i'm still working my way through the videos..... this has probably been covered before but had anyone else ever heard them use this phrase before?
not me... but it's a clever and as per usual misleading choice of words.. if they are indeed guardians of doctrine, they are very poor ones.
if so jws would believe the same thing now that they did in 1879 and we all know that's not true.
I was thinking about what 'Guardians of Doctrine' might mean. We know that anyone who disagrees with current WT teachings/understandings is labeled apostate and swiftly dealt with accordingly...so maybe that's what guarding their doctrine means...they'll d/f anybody brave enough to challenge them... I'm not sure.
But if that is so, then all the more reason for Oubliette to post the infamous "Let's review: It's a cult!" comment. lol
the article is a good summary to show people who are too busy to read the transcript.
the main points are covered, without jackson's waffling... this is my favourite quote:.
jackson also testified that while there havent been any particular discussion among church leadership about apologizing to victims of sexual abuse, its perceivable that they might consider doing so.
Oogie said: I love reading all the comments on sites like that.
One of the comments from the above article (from Stephocles) stated very well how JWs bring this spiritual dilemma upon themselves by treating child abuse as a SIN instead of a CRIME. Treating this as a sin allows them to forgive the pedophile and even eventually appointing him as an elder.
Stephocles commented: It’s disgusting that so many church people choose to believe that these issues can be settled with counseling and prayer.
Turns my stomach.
As if a survivor’s life is some kind of learning experience on a perv adult’s “faith journey.”
this is interesting, i would love to hear of some experiences.
i was speaking with someone offline about their talking to someone and coming to find out that person was waking up/awake too.
the reason i find it interesting, is because it is such a fragile situation, a dance where the two people don't trust each other enough to just speak freely like they are afraid of being turned into the kgb.
because it is such a fragile situation, a dance where the two people don't trust each other enough to just speak freely like they are afraid of being turned into the KGB. And really for good reason.
DesirousOfChange said this should set off alarm bells to anyone. And I think all of us here on this site know what 'distrust and suspicion' feels like at a KH. A feeling that something is just not right with this "brotherhood".
At Woodstock in 1969 a reporter was questioning Michael Lang and Artie Kornfeld, wondering why they seem so happy. Kornfeld said, in part:
"...to really realize what’s really important…The fact that if we can’t all live together and be happy, if you have to be afraid to walk out in the street, if you have to be afraid to smile at somebody, right, well, what kind of a way is that to go through this life?”
I can't put it better than that.
this is interesting, i would love to hear of some experiences.
i was speaking with someone offline about their talking to someone and coming to find out that person was waking up/awake too.
the reason i find it interesting, is because it is such a fragile situation, a dance where the two people don't trust each other enough to just speak freely like they are afraid of being turned into the kgb.
Oubliette, what's your thoughts on this?
I think O's out to lunch right now. I'll try to fill in for the time being. I think it goes something like this:
"let's evaluate, examine, and analyze JWs - you'll find that they possess many of the same traits as other unduely influenced, indoctrinated groups of people."
something like that.
I've never had an experience as the one you mention, but I've often dreamed about running into an old JW friend who has awoken. We'd have so much to catch up on.
the past week has been hell for me.
my mother started feeling ill and we went to seek medical assistance.
we live in the mountains and the nearest large hospital is about 150 kms away.
Cookie I'm relieved that this worked out for the good. You had me on the edge of my seat as I read about it. I will read this to my JW wife tonight. I have individually discussed the blood issue with all of my JW family - showing them from many different angles how JWs are wrong. I thought I should do this in preparation for an unforeseen occurance such as yours. JWs prepare others ahead of time for this, so why shouldn't we? My JW son (who kinda shuns me a little) remarked that he didn't know what he would do if his 1 yr old boy needed blood. He said he would pray first, look at alternatives, then he said he WOULD give blood as a last resort. So hooray! I'm making some progress! My wife already realizes JW doctrines are wrong but is afraid to act on it.
