this is interesting, i would love to hear of some experiences.
i was speaking with someone offline about their talking to someone and coming to find out that person was waking up/awake too.
the reason i find it interesting, is because it is such a fragile situation, a dance where the two people don't trust each other enough to just speak freely like they are afraid of being turned into the kgb.
Oubliette, what's your thoughts on this?
I think O's out to lunch right now. I'll try to fill in for the time being. I think it goes something like this:
"let's evaluate, examine, and analyze JWs - you'll find that they possess many of the same traits as other unduely influenced, indoctrinated groups of people."
something like that.
I've never had an experience as the one you mention, but I've often dreamed about running into an old JW friend who has awoken. We'd have so much to catch up on.
the past week has been hell for me.
my mother started feeling ill and we went to seek medical assistance.
we live in the mountains and the nearest large hospital is about 150 kms away.
Cookie I'm relieved that this worked out for the good. You had me on the edge of my seat as I read about it. I will read this to my JW wife tonight. I have individually discussed the blood issue with all of my JW family - showing them from many different angles how JWs are wrong. I thought I should do this in preparation for an unforeseen occurance such as yours. JWs prepare others ahead of time for this, so why shouldn't we? My JW son (who kinda shuns me a little) remarked that he didn't know what he would do if his 1 yr old boy needed blood. He said he would pray first, look at alternatives, then he said he WOULD give blood as a last resort. So hooray! I'm making some progress! My wife already realizes JW doctrines are wrong but is afraid to act on it.
Please keep us posted about further developments with your dear mother.
why are there no jehovah's witnesses in heaven?.
because god and saint peter are behind the gates saying, "sssshhhhhh!
pretend we are not in!!
A little JW boy goes to his mom one day and asks, "Why do JWs hide pedophiles?"
His mother whacks him on the butt and says, "that's what apostates say! Go tell your Daddy what you just said!"
The boy goes into the living room and asks, "Why do JWs hide pedophiles, Papa?"
His Daddy smacks him on the back of the head and says, "Boy, that's what apostates say! Now you go tell your grandma what you just said!"
"Gramma, why do JWs hide pedophiles?"
She slaps his face and says "You sound just like an apostate" and sends him back to his mom.
His mother says "Well...did you learn somethig from all this?"
The boy shakes his head and says, "I guess I did. I've only been an apostate for 5 minutes and I already hate you JWs!"
this question is known to be posed by jws to other jws as an acid test of loyalty.
i'm not the first to notice what i'm about to point out and comment accordingly, but today i felt compelled to add a short article on my blog highlighting the new language that governing body member geoffrey jackson supplies as a response.
a person who honestly hesitates to respond with a robust "yes!
Marvin - this thought just came to me: I wonder how Jackson himself would respond to your reference if he was presiding over your judicial committee?
And maybe this is irrelevant to the discussion but it still tends to put things in perspective:
my dad used to always say "it's not going to make any difference a hundred years from now".
All things must pass. JWs are like the Millerites... and they will fizzle out too.
about a month ago i posted what had happened to two elderly sisters who were reprimanded by a couple of elders for crying because the jw broadcasting was going to be stopped at the kingdom hall and it was up to each publisher to learn how to use the internet.
if you recall the sisters got together with my mom and talked about it and it resulted in all of them declining to make meals for the pioneers.
here is the link.
Good News for all mankind!
A good reminder for everyone to be a good redneck and keep both your dog and your wallet on a chain.
John - please keep us updated when this actually happens. You've got our hopes up and we're awaiting confirmation!
in his testimony before the royal commission geoffrey jackson said he did not have the answer to the question posed to him regarding deuteronomy 22:25-27 and was unable to ask jesus at this time.
two things stand out to me about this piece of jackson's testimony.
1. he said he could not ask jesus.
yes you're right, - it does seem to invoke false dilemma. Maybe the "circumstantial evidence" that is left out in this text is the woman's emotional condition itself, who can say... but for me to interject that just shows it's a false dilemma again. So are you saying, Marvin, that to use this to impose a modern reality in a settlement dispute would also be wrong? Maybe you're right in that case. Never thought about that. Good point...Jackson should have picked up on that. Angus took a gamble to even bring up that scripture. But for Jackson, as Guardian of Doctrin, not to be able to make a defense before everyone who demands a reason for the hope in him is very telling also.
