Nestor Kuilan who was a close friend of Rene and a member of the 1980 "apostasy" group that was expelled has a channel in YouTube. Perhaps you can send him a message.
krismalone
JoinedPosts by krismalone
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Rene Vazquez
by Etude indoes anybody know how to get in touch with him, if he's still alive?
yes, that's the rene that's mentioned in the franz's "crisis of conscience" i think i knew him better than he knew me, way back when.
i feel regret that i didn't approach him many years ago when i saw him on the street.
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Mexico branch......Now closing!!!
by krismalone ina circuit overseer friend of mine serving in latin america called me today to say hi.
i asked him what's new and he dropped the news that they have received notification that the branch in mexico will be closing!!
this branch also called the central american branch (although located in mexico) oversees all of mexico's 800,000+ publishers plus all 7 countries of central america of over 100,000 publishers.
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krismalone
A circuit overseer friend of mine serving in Latin America called me today to say hi. I asked him what's new and he dropped the news that they have received notification that the branch in Mexico will be closing!!
This branch also called the Central American branch (although located in Mexico) oversees all of Mexico's 800,000+ publishers plus all 7 countries of Central America of over 100,000 publishers. He told me that the Governing Body wants to direct everything from N.Y.
Another news flash was that the Governing Body will soon require all young Circuit Overseers to work for themselves and support themselves financially. The older ones will not be required to do so but only the younger ones.
3rd point mentioned was that the Governing Body wants the Circuit Overseers to work more independently, in other words not depend so much on the branch for direction. Perhaps to avoid liability and lawsuits.
My friend sounded so discouraged and very tired emotionally and burned out. He said he's ready to step down as a Circuit Overseer after over 2 decades of traveling work. He does not want to wait to be 70 to leave the Circuit work.
How can the Watchtower encourage young ones to pursue goals such as Missionaries, Special Pioneers, Bethelites and Circuit Overseers when they will leave them dead in the water without any financial support after giving their best years to the Watchtower Corporation? Those privileges don't mean anything anymore.
All this indicates that the Watchtower is hurting for money.
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1975 statements
by A Believer infrom jw org.
“six thousand years of human existence”.
in 1969 the watchtower magazine in czech began publishing a series of articles based on the book life everlasting—in freedom of the sons of god.
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krismalone
May 1974 KM - WT commends those who are selling their home and serving where the need is great. Great way to spend the short time of this system has left is what they said.
May 22,1969 Awake- Youths are told that they need to face the fact that they "will never get old in this system of things". So why take up a college education that will take 4-6 years. This system will be already gone by then.
Life Everlasting & freedom p.29 - It would be "appropriate" for God to bring the end by 1975. It would "not be a coincidence" if armageddon came in 1975.
The GB are masters of double speak. They strongly encouraged the probability that 1975 would bring the end. But they also used weasel words such as " it could be but we are not saying". That way if it did happen they would claim they had predicted it accurately...and if it failed...they can claim they never said it. Instead blame the followers. You can youtube the word "1975 watchtower" and you can hear talks given by Fred Franz and a District overseer Sunutko and after listening to those talks reach your own conclusions.
Why did the GB issue a half ass apology in the 1980 YB p.7 or 17 in digital form and in the W80 3/15? They knew that they were responsible but only offered a half ass apology. Typical of cult leaders that keep the masses in control.
Was the district overseer removed for giving that talk where he specifically stated that 1975 would be the end? NO...instead he continued as a traveling rep of the WT. That same district overseer died in good standing with the cult in southern CA.
How about Fred Franz...was he disciplined for coming up with that false prophecy and causing hundreds of thousands financial hardship and distress? NO! Instead he was promoted to President of the Watchtower Society.
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Shunning
by A Believer inyou guys do know that if you just leave and never go back you wont be disfellowshiped right?
i know people who have done exactly this.
you have to commit a sin and you or someone else has to tell a elder.
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krismalone
A believer,
Up until 1989, the GB sold the literature. The publishers would purchase the publications for a specific price (Pioneers would get a discount).The literature servant would collect the money for the publications from the publishers. Now if the publishers wanted to get reimbursed and ask for the contribution from the householder or give it away free that was their business. They could also get the literature by credit and the literature servant would hound them later for the money. The bottom line was that the GB got their money.
