i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.
from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.
there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.
It’s funny…
…back in the 2000s and 2010s, there were suggestions in the literature that even some dutiful JWs might not make it through.
Looking back, that was when I first started asking myself “well, where TF’s the incentive to even be a JW, then?”
mark jones writes:.
how will history treat joseph rutherford?.
like ben gorden has said, it would depend on who’s looking back.
“How will history treat Judge Rutherford?”
Relegated to a footnote, at best.
i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.
from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.
there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.
It’s a helluva quandary…
…keep doubling down on all the old outdated hardline stances, and they can’t help but alienate more and more members (not to mention putting their tax-exemption at risk just when they’re experiencing serious financial difficulties)…
…but…
…keep watering things down the way they have, and before too long they’ll have effectively neutered all the things they held up as “proof” they had The Truth…
…up to and including the claim of “God’s Exclusive Earthly Organization”.
Either way, where’s the incentive to even be a Jehovah’s Witness?
i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.
from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.
there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.
jhine - “…what exactly was the point of telling people that it was too late for them and they were going to die?”
Schadenfreude.
for those who are still attending meetings, what is happening at your congregation regarding field service now that reporting of hours is no longer required?.
are the elders pushing for people to go out in service anyway?.
what is the response?.
It definitely feels like the hard-hitting-message and the eleventh-hour-salvation thing are at odds, or they’re waffling back and forth…
…but there is one possibility.
They may think that the “Hailstone” preaching will compel non-members (or former members) to get (re)join the fold at the last minute…
…because (and this is, admittedly, kind of out there) they’re reserving the “Hailstone” message as a response if/when insolvency forces them to shut down.
Sort of a “prop us back up or you’re Armageddon Toast” thing.
for those who are still attending meetings, what is happening at your congregation regarding field service now that reporting of hours is no longer required?.
are the elders pushing for people to go out in service anyway?.
what is the response?.
Magnum - “…Jeffro, do you remember how we discussed that on this forum maybe ten or twelve years ago? A lot us really thought the org had hired a PR firm back then. The changes were so drastic that I remember one poster (I think it was anddon'tcallmeshirley) wrote ‘What's next - congregation softball teams?’…”
Wait, yeah, that does ring a bell.
Sorry, I know I’m not Jeffro. ☺️
Magnum - “…I wish we could find some kind of evidence if they did hire a PR firm…”
Its been confirmed by a couple of (alleged) insiders, along with verification that Top-Shelf was let go ‘cause he wouldn’t play ball.
i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.
from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.
there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.
slimboyfat - “…Have they given it a new interpretation, abandoned the idea, or just ignored what they said previously?”
Well, considering how often the third option’s been exercised in the past…
😏
i been reading quite a few experiences on reddit lately, and their seems to be a common theme coming up….
…dialed-up-to-eleven shunning of xjws by their witness relatives.. it reminds me of back in the day, listening to some of the over-the-top vitriol displayed by hard-core loyalists when the topic of evolution or apostates came up….
…i was gobsmacked when i finally realized these guys weren’t offended and indignant because they thought it was lies….
redsetter2- "...the GB are already accepting responsibility that their message will provoke governments to attack them and shut them down. Most PIMI JWs didn't notice this message in the Watchtower, the Governing Body has had this plan for years to wipe themselves out if all else 'fails'."
“Goddammit, the Trib’s running late, and none of the NWO stormtroopers are burning down our Halls or raiding our basements to round up the sheep! We gotta somehow be even more offensive!”
Oh, oh, I just had a fun thought…
…what are the goofiest, most crazy-ass ideas we can come up with for a ridiculous, over-the-top Hail-Mary Hailstone Message?
😄
for those who are still attending meetings, what is happening at your congregation regarding field service now that reporting of hours is no longer required?.
are the elders pushing for people to go out in service anyway?.
what is the response?.
Mikejw - “…most of the congregation is the same these days on the fringes and nobody frowns on them, except a few die hard pioneers who moan that they don’t have any support on the ministry as nobody does door to door anymore.”
Wow.
I guess works-based tribal status just ain’t what it used to be anymore, huh?
😏
i've seen people say something along the lines that the authorities would like to/have been trying to subpoena (members of) the gb (in csa cases).
my question is: why don't they?
if the gb are issuing orders to cover up evidence in csa cases, and otherwise interfere in justice being served in those cases, then they are accessories before (and after) the fact, and theoretically can be arrested and charged as such.
It was never about dragging God’s name through the mud.
Years ago, the discovery that they’d quietly reversed their position on “former” offenders being restricted from congregation duties (because otherwise there wouldn’t be enough guys qualifying for said duties) helped hammer home just how widespread and embedded the problem actually had to be.
It was about keeping secular authorities and the rank-and-file from truly grasping this.
Secular authorities because the Org’s charity-status-slash-tax-exemption would be placed at risk*…
…and the rank-and-file because of how deeply the problem undermines the Org’s claims of legitimacy, authority, and primacy.
*I used to think that by now, the WT didn’t give a shit what “The World” thought about them. I have since revised that opinion.