Please keep us posted about further developments with your dear mother.
why are there no jehovah's witnesses in heaven?.
because god and saint peter are behind the gates saying, "sssshhhhhh!
pretend we are not in!!
A little JW boy goes to his mom one day and asks, "Why do JWs hide pedophiles?"
His mother whacks him on the butt and says, "that's what apostates say! Go tell your Daddy what you just said!"
The boy goes into the living room and asks, "Why do JWs hide pedophiles, Papa?"
His Daddy smacks him on the back of the head and says, "Boy, that's what apostates say! Now you go tell your grandma what you just said!"
"Gramma, why do JWs hide pedophiles?"
She slaps his face and says "You sound just like an apostate" and sends him back to his mom.
His mother says "Well...did you learn somethig from all this?"
The boy shakes his head and says, "I guess I did. I've only been an apostate for 5 minutes and I already hate you JWs!"
this question is known to be posed by jws to other jws as an acid test of loyalty.
i'm not the first to notice what i'm about to point out and comment accordingly, but today i felt compelled to add a short article on my blog highlighting the new language that governing body member geoffrey jackson supplies as a response.
a person who honestly hesitates to respond with a robust "yes!
Marvin - this thought just came to me: I wonder how Jackson himself would respond to your reference if he was presiding over your judicial committee?
And maybe this is irrelevant to the discussion but it still tends to put things in perspective:
my dad used to always say "it's not going to make any difference a hundred years from now".
All things must pass. JWs are like the Millerites... and they will fizzle out too.
about a month ago i posted what had happened to two elderly sisters who were reprimanded by a couple of elders for crying because the jw broadcasting was going to be stopped at the kingdom hall and it was up to each publisher to learn how to use the internet.
if you recall the sisters got together with my mom and talked about it and it resulted in all of them declining to make meals for the pioneers.
here is the link.
Good News for all mankind!
A good reminder for everyone to be a good redneck and keep both your dog and your wallet on a chain.
John - please keep us updated when this actually happens. You've got our hopes up and we're awaiting confirmation!
in his testimony before the royal commission geoffrey jackson said he did not have the answer to the question posed to him regarding deuteronomy 22:25-27 and was unable to ask jesus at this time.
two things stand out to me about this piece of jackson's testimony.
1. he said he could not ask jesus.
yes you're right, - it does seem to invoke false dilemma. Maybe the "circumstantial evidence" that is left out in this text is the woman's emotional condition itself, who can say... but for me to interject that just shows it's a false dilemma again. So are you saying, Marvin, that to use this to impose a modern reality in a settlement dispute would also be wrong? Maybe you're right in that case. Never thought about that. Good point...Jackson should have picked up on that. Angus took a gamble to even bring up that scripture. But for Jackson, as Guardian of Doctrin, not to be able to make a defense before everyone who demands a reason for the hope in him is very telling also.
But also, we must remember that this law in Deut. does not stand on its own. The law applies to Israel at THAT time; ignoring pre law and post law fullfillment of Christ teachings. I think Romans 13 makes clear we are to obey the just laws imposed by a just governmental system. I believe all child abuse cases should be turned over to secular (and yes, "superior") authorities to be decided by professionals.
And when you mentioned Jackson not being able to ask Jesus, the scriptures that immediately popped into my mind were:
John 14:
23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching.
25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
lostwun here, i joined 2 months ago but am now just finding the courage after doing more research to formally introduce myself to the board and embrace my new beginnings as an ex-jw.
i am a second-generation jw.
i grew up with parents who are well known and very respected in many circuits.
"I feel like i received a virtual hug when i needed it the most"
MANY hugs and more to come. I just joined myself not long ago after lurking for many months on various "apostate sites". But I so far have found this to be a tight-knit and compassionate bunch of human beings who understand what each other has been through and are here to not only support each other, but to laugh with you, cry with you, and not let you go through this alone.
I too send you greetings and hugs. :)