In 1989 the U.S. government sued Jimmy Swaggart for back taxes from his sales of literature. The GB got scared as they knew if Swaggart lost, that would also mean that they would have to pay taxes for all those decades of selling literature. They even filed a document in favor of Swaggart called "friend of the court". This document tells the world they are supporting Swaggart in this case. Since he lost, the GB suddenly tells the Congregations through a letter that they no longer sell the literature but instead give it out free or for a voluntary donation. This way they allow the poor to have access to the truth and they do not appear to be like Christendom. THIS WAS A LIE!! Other countries where the tax issue wasn't a problem.....THEY CONTINUED SELLING THE PUBLICATIONS!!
This is only one of many lies and scandals that the GB has carried on.
The GB has caused a lot of needless deaths and suffering through their policies. Such as:
01. Telling members not to marry and have children (Salvation p.325) How many JW's were affected and suffered because of this? The GB doesn't care nor will they apologize!
02. Forbidding vaccinations on the false premise that blood was involved. How many JW's died or suffered Polio and other infirmities? GB says WHO CARES! and don't expect an apology.
03. Forbidding Organ transplants from 1960's through 1980 as "cannibalism". How many JW's died because of this? GB says....just shut up and don't expect an apology.
04. Forbidding RH factor (blood fraction) for hemophiliacs...How many died because of this policy? GB says ...SHUT THE F**K up and just obey us. Oh and don't expect an apology.
05. Forbidding alternative military service....Many young men and women were incarcerated because of this only to later have it reversed. If they didn't obey, they would be disfellowshipped and labelled an evil mentally diseased person.
06. Constant criticism of Higher education....Many JW's are living in poverty and struggling everyday paycheck to paycheck because of this. Those that dare to get higher education are frowned upon and seen with suspicion.
We also have the Malawi/Mexico double standards of the GB and many many more policies that prove that the GB are delusional, hateful men only worried about protecting their power.
JW's are slaves of men and those same men allow their love of power and control to continue the scam.
Jim Jones killed less than 1000....The GB has killed and hurt hundreds of thousands if not millions. Exact amount will never be known due to their secrecy.
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Shunning
by A Believer inyou guys do know that if you just leave and never go back you wont be disfellowshiped right?
i know people who have done exactly this.
you have to commit a sin and you or someone else has to tell a elder.
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krismalone
A believer,
The elder book says that even speaking in private to your loved ones about the lies & corruption of the GB can get you disfellowshipped for "causing divisions". Even the Proclaimers book p. 628 states that anyone speaking against the Organization (even though the facts prove it's true) will be DF'd.
The GB brags about fighting for religious freedom (over 50 cases in US Supreme Court) but the irony is that they DENY THAT SAME freedom to their members. The rank & file are OBLIGATED to believe and spread the ridiculous, irrational, flip flopping, false prophecies of the Organization.
See "Walsh Trial 1954" where the WT leaders testified in court (transcripts available online) where Fred Franz and Hayden Convington had to admit that the Witnesses are OBLIGATED to accept the interpretations of the GB even though that means accepting and spreading FALSE PROPHECIES. If anyone verbally expresses a different opinion than what the GB came up with for that week, then they will be disfellowshipped for "causing divisions".
It's funny how they like to talk about how people in the Catholic Church or other denomination became Witnesses and left their church because of hypocrisy. But the second that a Witness expresses his concern or dissappointment with the Organization and the GB, they are summoned to a Judicial Committee.
At the end of the day, the hard truth is that the Governing Body must be obeyed as ruler rather than God. Try telling your elders and circuit overseer that you will obey what the Bible says instead of what the Governing Body says and let us know how that goes for you.
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Living Vicariously Through the Sheep.
by donny inwhen i got baptized as a jehovah’s witness in the summer of 83, my honeymoon period lasted about two years before i began to wonder if the society and its adherents were all it claimed to be.
no of the things i encountered for the first few years was really faith shattering, they simply just made me pause and think.
after a short while, i would file those issues in the back of my brain files and move forward.. .
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krismalone
It is no wonder why the GB has explicitly stated through the confidential letters and Elder manual that NO ONE SHOULD read the confidential reports of judicial cases. They should be sealed and kept for at least 5 years unless it's a molestation case or any other case deemed worthy by the judicial Comittee to be kept indefinitely. Judicial cases must be sealed and kept under lock and key separate from the rest of the other files that do not involve sins.
This is what made Bill Bowen wake up about the child molestation problem in the Organization. He was organizing the Congregation files and he read a case where a current appointed elder was accused years ago of molesting a child. The Organization allowed this elder to be re-appointed even though he had confessed to molesting a child. This is what gave birth to the silentlambs website and the awaking of Bill Bowen.
