what's the longest amount of time you know of where a fader was out of the jw's and df'd later?
probably alot of factors in this.
could depend on how visible you are in your kh's town, the personality of the boe, what your "sins" were, what your "status" use to be, etc.
james_woods - "I believe they felt that the local congregations simply could not withstand the shock of 40 to 50 more disfellowshippings at that time."
They're probably right; it would have been a hell of a show. The local "apostates" would have sold tickets and made popcorn.
circuit overseers were supposed to be a thing of the past.
"presiding overseers" were supposed to take over.. there seem to be certain people "in the know" that reveal information and it may sound very convincing-- but is it??.
do you tend to believe what new posters say if they tell us about "new light" from the organization?.
There's been almost as many "inside information" claims as there have been declarations of the WT's impending catastrophic collapse.
Despite the fact that I suspect there are members of the Concious Class at Bethel who may very well pass info along, I tend to take news like this with an Optimus Prime-sized grain of salt.
despite its assurances to the media reporting on child sex abuse cases, the official wtbts policy on dealing with child molestation in the congregation has not actually changed.
the most recent direction given to congregation elders in dealing with child molestation allegations can be found in the 2010 revised edition of the secret for-elders'-eyes-only manual, shepherd the flock.
this direction is in direct violation of the law regarding how ministers are to handle allegations of child molestation.
The more they try to keep this kind of thing under wraps in the Information Age, the worse it will get. Organisms that cannot or will not adapt to a changing environment are doomed to extinction; there have been no exceptions in the long history of our planet. If some JWs are starting to feel like God is delaying the WT's "Big A", they need look no further for a reason why, as far as I'm concerned.
Ironically, my devout JW parents taught me from a very early age that God expects us all to live with the consequences of our actions. I recently asked my Mom if that principle applies to the WTS and GB, and she had to acknowledge that logically, yes, it would.
The WT took upon itself the mantle of God's Earthly Organization, but if that dubious claim even has a shred of truth, God (assuming He exists) is perfectly capable of withdrawing that mantle if said Organization doesn't hold up their end of the deal. As someone here once said, the WTS is not "too big to fail", even if the End of the World really is right around the corner.
"Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy dates in your name? Did we not expel apostates in your name? Did we not build a small but successful publishing empire in your name?" (apologies for paraphrasing)
quote:a man accidentally brought his loaded .40 caliber gun onto an airplane.
neither did the tsa, who completely missed it during its scan and allowed that plane to fly.
apparently, this happens a lot.. .
Your tax dollars at work...
what's the longest amount of time you know of where a fader was out of the jw's and df'd later?
probably alot of factors in this.
could depend on how visible you are in your kh's town, the personality of the boe, what your "sins" were, what your "status" use to be, etc.
wobble - "I think that the sad thing is, the Elders in their tiny power-crazed minds believe they can DF anyone regardless of how long they have left...Long term faders seem fairly safe if we do not make too many obvious waves, trouble is, I am making a few lately."
I brought up this very subject in my first post here last week, and followed it up with other thoughts at the end of the thread, but the subject seemed to fizzle out, and I got no further replies.
(http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/202922/2/Thought-Id-introduce-myself)
i suppose everyone on this board knows now about sebastian ramos and his campaign in brazil.
he has filed a claim agains religious discrimination, to the effect that shunning (not disfellowshipping or disassociation) is forbidden, on the grounds that it amounts to religious discrimination.. this is a very easy point to see for someone who is out.
it sort of extends the meaning of "religious discrimination", however, as it is usually understood.
dgp - "It goes beyond free speech or free thought. I hope it snowballs into something very big. "
Hmm. Maybe if it's played right...
this poor caller/christian had no chance.. .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo8eubj23dq.
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Heaven - "Religion has to have and use sex or how would it be able f*ck people over like it has for centuries?"
Pun intended?
Seriously, though, I would be more specific; conservative authoritarian religion; liberal/progressive religion doesn't seem to make a big deal about it(from what I've seen, anyway).
Demagogues (religious or otherwise) have always preferred their subjects direct their energies towards advancing "The Cause" (whatever that happens to be); a comfy, sexually satisfied populace isn't much inclined to take over the world (or at least, the demagogue's little corner of it), after all.
And lest anyone think that authoritarian regimes might actually want their subjects to breed like bunnies, remember, conversion (by whatever means) is generally faster than building up numbers through procreation. Historically, very few ARs have had that kind of long-term worldview; especially apocalyptic millennialist groups. There are a couple of exceptions, of course, like the "Quiverfull" movement.
it's difficult to feel much optimism now, with national economies so shaky and jobs so scarce - but read the headlines here.
http://news.bioscholar.com/2010/12/a-cure-for-baldness-could-be-available-in-5-years.html.
the greedy big drug companies and corrupt fda won't be able to stop the progress that is being made internationally on this subject.
Wouldn't be a kick in the balls if the promises of the "New System"- perfect health, longevity, etc. - were actually accomplished in this "Old System" by means of advances in medical science, like stem cell treatments, nanotechnology, cybernetics, and retroviral therapies (which - ironically - utilize an evolutionary model in their application)?
Being inherently conservative (and in their own way, superstitous), the vast majority of Millenialists (JWs included) assume - either implicitly or explicitly - that the End Times and Millenial Reign will manifest themselves in an overtly supernatural manner; the potentially negative results of climate change, unsustainable population growth, and the effects of Peak Oil, however, are fundamentally mundane "real-world" phenomena, as are the inevitable advances mentioned above.
Fundamentalists of all stripes would have a tremendously difficult time dealing with it.
i do not know how to scan the wt if someone can it would be great but i wrote it out verbatim .
i think what the wt says speaks for its self.
am i missing something and or reading something into what they are saying.
Heaven - "I smell desperation on the GB's part. "
I dunno if it's desperation, per se; but I'd be surprised if it doesn't have the effect of (intentionally or otherwise) winnowing out the CC by making it more and more unbearable for them to stay, thus leaving an increasingly higher percentage of faithful-to-the-core-but-not-particularly-bright among the R&F.
Downside (for the Org) is the brain-drain that inevitably results from actions like this; the smartest, most creative, and most talented JWs inevitably become members of the CC, inactive, faders, or DAd/DFd "apostates".
They'll end up being left with a worldwide body of morons.
just wrote a new blog post on the subject at freeminds, discussing why even creationists accept some evolutionary ideas without realizing it.... .
http://www.freeminds.org/blogs/a-gilead-grad-s-guide-to-leaving-jws/from-missionary-to-atheist-how-is-that-possible-part-2-all-about-evolution.html.
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tec - “I mean, is this everywhere, or is this mostly just a 'States' fear?”
If by “States fear”, you mean the evolution/creationism issue, than not as such, but it’s certainly anchored in the U.S.; American right-wingers (especially religious ones) are constantly kept in a state of fear (to varying degrees), it’s a fundamental and utterly necessary component of their worldview.
Evolution is highly threatening to them for reasons that I listed a few posts back.
What’s even more disturbing is that authoritarian regimes always find their strongest support from a fearful populace. Back in the ‘30s, author and futurist Sinclair Lewis once said “When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the Flag and carrying the Cross”.
I keep a close eye on American Right-Wing politics and its inherent authoritarian/religious nature (I’m Canadian, so any political fallout will inevitably spill over the border in my direction), and what I’ve been seeing in the U.S. lately gives me chills…