But also, we must remember that this law in Deut. does not stand on its own. The law applies to Israel at THAT time; ignoring pre law and post law fullfillment of Christ teachings. I think Romans 13 makes clear we are to obey the just laws imposed by a just governmental system. I believe all child abuse cases should be turned over to secular (and yes, "superior") authorities to be decided by professionals.
And when you mentioned Jackson not being able to ask Jesus, the scriptures that immediately popped into my mind were:
John 14:
23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching.
25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
lostwun here, i joined 2 months ago but am now just finding the courage after doing more research to formally introduce myself to the board and embrace my new beginnings as an ex-jw.
i am a second-generation jw.
i grew up with parents who are well known and very respected in many circuits.
"I feel like i received a virtual hug when i needed it the most"
MANY hugs and more to come. I just joined myself not long ago after lurking for many months on various "apostate sites". But I so far have found this to be a tight-knit and compassionate bunch of human beings who understand what each other has been through and are here to not only support each other, but to laugh with you, cry with you, and not let you go through this alone.
I too send you greetings and hugs. :)
so i ran into this brother whom ive known for a while and the conversation led into me being invited to come back to the kingdom hall.
we talked for about an hour during which time i explained to him 607 being the wrong date and a lot of other stuff including the child abuse cases in australia.
but what i wanted to relate was the last few minutes of our conversation.
First of all I wouldn't allow him to ramble on so long without 'overcoming his objections'. He covered so many subjects it's hard to know where to begin.
But just for starters, I would have stopped him a few times and asked such questions as these:
would you want your family to die with a FALSE hope based on following blind guides? ....guides who cannot seem to make up their mind about anything except that THEY are the only ones to be followed... on threat of d/f and losing your beloved family?
Do you really want your faith to not be founded on anything except the "good feeling" it brings you?
It's not without reason that Jesus warned against this. For example, he talked about those who accumulated teachers to tickle their ears. And when asked about the last days of this "wicked" system as you call it, his very FIRST sign was that others would try to mislead you and would put THEMSELVES as the spokesperson for Jesus. Does WT do this? And would YOU want your family to be caught in that position when he returned?
And then I would say: Let me ask YOU a question ....Would YOU personally cut off one of your beloved family if they decided NOT to follow WT teachings? The RC stated that one of the cruelest things a person could do to another human being is to SHUN them. This can cause untold psychological trauma and suicide. RC called WT a "captive organization" because of such policies. Do you think this policy could possibly "disrupt the peace" your family has?
has anyone here re-watched that last day?
the part where justice mcclellan is asking mr jackson if he feels that this royal commission is a sincere effort to make some good changes in policy...?.
and does mr jackson feel it would be worth it to put a collective effort, along with other organizations to compensate or find means of redress, for the victims of child sexual abuse?.
Angus took Jackson prisoner and held him hostage. And i can't help thinking he did it for all of us.
when angus turned his back, I thought to myself: AHA! it looks like that sucker is DELIBERATELY ignoring GJ! I wonder what he's up to? Looks like he's creating a moment of tension. And Jackson took the bait, stopped and got annoyed! I was amazed that Angus never once looked up at Jackson - just mumbled something: "yes yes continue"... still looking down and fumbling with some papers. But the best part was after Jackson shut up, the silence was deafening as Angus still ignored what Jackson had just said for a long time until Jackson finally broke the silence by asking if he should explain what he'd just said. Angus never looked up, just said something like "yeah, if you want to".
Angus OWNED jackson in that moment and I believe he did it for us. Jackson must've felt like he just got ate by a wolf and sh*t over a cliff! We owe him one!!
i am fuming at the moment and my wife has made me so angry.. i live in germany and an ex jw, a friend of mine is also ex jw but does not understand english so i was giving him a rundown on the friday session of the rc with gj.
my wife was in another part of the house but heard my phone ring and so she came to listen, i did not realize this, because when the phone rang i closed two doors between myself and my wife.
she opened the first door and started listening to the conversation.
Men, said the Devil,
are good to their brothers:
they don’t want to mend
their own ways, but each other's.
-- Piet Hein