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Shunning
by A Believer inyou guys do know that if you just leave and never go back you wont be disfellowshiped right?
i know people who have done exactly this.
you have to commit a sin and you or someone else has to tell a elder.
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krismalone
Imagine you and your family are kidnapped and being held hostage. The torture and humiliation is an everyday occurence. The kidnapper pulls you aside and tells you that only you can leave and as long that you don't tell anyone, speak out against his evil acts and don't attempt to try to get your family freed ...you will be left alone and allowed to live your life.
Will you be able to live a peaceful life?
Is this justice?
Are his terms really offering you freedom and happiness?
It's true that anyone could just stop going to the meetings and going door to door spreading the propaganda of the cult. However, they expect you to keep your mouth shut about all their evil deeds such as protecting molesters, false prophecies, lying about the donation arrangement, their abusive history etc etc.(Olin Moyle & Walter Salter letters).
Even if anyone fades without causing the WT any problems, through their publications and "2 minute hate" meetings (1984 Orwell expression), you are labelled as bad association and a weak Christian that is not to be trusted or to have any association with. So even peaceful faders are targeted by the hate of the cult leaders. Many faders can testify to the fact that although they are not formally disfellowshipped, they are still shunned or discriminated against for not drinking the kool aid on a regular basis.
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With up to 70% of young ones leaving what's the future of the jw's?
by karter inthey wlll always have new people coming in but the majority of the congro's are getting older particularly the inner city ones were it is expensive to live.
they are struggling to get men to be elders and m.s's and this can only get worse as very few young ones stay around.
karter..
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krismalone
Superstition & ignorance breeds religion.
Education empowers while religion ensnares.
Cults will thrive where there's a lack of education. In this information age, especially with the internet, JW's and other cults will start to have stagnant growth. Eventually a worldwide decline will occur as we already have seen with Japan for well over a decade.
With 80,000 JW deaths a yr (1% death rate) and another 1% that are df'd every year, it's the foreign speaking sector where the growth is in the US, Canada & Britain. 3rd world countries and JW children keep the global numbers from negative growth.
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Bible Contradictions regarding forgiveness & revenge...Not a trustworthy moral guide
by krismalone inrecent broadcast have gerrit losch talking about not holding a grudge and in septembers broadcast david splain talking about not demanding an apology after being wronged.
the subject of forgiveness and revenge is one of many examples of moral contradictions in the bible.
the book 1984 mentioned the terms double think and double speak.
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krismalone
Recent broadcast have Gerrit Losch talking about not holding a grudge and in Septembers broadcast David Splain talking about not demanding an apology after being wronged.
The subject of forgiveness and revenge is one of many examples of moral contradictions in the bible. The book 1984 mentioned the terms double think and double speak. That is to believe and verbally advocate two opposing views at the same time and resorting to them when convenient.The Watchtower resorts to telling it's members to be humble, forgiving, not standing up for your rights, suck it up when you are a victim and of course to leave it in Jehovah's hands. They do this to keep the rank & file submissive and quiet when elders and others in the Congregation and even the own Governing Body commit injustices and they don't want bad publicity or their authority undermined and challenged. Justice and truth are NOT important in JW world unless the Authority and image of the Governing Body is undermined.
However, when anyone starts a website and starts exposing the Governing Bodies hypocrisy and uses their own quotes and videos to show the world that they are brainwashed, power hungry cult members & inhumane does the Watchtower Society remain quiet, humble and just leave it in Jehovah's hands and forgiving?? HELL NO!!!! They get their legal team to go after you. They will even sue you to remove the videos and quotes. If you're a baptized member, they will disfellowship you and disgrace your name, calling you evil, apostate, demonized, mentally diseased and demand that every other JW on planet earth shun you and treat you as a dead non-existant scumbag. If an "apostate" changes his mind and returns, it will be MANY years if ever, before he can have a "privilege" again. So these people do hold grudges and have their revenge against anyone that dares to undermine them. They even save your judicial comittee file indefinitely. Yet they shamelessly speak publicly about being forgiving and not holding any grudges or take any action against those that have wronged us.The truth is that the Bible can be used to teach and justify whatever in hell you feel like justifying.
You want others to be forgiving towards you?
Just quote the words of Jesus about forgiveness.You want to justify holding a grudge and revenge?
