Posts by John

35

How long did people like Methuselah really live?

by dubstepped in

i was working today and my brain was working in circles like it often does and i started wondering about what i was always told about people like methuselah in bible times, and their incredibly claims of longevity.

i've tried researching things but have a hard time getting through all of the bible thumpers to some real evidence, and figured that some here may be more informed or have done the research previously.

so, did people really live longer way back when?

John_Mann

It's called poetic license.

36

An interesting reasoning for the existence of God (from JW public talk)

by anointed1 in

i was on an official tour last week to another part of my country.

on my way to the hotel, i noticed sign-board of jw kingdom hall.

i thought i would attend sunday meeting as i knew no one would recognize me.. seeing “a new-comer” in the audience, public speaker adapted his material making it especially appealing to me.

John_Mann

That should be a subtle clue as to the evolutionary development of consciousness....

Can you trace our sense of own mortality in evolutionary terms?

Do you know any animal that wonders about its own natural death?

And what about our sense of justice? There's no justice in the jungle so why and how did we developed something not found in nature?

BTW the OP analogy sucks.

18

The "anointed generation" is wrong, not because it is dragging on too long, but because it is too short.

by prologos in

jesus taught a surviving generation, a group inhering everlasting life, an escape route to avoid a global disaster worse than the flood, a generation that "will not pass away--" an infinite generation.

wt teaches a generation that dies, ends, passes away, at the first sign of real trouble, the great tribulation.. what do you believe about this wt assertion?

(apart from that there is no talking snake, it is all irrelevant).

John_Mann

Jews believed God dwelled in the temple. And the temple was the center of the universe in a sense. Jesus was talking about the destruction of the temple. The destruction was the end of the world to Jewish people. They mourn in the temple even today.

JWs ignore any cultural context of the New Testament.

At best any symbolic meaning Jesus was talking about his own execution.

This is well settled in mainstream Christianity. Nothing about types and antitypes...

Any attack on Christianity having the strawman JW theology as base is pure nonsense.

54

Survey: Are you Agnostic or Atheist or Christian?

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

i am agnostic.

i will count how many agnostics, atheists and christians that are reading this forum regularly.

please answer my question.

John_Mann

Catholic Christian

I don't believe in the JW concept of God. I'm an atheist regarding Jehovah.

44

The Jewish perspective of the OT according to poster David_Jay

by deegee in

i note your comments in the following threads regarding the jewish perspective on certain old testament (ot) events:.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5700922233585664/when-you-stop-think-about-why-would-gods-chosen-people-old-testament-need-army?page=1&size=10 ,.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6065451475927040/why-didnt-god-also-reveal-himself-canaanites-just-he-did-moses-burning-bush.

John_Mann

Thank you! I'll take a look.

44

The Jewish perspective of the OT according to poster David_Jay

by deegee in

i note your comments in the following threads regarding the jewish perspective on certain old testament (ot) events:.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5700922233585664/when-you-stop-think-about-why-would-gods-chosen-people-old-testament-need-army?page=1&size=10 ,.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6065451475927040/why-didnt-god-also-reveal-himself-canaanites-just-he-did-moses-burning-bush.

John_Mann

Spiritual soul can be viewed as being responsible for giving Qualia to humans. Even hard atheists( like Dennett who advocates consciousness does not exists) say that they recognise something more than just materialistic processes in their minds. Dennett speaks about this characteristic as the Zombic Hunch.

By definition is impossible to humans create the spiritual soul (neshamah/psyche) that gives humans the capability to be conscious.

Catholicism has a very simple explanation of soul and defines only 3 (vegetative, animal and spiritual) and one "appendix" of the spiritual soul (psyche) called pneuma (translated as "spirit of man" and can be viewed as the "center of intentions" of psyche).

Spirit in Catholicism have two meanings: one is the concept of pneuma (spirit of man) and the other is regarding the substance which souls are made contrasting to material substance (like the vegetative and animal souls. Both mortal).

Catholicism says the two mortal souls came to existence by natural means (evolution) and in Homo Sapiens the animal soul reached a very high functional level able to receive the spiritual soul (psyche). Adam and Eve were the first couple to receive this spiritual soul (in a very recent point in history). God creates every single psyche in Adam's offspring. Being a direct creation of God every psyche is perfect and immortal and can't be annihilated. Psyche has no parts so it cannot be decomposed, therefore is immortal. Pneuma is just a salience in psyche like a handle of a mug and functions like an "antenna". Pneuma is responsible for the spiritual communication between other beings.

Psyche cannot be annihilated but can fall to perdition and it is like a living death (second death). The eternal destiny of soul (soteriology) is the main concern to Catholicism.

