Posts by satinka

18

A werid experiance i had aged 13 with an Elder?

by highdose in

i had a sudden memory of somthing that i had totaly forgotten about the other day.

when i was 13 i can remember a elder in my cong cornering me in the hall and asking me in specfic detail where i got undressed?

not content with being fobbed off with "in my home" he wanted to know what room, did i ever use the bathroom?

Great reply to "Apostates only tear down, they never build up!"

by SweetBabyCheezits in

jw
friends

i'm sure many of you are familiar with that line.

it continues to be a card played frequently by the wt society.. is there any truth to it?

"apostates" do tend to tear down.

satinka

The young lady in the video stated it very well...she gets to choose a life that is right for her. Since leaving the JWs, she has her free will again. Bravo!

satinka

13

Will Religion Become Extinct?

by satinka in

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12811197.

religion may become extinct in nine nations, study saysby jason palmer, science and technology reporter, bbc news, dallas.

a study using census data from nine countries shows that religion there is set for extinction, say researchers.. the study found a steady rise in those claiming no religious affiliation.. the team's mathematical model attempts to account for the interplay between the number of religious respondents and the social motives behind being one.. the result, reported at the american physical society meeting in dallas, us, indicates that religion will all but die out altogether in those countries.. the team took census data stretching back as far as a century from countries in which the census queried religious affiliation: australia, austria, canada, the czech republic, finland, ireland, the netherlands, new zealand and switzerland.. nonlinear dynamics is invoked to explain a wide range of physical phenomena in which a number of factors play a part.. one of the team, daniel abrams of northwestern university, put forth a similar model in 2003 to put a numerical basis behind the decline of lesser-spoken world languages.. at its heart is the competition between speakers of different languages, and the "utility" of speaking one instead of another.. "the idea is pretty simple," said richard wiener of the research corporation for science advancement, and the university of arizona.. "it posits that social groups that have more members are going to be more attractive to join, and it posits that social groups have a social status or utility.. "for example in languages, there can be greater utility or status in speaking spanish instead of [the dying language] quechuan in peru, and similarly there's some kind of status or utility in being a member of a religion or not.".

satinka

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12811197

Religion may become extinct in nine nations, study says

By Jason Palmer, Science and technology reporter, BBC News, Dallas

A study using census data from nine countries shows that religion there is set for extinction, say researchers.

The study found a steady rise in those claiming no religious affiliation.

The team's mathematical model attempts to account for the interplay between the number of religious respondents and the social motives behind being one.

The result, reported at the American Physical Society meeting in Dallas, US, indicates that religion will all but die out altogether in those countries.

The team took census data stretching back as far as a century from countries in which the census queried religious affiliation: Australia, Austria, Canada, the Czech Republic, Finland, Ireland, the Netherlands, New Zealand and Switzerland.

Nonlinear dynamics is invoked to explain a wide range of physical phenomena in which a number of factors play a part.

One of the team, Daniel Abrams of Northwestern University, put forth a similar model in 2003 to put a numerical basis behind the decline of lesser-spoken world languages.

At its heart is the competition between speakers of different languages, and the "utility" of speaking one instead of another.

"The idea is pretty simple," said Richard Wiener of the Research Corporation for Science Advancement, and the University of Arizona.

"It posits that social groups that have more members are going to be more attractive to join, and it posits that social groups have a social status or utility.

"For example in languages, there can be greater utility or status in speaking Spanish instead of [the dying language] Quechuan in Peru, and similarly there's some kind of status or utility in being a member of a religion or not."

Some of the census data the team used date from the 19th century Dr Wiener continued: "In a large number of modern secular democracies, there's been a trend that folk are identifying themselves as non-affiliated with religion; in the Netherlands the number was 40%, and the highest we saw was in the Czech Republic, where the number was 60%."

The team then applied their nonlinear dynamics model, adjusting parameters for the relative social and utilitarian merits of membership of the "non-religious" category.

They found, in a study published online, that those parameters were similar across all the countries studied, suggesting that similar behaviour drives the mathematics in all of them.

And in all the countries, the indications were that religion was headed toward extinction.

However, Dr Wiener told the conference that the team was working to update the model with a "network structure" more representative of the one at work in the world.

"Obviously we don't really believe this is the network structure of a modern society, where each person is influenced equally by all the other people in society," he said.

However, he told BBC News that he thought it was "a suggestive result".

"It's interesting that a fairly simple model captures the data, and if those simple ideas are correct, it suggests where this might be going.

"Obviously much more complicated things are going on with any one individual, but maybe a lot of that averages out."

------------

On a happy note, the bible says a time will come when people would not adhere to religion. Rather, each person would be a law to themselves. (Romans 2:14) By that, I mean their conscience would be their guide; not some priest, pastor, elder, imam, bishop, etc. No more religion running the show, asking for money, lobbying for more power, and demanding more freedom to frighten and enslave. Sounds healthy to me. I embrace this idealist concept.

satinka

47

A lightning fast POLL: Two questions about CONVERSION

by Terry in

1. were you yourself converted from a religion other than jw to becoming a jw by door to door work?.

