Posts by Dumplin

13

Jehovah's Witness Leader: There's a 'Spiritual Dilemma' in Reporting Sexual Abuse

by defender of truth in

the article is a good summary to show people who are too busy to read the transcript.

the main points are covered, without jackson's waffling... this is my favourite quote:.

jackson also testified that while there havent been any particular discussion among church leadership about apologizing to victims of sexual abuse, its perceivable that they might consider doing so.

Dumplin

Oogie said: I love reading all the comments on sites like that.

One of the comments from the above article (from Stephocles) stated very well how JWs bring this spiritual dilemma upon themselves by treating child abuse as a SIN instead of a CRIME. Treating this as a sin allows them to forgive the pedophile and even eventually appointing him as an elder.

Stephocles commented: It’s disgusting that so many church people choose to believe that these issues can be settled with counseling and prayer.
Turns my stomach.

As if a survivor’s life is some kind of learning experience on a perv adult’s “faith journey.”

11

Experiences Of Speaking To Another Awake Witness Without Knowing It

by freemindfade in

this is interesting, i would love to hear of some experiences.

i was speaking with someone offline about their talking to someone and coming to find out that person was waking up/awake too.

the reason i find it interesting, is because it is such a fragile situation, a dance where the two people don't trust each other enough to just speak freely like they are afraid of being turned into the kgb.

Dumplin

because it is such a fragile situation, a dance where the two people don't trust each other enough to just speak freely like they are afraid of being turned into the KGB. And really for good reason.

DesirousOfChange said this should set off alarm bells to anyone. And I think all of us here on this site know what 'distrust and suspicion' feels like at a KH. A feeling that something is just not right with this "brotherhood".

At Woodstock in 1969 a reporter was questioning Michael Lang and Artie Kornfeld, wondering why they seem so happy. Kornfeld said, in part:
"...to really realize what’s really important…The fact that if we can’t all live together and be happy, if you have to be afraid to walk out in the street, if you have to be afraid to smile at somebody, right, well, what kind of a way is that to go through this life?”

I can't put it better than that.

11

Experiences Of Speaking To Another Awake Witness Without Knowing It

by freemindfade in

this is interesting, i would love to hear of some experiences.

i was speaking with someone offline about their talking to someone and coming to find out that person was waking up/awake too.

the reason i find it interesting, is because it is such a fragile situation, a dance where the two people don't trust each other enough to just speak freely like they are afraid of being turned into the kgb.

Dumplin

Oubliette, what's your thoughts on this?

I think O's out to lunch right now. I'll try to fill in for the time being. I think it goes something like this:

"let's evaluate, examine, and analyze JWs - you'll find that they possess many of the same traits as other unduely influenced, indoctrinated groups of people."

something like that.

I've never had an experience as the one you mention, but I've often dreamed about running into an old JW friend who has awoken. We'd have so much to catch up on.

46

JWs nearly killed my mother

by cookiemaster in

the past week has been hell for me.

my mother started feeling ill and we went to seek medical assistance.

we live in the mountains and the nearest large hospital is about 150 kms away.

Dumplin

Cookie I'm relieved that this worked out for the good. You had me on the edge of my seat as I read about it. I will read this to my JW wife tonight. I have individually discussed the blood issue with all of my JW family - showing them from many different angles how JWs are wrong. I thought I should do this in preparation for an unforeseen occurance such as yours. JWs prepare others ahead of time for this, so why shouldn't we? My JW son (who kinda shuns me a little) remarked that he didn't know what he would do if his 1 yr old boy needed blood. He said he would pray first, look at alternatives, then he said he WOULD give blood as a last resort. So hooray! I'm making some progress! My wife already realizes JW doctrines are wrong but is afraid to act on it.

Please keep us posted about further developments with your dear mother.

9

On the Lighter Side...

by apostrate in

why are there no jehovah's witnesses in heaven?.

because god and saint peter are behind the gates saying, "sssshhhhhh!

pretend we are not in!!

Dumplin

A little JW boy goes to his mom one day and asks, "Why do JWs hide pedophiles?"

His mother whacks him on the butt and says, "that's what apostates say! Go tell your Daddy what you just said!"

The boy goes into the living room and asks, "Why do JWs hide pedophiles, Papa?"

His Daddy smacks him on the back of the head and says, "Boy, that's what apostates say! Now you go tell your grandma what you just said!"

"Gramma, why do JWs hide pedophiles?"
She slaps his face and says "You sound just like an apostate" and sends him back to his mom.

His mother says "Well...did you learn somethig from all this?"

The boy shakes his head and says, "I guess I did. I've only been an apostate for 5 minutes and I already hate you JWs!"