Tell me more about the concepts of soul in Judaism. I know Jews defines 5 souls in humans. David, do you think is possible to humans emulate or even create in artificial intelligence something like the naturalistic soul (nephesh habehamit or the human anima)?

44

The Jewish perspective of the OT according to poster David_Jay

by deegee in

i note your comments in the following threads regarding the jewish perspective on certain old testament (ot) events:.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5700922233585664/when-you-stop-think-about-why-would-gods-chosen-people-old-testament-need-army?page=1&size=10 ,.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6065451475927040/why-didnt-god-also-reveal-himself-canaanites-just-he-did-moses-burning-bush.

John_Mann

I thought the role of Ezra (not necessarily during the exile) was unanimous among Jews. I'm Catholic and the Jewish tradition we inherited says Ezra played a major role in the making of what we call OT.

The Catholic approach to OT is primarily historical. We are interested in the development of the strong concept of monotheism built by the Jews. No other people built such massive concept of monotheism.

We understand the OT is written in an exaggerated way. That's the Jewish way of teaching. Jesus used it.

The account of creation (of human souls) is very sophisticated too. Sadly pentecostal fundamentalism hijacked it.

And of course the concept of a Messiah.

It's good to have a well educated person in this forum who knows the ancient (and original) way to cope with Holy Scriptures.

You could talk about the Jewish view of the (second) destruction of the Temple and how it was seen as the end of the world itself. Non Catholic Christians have a hard time to understand the importance of the Temple to Jews.

44

The Jewish perspective of the OT according to poster David_Jay

by deegee in

i note your comments in the following threads regarding the jewish perspective on certain old testament (ot) events:.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5700922233585664/when-you-stop-think-about-why-would-gods-chosen-people-old-testament-need-army?page=1&size=10 ,.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6065451475927040/why-didnt-god-also-reveal-himself-canaanites-just-he-did-moses-burning-bush.

John_Mann

(it is generally held Moses was seeing not a “fire” at the burning bush but the Shekinah)

Interesting. And we can thought the bush being the tree of life.

Very good thread!

44

The Jewish perspective of the OT according to poster David_Jay

by deegee in

i note your comments in the following threads regarding the jewish perspective on certain old testament (ot) events:.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5700922233585664/when-you-stop-think-about-why-would-gods-chosen-people-old-testament-need-army?page=1&size=10 ,.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6065451475927040/why-didnt-god-also-reveal-himself-canaanites-just-he-did-moses-burning-bush.

John_Mann

People cannot accept that Judaism and Catholicism did not came from books.

It's much more convenient to beat the Sola Scriptura strawman.

What attracts me in Judaism is not the concepts of God in it but the concepts of soul. Judaism went far more deep than Catholicism in concepts of soul. Only in Aquinas the subject was expanded.

What you think about the role of Ezra in the making of the OT while in Babylon?

583

What is the purpose of life?

by slimboyfat in

while reading the magazines the other day it occurred to me that jws never really had a very good answer to that question.

because it was aimed at young people and it said something along the lines, "if you believe in god you have a purpose, but if you don't believe in god your life has no purpose or meaning".

i think that is a faulty analysis of the situation.

John_Mann

Não When I was a little boy (maybe 5 years old) I was learning how to count from zero to ten and I was having a hard time to count straight. I knew the name of the numbers but my problem was to figure out the right sequence.

Then I asked a little help to my father and he counted in a slowly way to show me how to do it. In a while I figured it out and then I asked to him until what number he could count. He calmly said he could count to infinity. And I was in awe!

I was not in awe about learning what infinity is. In fact I could not remember how I understood the concept of infinity. I don't even remember if I had to learn it at all! This is my oldest memory about infinity and I already knew it. I couldn't count to ten but I already understood the concept of infinity.

And my concept of infinity never needed to be improved. Of course I learned about mathematical applications to it but the concept itself is still the same in my mind just it was when I was a little boy.

In a biological sense I can trace the evolution of my eyes and knees to a long chain of animals. We know almost anything about our animal bodies and we can trace it down to other animals.

But how and where came from this property to know about infinity?

No other animal can do such thing.

And if we search how we learned it we only find that it simply appeared in our minds.

And this is not some trivial knowledge like swimming to the surface or hold the breath under water.

This is one of the most complex and sophisticated concepts of the human mind.

And it's not the only exotic property in our minds.

What about justice? Liberty? Artistic beauty? The awareness of our deaths? The search for meaning? Introspection? Imagination? Intricated concepts of past and future?

To what animals can we trace such things?

Until now we can't even trace these properties to our neurons! No scanner can say if I'm thinking about infinity or the meaning of life.

John_Mann

Posts by John_Mann