2.did you succeed in converting somebody in your own door to door work causing them to change religions to the point of baptism?.

quick answers, please.. .

satinka

1. Were you yourself converted from a religion OTHER than JW to becoming a JW by door to door work?

Answer: No, I was born in.

2. Did you succeed in converting somebody in your own door to door work causing them to change religions to the point of baptism?

Answer: No. Thankfully, I never brainwashed anyone by going door-to-door. Most unfortunately, I succeeded in brainwashing my two kids.

satinka

55

shunning is love - Feb 15 2011 Watchtower

by jj123jj123 in

18 if you face a similar situation, please remember that jehovah sympathizes with you.

by cutting off contact with the disfellowshipped or disassociated one, you are showing that you hate the attitudes and actions that led to that outcome.

however, you are also showing that you love the wrongdoer enough to do what is best for him or her.

satinka

Thanks, DanaBug!

satinka

61

a couple questions for everyone here

by deservingone26 in

im just curious about a couple things:.

1. most of you seem to be pretty satisfied that you left the the witness world but now that your gone what drives you now?

what makes you excited about life?

satinka

Counselling is a good idea. You will likely not survive leaving the JWs without much counselling. Many ex-members do not survive the shunning without support.

My experience is that when a person leaves the JWs, the religion insists its members shun ex-members. Shunning is a cruel form of punishment that is meant to demoralize, punish and force the ex-member to come back to something they no longer wish to be a part of. Sometimes ex-members go back just because they cannot bear to lose their family. The cruel practice of shunning is a hurtful and hateful form of punishment.

This forum is a place to heal from the shunning practice and find new friends. This forum is a life-saver. Many shunned members have committed suicide because of the alienation. Shunning is an inhumane practice completely unnatural for social humans. Yet, the way JW elders explain it to mean "love" will never help members in good standing to understand the other side of the coin---what it is really like for ex-members.

Jehovah's Witnesses don't want their members to know how cruel their shunning practice feels. They don't want us to recover from leaving the organization. The elders do not understand that we don't wish to be "forced" back to a philosophy that does not serve our interests. Publicly, the WT society denies that shunning is an on-going practice. This forum proves otherwise.

So, thanks for asking.

satinka

23

Elder's Manual Question

by satinka in

my youngest brother is the family jw patriarch, and an elder, maybe even the po in a small northern town.

in an email i asked him if he ever hears from my kids.

i happen to know he lives in the same small town as my son, who might very well be an elder, too...by now.

satinka

I would post the "elder threat" letter if I knew how.

satinka

23

Elder's Manual Question

by satinka in

my youngest brother is the family jw patriarch, and an elder, maybe even the po in a small northern town.

in an email i asked him if he ever hears from my kids.

i happen to know he lives in the same small town as my son, who might very well be an elder, too...by now.

satinka

So, anyway, I had quite an amazing day yesterday and I did blog about the issue of shunning disfellowshipped members...

Feel free to PM me if you want the link.

satinka

Kindness of a Stranger

I was half a block away from the corner when the bus rolled up to the stop. "Oh, darn," I thought dejectedly. "There goes my bus."

It was Monday morning and I was feeling sorry for myself. I looked up again and noticed the bus was still sitting at the corner. I picked up my pace, being reminded about a similar day last week when I had not yet reached the corner, yet the kindly bus driver waited for me. Smiling, he said, "I know who my regulars are." I thanked him. His kindness was appreciated. But, for me to think he would again be waiting this morning seemed preposterous. I was just too far away. Nevertheless, I picked up my pace. By the time I reached the corner I was running. Surprisingly, the bus remained stationary. I rounded the corner and caught the smiling eyes of the same bus driver. "I can't believe you waited for me, again! You are so kind!" I was breathless, as I gratefully climbed aboard.

"I know you are one of my regulars," he responded gently, and again I thanked him.

I found a seat and unexpectedly became filled with emotion. Tears flooded my eyes and I wondered why it is so easy for some people—strangers—to be naturally kind, yet relatives could express cruelty with equal vengeance. My mind flashed back to the past weekend. I had asked my brother a simple question, "Do you ever hear from my kids?"

He did not respond. My brother and my two grown children are Jehovah's Witnesses. They are obliged by a "disfellowship order"[1] to shun me because I chose to leave the family religion. My own children have cut off all association from me. They could only express kindness conditionally—if I "repented of my gross sins." Until such time I must be punished by their cruel practice of shunning.

One might reason, "Satinka, you must have committed some vile deed for them to treat you so badly."

I confess, I sought a divorce from my philandering husband. I confess, I began taking dance lessons. I confess, I made many new friends who the religion labelled "worldly" because they were not Jehovah's Witnesses. I confess, I had an affair with my exciting new dance partner. I confess, I loved every minute of my new life.

