted to start a new religion of XJW, or being a leader of something, they would have done long time ago. Enjoy your freedom speech...in a responsible way, which means... behave...

6

Combating Destructive Mind Control Part III

by ABibleStudent in

quote from: chapter 8, how to help, pg 132. if someone you know and love becomes a member of a destructive cult, you will probably find yourself facing one of the toughest situations of your life.

in helping a person you love return to being himself, its easy to fall into mistakes that could make your job even harder.

if i was a former jw, i would help another family member or friend who is a jw by doing the following:.

Hoffnung

Being in the process of helping my wife out of the society, using soft and gentle techniques, after going to the same process myself, I can truly say maze has no idea what he is writing about.

If mind control does not exist or is not used by JW, why can a fomer JW not speak with a current JW about his current beliefs? Clearly one of the many proofs of mind control.

Hoffnung

36

"I never thought I would come that close to my retirement in this old system of things"

by Hoffnung in

some time ago i was at a family gathering.

my father and uncles are all long-time elders in their congregations.

when they were discussing they all were 50+ now, one of my uncles said: "i never thought i would come that close to my retirement in this old system of things".

Hoffnung

Hi all,

Thank you very much for the support. I would love to know how many of the olders ones in the congo's don't believe any more they will see the new system. The worst of it all that they never planned for anything, and still don't. Do nice stuff, enjoy yourselves a bit, as long as you still can!

Busterrb, so sad, but so true. As soon as you do not show your face in the KH any more, you have become worse than worldly, no matter what the reason is. Solidarity, love and care are very expensive words in JW land. The fine shepherd in the bible would leave 99 sheep behind to find the lost one, taking tenderly care of it. 1 shepherd - 100 sheep. For JW, 5 elders are not able to look after 60 sheep. Even if 3 get lost, they don't notice it. And if they stumble by coincidence, or because of the harping of some others, over a lost one, the beating rod of guilt tripping is used with much generosity to make it goes back on its own force. Very rarely particular needs are understood, and even then, they are never adressed. A telephone connection to the KH is the very best they can do, and that only to beef up attendance numbers.

So many fine people who spent all their good years for the society, are treated so badly when they turn older. heart-breaking is not strong enough as expression. Busterrb, thank you for sharing your story. This is the right place to get things of your chest. We all would like to hear more from you.

Hoffnung

36

"I never thought I would come that close to my retirement in this old system of things"

by Hoffnung in

some time ago i was at a family gathering.

my father and uncles are all long-time elders in their congregations.

when they were discussing they all were 50+ now, one of my uncles said: "i never thought i would come that close to my retirement in this old system of things".

Hoffnung

Some time ago I was at a family gathering. My father and uncles are all long-time elders in their congregations. When they were discussing they all were 50+ now, one of my uncles said: "I never thought I would come that close to my retirement in this old system of things". The others all agreed and expressed similar feelings. My parents and uncles and aunts all became witnesses in the hype before 75. This uncle of mine was actually very good in school, but broke off his college studies because Armageddon was so near. Since then he worked as a carpenter for another "brother" who just paid a little more than the minimum wage. He never saved anything, never bought a home. And of course their kids were told when reaching 6, they would never finish primary school, and when finishing that, they would never start working. All of them are working for more than 10 years now. But the end is so near!

Can't they see it? The promised paradise is not going to come in their life time, and not in mine either! It is all a bait to keep them on the edge and stop thinking. All these families have waisted their lives in slaving for a reward that's never going to come, and they expect of us to do the same. They could have used it better to build up something for themselves so they would have the means to have a very enjoyable old age.

The end will be poor and filled with desillusion, as so many have experienced before them. So sad..., but I can't help them. They would not listen.

52

Please do the following equation

by recovering in

Hoffnung

Oh, AnnOMaly came to the same result already. Great to have that confirmed.

52

Please do the following equation

by recovering in

Hoffnung

Nope.

6÷2(1+2)=x

the only part between parentheses is (1+2). 2x(1+2) is not between parentheses.

So:

6÷2(1+2)=x

6÷2x3=x

3x3=9

93

Undercover apostates...

by Maze in

i've observed some forum users here that claim to be active witnesses (even claims to be ministerial servants or elders) while duplicitously supporting apostates online.

my contention is this; why attend meetings and/or participate in the preaching activity when the second you divulge your apostate thinking into the congregation, you'll be disfellowshipped?

while this action taken may seem to be harsh, the outworking of events wouldn't be much different in one of christendom's churches.

Hoffnung

Hi Maze,

If the watchtower policies would allow JW to discuss doubts and alternative ideas freely amongst themselves, this board and many others would not exist. I am a born-in, my wife and I take care of my mother-in-law, who sits in a wheel chair, and my entire extended family are all "strong JW". I cannot leave without losing my family as well, and I am not ready for that, and I might never be. Who is going to take care of my MIL? The JW consider going from door-to-door way more important than caring for their fellows in the faith. Furthermore I don't think it would be very loving towards all these nice people to shock them by quitting. Even when there is a high price to pay in time and energy, and I have to weigh carefully every word I say, it is well worth it. Every day my wife and I continue this path undetected, it is a further proof, God has not much to do with the organization, governing body, etc. If God is involved at all with JW, then it is only on a very selective individual basis, the 'good' guys, if you want. There are not too many of those in the congregations I was part of. This board is the only place where I can share my thoughts and off-load my burdens, because only here, people understand what it's like. I am not an apostate, I am a victim, trapped in an organized structure that is becoming more un-christian every day. If you know an easy way out, please give us some help in finding it. If you can't help us, keep your labels like 'apostate' to yourselves. Your lack of empathy is quite evident. But JW are not unique in this respect, some born-again-christians display the same regretful attitude. What can I say, Jesus died for everybody, there is still some hope left. Have a nice day.

Hoffnung

21

If this doesn't scream cult, what does?

by LostGeneration in

from the now infamous 7.15.2011 wt.

page 28, para 16 and 17-. we can enter into jehovahs rest or join him in his restby obediently working in harmony with his advancing purpose as it is revealed to us through his organization.

(italics theirs-not mine).

Hoffnung

Did you also note the contradiction in this paragraph 16?

Paul said: "By this undeserved kindness, indeed, you have been
saved through faith; and this not owing to you, it is God’s gift. No, it is not owing to works".

The Faithful & Discrete Slave (same paragraph, italic theirs):

"We can enter into Jehovah’s rest —or join him in his rest—by obedientlyworking"

Do more, work more, slave for the slave. Make sure you deserve the "undeserved kindness", or else... Is it not great to be a Jehovah's Witness today? Can you feel the love?