81

Do you believe Jehovah's Witnesses' Governing Body is the "faithful slave"?

by Marvin Shilmer in

this question is known to be posed by jws to other jws as an acid test of loyalty.

i'm not the first to notice what i'm about to point out and comment accordingly, but today i felt compelled to add a short article on my blog highlighting the new language that governing body member geoffrey jackson supplies as a response.

a person who honestly hesitates to respond with a robust "yes!

Dumplin

Marvin - this thought just came to me: I wonder how Jackson himself would respond to your reference if he was presiding over your judicial committee?

And maybe this is irrelevant to the discussion but it still tends to put things in perspective:

my dad used to always say "it's not going to make any difference a hundred years from now".

All things must pass. JWs are like the Millerites... and they will fizzle out too.

37

Remember the two elderly sisters?

by John Aquila in

about a month ago i posted what had happened to two elderly sisters who were reprimanded by a couple of elders for crying because the jw broadcasting was going to be stopped at the kingdom hall and it was up to each publisher to learn how to use the internet.

if you recall the sisters got together with my mom and talked about it and it resulted in all of them declining to make meals for the pioneers.

here is the link.

Dumplin

Good News for all mankind!

A good reminder for everyone to be a good redneck and keep both your dog and your wallet on a chain.

John - please keep us updated when this actually happens. You've got our hopes up and we're awaiting confirmation!

14

Jackson on Deuteronomy 22 and "two witnesses"

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

in his testimony before the royal commission geoffrey jackson said he did not have the answer to the question posed to him regarding deuteronomy 22:25-27 and was unable to ask jesus at this time.

two things stand out to me about this piece of jackson's testimony.

1. he said he could not ask jesus.

Dumplin

yes you're right, - it does seem to invoke false dilemma. Maybe the "circumstantial evidence" that is left out in this text is the woman's emotional condition itself, who can say... but for me to interject that just shows it's a false dilemma again. So are you saying, Marvin, that to use this to impose a modern reality in a settlement dispute would also be wrong? Maybe you're right in that case. Never thought about that. Good point...Jackson should have picked up on that. Angus took a gamble to even bring up that scripture. But for Jackson, as Guardian of Doctrin, not to be able to make a defense before everyone who demands a reason for the hope in him is very telling also.

But also, we must remember that this law in Deut. does not stand on its own. The law applies to Israel at THAT time; ignoring pre law and post law fullfillment of Christ teachings. I think Romans 13 makes clear we are to obey the just laws imposed by a just governmental system. I believe all child abuse cases should be turned over to secular (and yes, "superior") authorities to be decided by professionals.

And when you mentioned Jackson not being able to ask Jesus, the scriptures that immediately popped into my mind were:
John 14:
23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching.
25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

45

New Inactive One Saying Hello to all

by Lostwun in

jw
friends

lostwun here, i joined 2 months ago but am now just finding the courage after doing more research to formally introduce myself to the board and embrace my new beginnings as an ex-jw.

i am a second-generation jw.

i grew up with parents who are well known and very respected in many circuits.

Dumplin

"I feel like i received a virtual hug when i needed it the most"

MANY hugs and more to come. I just joined myself not long ago after lurking for many months on various "apostate sites". But I so far have found this to be a tight-knit and compassionate bunch of human beings who understand what each other has been through and are here to not only support each other, but to laugh with you, cry with you, and not let you go through this alone.

I too send you greetings and hugs. :)

78

I believe that the greater percentage of JWs-You Will Not Be Able to Help, no Matter What Facts You Show Them.

by John Aquila in

so i ran into this brother whom ive known for a while and the conversation led into me being invited to come back to the kingdom hall.

we talked for about an hour during which time i explained to him 607 being the wrong date and a lot of other stuff including the child abuse cases in australia.

but what i wanted to relate was the last few minutes of our conversation.

Dumplin

First of all I wouldn't allow him to ramble on so long without 'overcoming his objections'. He covered so many subjects it's hard to know where to begin.

But just for starters, I would have stopped him a few times and asked such questions as these:

would you want your family to die with a FALSE hope based on following blind guides? ....guides who cannot seem to make up their mind about anything except that THEY are the only ones to be followed... on threat of d/f and losing your beloved family?

Do you really want your faith to not be founded on anything except the "good feeling" it brings you?

It's not without reason that Jesus warned against this. For example, he talked about those who accumulated teachers to tickle their ears. And when asked about the last days of this "wicked" system as you call it, his very FIRST sign was that others would try to mislead you and would put THEMSELVES as the spokesperson for Jesus. Does WT do this? And would YOU want your family to be caught in that position when he returned?

And then I would say: Let me ask YOU a question ....Would YOU personally cut off one of your beloved family if they decided NOT to follow WT teachings? The RC stated that one of the cruelest things a person could do to another human being is to SHUN them. This can cause untold psychological trauma and suicide. RC called WT a "captive organization" because of such policies. Do you think this policy could possibly "disrupt the peace" your family has?