Subsequently, I was judged by a tribunal of three elders. My faith had been found to be defective and I was "disfellowshipped" from the congregation. In other words, I was "kicked out." But, being "kicked out" seemed like a fine idea because I did not want to be a part of the family religion any longer. Unfortunately, the religion does not leave the matter at being "kicked out." The punishment must be severe and on-going, to their way of thinking.

Since leaving, I have deliberately purged the beliefs with which I had been raised. It was my only chance to be healthy, I felt. Members of the religion are taught that "upon leaving, you will be taken over by the devil." Or, "there is no place for you to hide from the wrath of Jehovah." Surely, if I retained any of those beliefs, I would self-destruct.

Religions keep crying for more freedom. Subsequently, they would exercise their freedom license to do what?

to practice bigotry and hatred in the name of God?
to use children as weapons against ex-members in a type of emotional blackmail?
to pressure ex-members to conform to a bygone standard of "righteousness"?
to judge the faith of another human being and condemn it?

Many ex-members who find themselves on the "wrong" side of the elder tribunals do not survive their harsh discipline; they commit suicide. Likely, they recalled the teachings of the Old Testament where the Israelite elders stoned "sinners" to death. The Jehovah's Witness members were taught this story in application to the "disfellowship order" as a lesson in fear. Such "sinners deserved to die" the elders explained, in order to not contaminate the rest of the clan. The religion teaches its members to hate. "A Christian must hate the person with whom the badness is inseparably linked."—Watchtower 1961 Jul. 15, p. 420.[2]

Recently, the Watchtower Society has made a public announcement about familial shunning, "Our organization does not interfere with family matters." Yes, that is the official statement to the press. After all, they would like to present themselves as a "moderate" Christian religion. Meanwhile, behind the scenes a completely different story emerges. I, for one, am feeling the effects of their strict enforcement of the shunning rule. Members who leave are demonized, "Satan's influence…will be to cause the other…members of the family to…join…his course…To do this would be disastrous, and so the faithful family member must recognize and conform to the disfellowship order."—Watchtower 1952 Nov. 15, p. 703. My children have been taught to fear me. Apparently, I have been taken over by the devil and am no longer the loving mom they used to know.

When a person leaves the Jehovah's Witness faith, the other assumption of the elder tribunal is that the person "[does] not love Christ."—Watchtower 1952 Mar. 1, pp. 131, 134. To that I would respond, "Love for a religious theology is completely separate from love for Christ. Christ's philosophy was one based in love; the Jehovah's Witnesses are steeped in fear. Love and fear are opposites."

What happens to a member in good standing if they do not conform to a "disfellowship order" or "shunning order" against a "defective" member? Their very own theological magazine states, "If a [member]…ignores the prohibition on associating with the disfellowshipped one, that [member] is rebelling against the congregation of Jehovah,…he also should be disfellowshipped."—Watchtower 1955 Oct. 1, p. 607. Yes, members are threatened with expulsion if they continue to associate with a disfellowshipped or ex member. I am in possession of such an elder threat; a letter.

Why did the kindly bus driver show up in my life? I believe the Universe brings these stark lessons in contrast to illustrate the religious bigotry and abuse that I have been subjected to since leaving the Jehovah's Witness religion. It seems to me the tribunal of elders do not want me ever to forget that I have "left Jehovah." Yes, it is true, I have left a god who teaches fear, bigotry, and hatred. The kindly bus driver has brought me a spiritual lesson to show me that there are many kind people in the "world" that the Jehovah's Witnesses believe will be soon destroyed at Armageddon.

I thank the kindly bus driver for reminding me to be firm in my resolve to be true to my Self, even if it means never seeing my children again. Being true to me is the only way to heal from religious bigotry. Integrity to my principles enables the Universe to fill my life with caring and loving people for whom I am truly grateful.

[1] As defined by the Watchtower Society in their official theological magazine, The Watchtower.

[2] The large page numbers (402) are a result of the 24 annual journals being bound into one volume upon year-end. The practice of page continuation between journals has been discontinued in recent years.

--------------------

23

Elder's Manual Question

by satinka in

my youngest brother is the family jw patriarch, and an elder, maybe even the po in a small northern town.

in an email i asked him if he ever hears from my kids.

i happen to know he lives in the same small town as my son, who might very well be an elder, too...by now.

satinka

Mr Falcon writes:

assume that disfellowshipping really is a beneficial arrangement (just bear with me...). Even if that were true, by what authority does some guy in a cheap suit with little or no education have to render such a serious judgment? It's nuts. Hell, what's to stop me from assuming such authority? What prevents me from walking around DFing people?

Presumptous, isn't it? What egos!

satinka

8

Pu-leeease...WHOSE government?

by satinka in

according to this article:.

harpers government???

pu-leeease...harper is not even a ruling majority!.

satinka

Who likened Harper to Satan????

satinka