he was an interesting presence on this board.
he had integral knowledge about bethel and the like.
i am an emotional guy too so i can kind of relate to why he left.. but, you gotta get thick skin on the forum.
This site has helped me so much; i really could have been in danger of drawing too close to the JWs.
Ziddina, thank you for your kindness and insight.
BrotherDan, your posts were the first things I read on this site, and I admired your openness and trust.
Outlaw, your pics and comments worried me bit made me think.
Please, friends, don't give those that say people are bitter and angry after leaving jws any more ammo.
Retro
i'm fully aware that this is a cult, and i was waiting for the social elements to kick in.
so far, i have just been doing the "bible study," discussing doctrine, etc.
however, recently one of the elders said he wants to get together with me to do other activities.
I'm watching this with great interest, as it's a bit like my situation.
The jw ladies who visit me for a "bible discussion" used to open with a prayer, but now sometimes forget to do it. They also come around every few weeks; no longer each weekend.
Also they pressured me hard to attend meetings, especially when the CO was there, but I didn't go. Mainly i'm a bit afraid because I'm a softie. I want to keep the dialogue going but could do without the pressure to be "helped".
Retro
this might sound a little strange but i hope some of you might understand.. my 17 year old boy is hot and heavy with his jw girlfriend.
he told me the other day that they had talked about getting married an two or three years, how they want to travel the world before having kids etc.
i asked him where getting baptised fitted into this, as they will need to be baptised if they want a kh wedding.
Hi fellow Aussie!
I'm probably the least qualified re JWs, but I did raise two kids as a single working mum. It seems to me that you've already started "deprogramming", and despite temporary hormone interruptions, that genie won't go back into the bottle.
Of course it's possible that he and his girl will become "laid-back", moderate jw's. But what i'm reading here is that the WT is increasing control. also a lot would depend on the girl and how much her family can influence her (assuming they are all "in").
Don't know the circumstances, but I doubt that Satanus' idea could be made to work. I was a very headstrong teenager once!
Most of all I'd urge you to stay close to your son. If possible, arrange outings and interests that he would miss as a "good jw". Keep him thinking and respect his opinions. If at all possible meet the girl and do the same.
Finally make sure that he knows you are always there for him, so that whatever happens, he has support outside the WT.
Best of luck, Retro
hi, i was just reading the.
flow chart - how to have a rational discussion thread, and my first thought was that the "you cheated" box was too confrontational for someone not used to logic.
then i realised that in all my discussions with my jw ladies, i'd been tiptoeing around my points for fear of scaring them off.
Yes, Outlaw, I do feel the pressure to agree! They do try to manipulate emotions but frankly these two aren't very good at it. You do it much better; your pics are scary!
Ziddina and BrokenPromises, thanks for your thoughts. I'm trying to understand the mentality, but don't seem to be able to learn fast enough. I am sure that I can't get anyone to leave, I'm more trying to scatter enough clues so that if or when they're ready they have something to go on. Seeing how the WT destroyed my brother's marriage and what their kids went through makes me want to do what I can; however little.
InterestedOne, thanks for that lead; I'll try to get them onto another doctrine and take it from there.
Retro
hi, i was just reading the.
flow chart - how to have a rational discussion thread, and my first thought was that the "you cheated" box was too confrontational for someone not used to logic.
then i realised that in all my discussions with my jw ladies, i'd been tiptoeing around my points for fear of scaring them off.
Thank you for your thoughts, and sorry if I'm rehashing stuff. It's just that when they discuss the Bible or moral standards, they come across as so authorative! Yet this fear is always hovering.
I try to broaden the discussion, to talk as friends would, about the garden, entertaining, books and movies etc. Yes, I do drag them off topic! At the same time, they ask questions to find out what's bothering me or worrying me; I believe, so they can provide the 'solution".
So we'll continue the dance.
Retro.
hi, i was just reading the.
flow chart - how to have a rational discussion thread, and my first thought was that the "you cheated" box was too confrontational for someone not used to logic.
then i realised that in all my discussions with my jw ladies, i'd been tiptoeing around my points for fear of scaring them off.
Hi, i was just reading the
thread, and my first thought was that the "you cheated" box was too confrontational for someone not used to logic. Then I realised that in all my discussions with my jw ladies, I'd been tiptoeing around my points for fear of scaring them off. And I don't understand why.
They visit in pairs, bring all their literature which I have to read so that we can talk about it. They will not even look at any of my sources.
Yet, they have an organisation to support and reinforce them, ongoing "study" and most of all, they believe that they are doing the will, and have the support of, the most powerful being in the universe.
So why the angst? and is this delicate approach the right way to deal with it?
Happy 2011 from
Retro
hypothetical scenario.
you are a city manager in a major metropolitan city with a population of 3,000,000.. .
if the governing body was truly convinced themselves of the impending disaster and the fact that the end is imminent would they not focus their efforts in spreading the message through effective means such as telephone, television, internet, social networks etc?
Thomas Covenant writes:
How would you feel about the 3,000 employees?
My limited experience tells me that most jws are honest, and trying to do right within the limits of their cognitive dissonance. It worked when I challenged my jw acquaintances about distributing material when they could not verify it's truthfulness.
The whole Nuremberg trials thing was about doing what you know is right, not just mindlessly carrying out orders for fear of consequences.
I believe that this might work, at least for "honest hearted ones"
Retro
"these child laborers are paid very little"... .
these jehovah`s witness child laborers.. .
are forced to work for free... "wbt$ child labor"... .
Marked, thank you!
There is a group of JWs who i've met twice on my morning walk. Each time they send a little pre-schooler to intercept me and give me a pamphlet; I'd take it because i didn't want to upset the kid.
Now I'm thinking, perhaps instead I could chat a little and finish with "it's been a long time, but nice to see you let the kids talk to apostates now!"
would that work, or is there a better way?
Retro
i am writing to my kids.
i have found it a good way to reach them with feelings at times and to let them know what is going on without emotions involved.. i have always told my kids that when and if they ever want to know what happened, ie; why i left their mother and the witnesses all they have to do is ask, and that i would be open and honest.. i feel that i am running out of time with them, esp my son who is so busy working, partying and chasing his girl that i don't see him like i used to.
so busy that he is not thinking and i am sure he will get baptised sooner than later to be in good with his jw girlfriend, and no asking is forthcoming.
Till now I never thought that this had anything to do with JWs - but - when my brother and SIL seperated, she rang each of us and our families and made sure we knew that he'd been unfaithful. Nearly wrecked our family get-together.
She also got the word around in the community where they lived. I had put this down to irrational bahaviour due to the pain of seperating.
So, definitly, I'd say your kids are entitled to know your version of what happened. Perhaps as others have suggested, not every detail, but your perspective.
Only other thought - your children probably do know more than you think; it's not possible to live in a house with a strained relationship and not be aware. My brothers kids were very affected by the time before the breakup, more so than the break itself.
Wishing for a good outcome, Retro
nothing profound in this thread.. just a simple "merry christmas" to those here who no longer consider it as something evil to be avoided.. the message goes out especially to those on the board:.
-- who never were allowed to celebrate christmas growing up.
-- who weren't allowed to say "merry christmas" back to "worldlies" who said it to them.
I've previously said that I have family issues, so Christmas can be tense at best, but
I had a couple of backpackers staying last week, and we made European cookies together, and we lit candles, had a glass of wine and ate the failures. . and suddenly it felt like the Christmases of my childhood. .
Merry Christmas, everyone!