Just quote from the Old Testament especially the accounts of King David killing thousands including his last words to his son Solomon where he tells him not to forget what a neighboring nation did to them and to kill them. How about David killing Goliat? Was david forgiving. humble and just left it in Jehovah's hands like the WT likes to tell it's members? How about Joseph? His brothers really screwed him over. Yet he DID NOT forgive them automatically. Only after they had apologized and truly changed did Joseph forgive them. If Joseph's brothers would not have repented and not apologized it is a fact that Joseph would have killed them all and justifiably so. Otherwise why did he test them? How about Samuel killing the King of Amalek
with his own hands? Were these actions demonstrating love, humility, peaceableness and meekness qualities that the New Testament speaks so much about for gods people?
So the Old Testament is full of examples of gods chosen spiritual men holding grudges, having hatred towards their neighbors and executing revenge. Not to mention having concubines (today we call them mistresses) and slaves (today we call that barbaric and violation of civil rights). In the Old Testament pre-marital sex WAS NOT CONDEMNED BY GOD! A single man can rape and kidnap any women he likes
and his only punishment was to pay a bride price and not allowed to divorce her!
You also have the New Testament advocating forgiveness, leaving vengeance in god's hands, loving your neighbor, meekeness, and being humble.
So which is it? Whatever you find convenient for your situation.
One of the main reasons why I am agnostic (leaning towards atheist) is the blatant, morally contradicting lessons found in the Old Testament against the New Testament. The Bible cannot be taken literally, nor as a moral guide. You need a lot of double think, self deceit and doublespeak to believe in the Bible. -
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The Watchtower try to give a modern twist to the scriptures.
by StephaneLaliberte ini was listening to the september broadcasting, where david splain talks about how jacob met with esau.
david splain: how did jacob react?
did he try to show how important and prominent he had become?
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krismalone
What David Splain said is an example of doublespeak. That is to believe and verbally advocate two opposing views at the same time and resorting to them when convenient.
The Watchtower resorts to telling it's members to be humble, forgiving, not standing up for your rights, suck it up when you are a victim and of course to leave it in Jehovah's hands. They do this to keep the rank & file submissive and quiet when elders and others in the Congregation and even the own Governing Body commit injustices and they don't want bad publicity or their authority undermined and challenged. Justice and truth are NOT important in JW world unless the Authority and image of the Governing Body is undermined.
However, when anyone starts a website and starts exposing the Governing Bodies hypocrisy and uses their own quotes and videos to show the world that they are brainwashed, power hungry cult members & inhumane does the Watchtower Society remain quiet, humble and just leave it in Jehovah's hands and forgiving?? HELL NO!!!! They get their legal team to go after you. They will even sue you to remove the videos and quotes. If you're a baptized member, they will disfellowship you and disgrace your name, calling you evil, apostate, demonized and demand
that every other JW on planet earth shun you and treat you as a dead non-existant scumbag. If an "apostate" changes his mind and returns, it will be MANY years if ever, before he can have a "privilege" again. So these people do hold grudges and have their revenge against anyone that dares to undermine them. They even save your judicial comittee file indefinitely. Yet they shamelessly speak publicly about being forgiving and not holding any grudges or take any action against those that have wronged us.The truth is that the Bible can be used to teach and justify whatever in hell you feel like justifying.
You want others to be forgiving towards you? Just quote the words of Jesus.
You want to justify holding a grudge and revenge? Just quote from the Old Testament especially the accounts of King David killing thousands and his last words to his son Solomon where he tells him not to forget what a neighboring nation did to them and to kill them. How about David killing Goliat? Was david forgiving. humble and just left it in Jehovah's hands like the WT likes to tell it's members? How about Joseph? His brothers really screwed him over. Yet he DID NOT forgive them automatically. Only after they had apologized and truly changed did Joseph forgive them. If Joseph's brothers would not have repented and not apologized it is a fact that Joseph would have killed them all and justifiably so. Otherwise why did he test them?
So YES it's proper to demand justice (Why would god or mother nature instill this in us?) when you are really screwed over and demand an apology even taking legal action. Of course you will not act like God's chosen men and literally kill people even cutting off their genitals (David did this to purchase Saul's wife....normal. kind people these bible characters are right? Worthy of imitation right?)You can even justify slavery, kidnapping single women (married are off the table except for King David) justify rape, killing you own children, killing people that believe differently from you, Just read the OLD TESTAMENT especially the book of Deuteronomy and you will see that god sanctioned these activities and more.
One of the main reasons why I am agnostic (leaning towards atheist) is the blatant, morally contradicting lessons found in the Old against the New Testament. The Bible cannot be taken literally, nor as a moral guide. You need a lot of doublethink, self deceit and doublespeak to believe in the Bible.