Posts by Quendi

A Witness friend is attending the district convention in Long Beach, California this weekend and is all a-quiver about the talk on the image featured in Daniel Chapter 2 and its "ten toes". He is under the impression that something new and exciting will be revealed. I didn't have the heart to tell him that he would learn nothing of the sort. I did tell him that I already had seen the convention program online (right here at JWN) and was aware of the talk and its contents. I didn't get excited or indicate that something wonderful would be shared. I hope that my lack of enthusiasm will clue him in so that he won't get his hopes up.

What I find amazing is how the organization has managed to string its followers along all these years. You'd think this was the 1970s all over again with everyone on the edge of their seats waiting for the impending end of the world as we did back then. But with charlatans like Gerrit Losch giving their spiel at every opportunity, misleading the rank-and-file with false hopes, fake knowledge, and surreal fantasies, I suppose I should be surprised if Witnesses didn't go along. After all, it wasn't too long ago when I was among those marching in lock-step with the organization, thinking that all my dreams would come true in "just a little while longer".

Still, I have to wonder just how much longer the WTS can keep up this charade. The years are running away, the membership is tiring out, and as much as the Society has tried to suppress it, the truth about its history, its false teachings, and its oppressive and repressive practices are becoming more widely known. Maybe "the end" is indeed near, but I hope that end will be its own.

Quendi

75

Unrest in the Governing Body

by JWFreak in

jw
friends

one of the many questions that i am asked is what are the current gb members like, who are the hardliners and who are more moderate.. because of my previous job, at a european bethel, i had dealings with most of them with the exception of sam herd.. these are my observations of my conversations with them and how others who had dealings with them.. other ex bethelites may have contrary views to mine, but i would be surprised.. i had spent a lot of time with splane, lett and morris.

hardliners.

david splane, without doubt the one who commands the most respect and attention.

Quendi

Forgive me for joining the conversation so late in the day, but I only now found the link to this thread. Thank you, JWF, for creating this thread and thanks to the rest of you for your remarks.

I think that despite the existence of the Internet which has opened a window on the Governing Body's personalities and operations, there is still much that is unknown about these men. I have never met any of them, and have no desire to, especiallhy Gerrit Loesch, for whom I have no respect at all. His talk at a European district convention a few years ago wherein he condemned those seeking higher education as being mentally ill permanently turned me against him. It is frightening to see a man like that in a position of power anywhere, let alone in control of a religion that itself is unsound.

Governing Body 2.0 (love that moniker!) reminds me a great deal of the leadership that existed in the old Soviet Union. Their operations were carried out in a secretive manner. They were accountable to no one. They fostered a personality cult that shielded them from the consequences of their decisions and actions. In this respect, they are only following the model created by Governing Body 1.0 which operated in much the same manner.

Some have said that this new group doesn't have men of the caliber of Fred Franz among them to do deep Bible study. I think it has to be remembered that Fred Franz was never recognized as a real Bible scholar. Neither was he respected as a true student of Biblical hermeneutics and exegesis. Looking back over the wild speculations, inconsistent teachings, and incomplete explanations he proffered in his books shows that he had only a surface knowledge of biblical languages and history. He reveled in his role as oracle and prophet, a role created for him by J.F. Rutherford and enhanced by N.H. Knorr during his long tenure at Bethel.

The men who aided the WTS in its Bible translation work and doctrinal development were neither Governing Body members nor anointed (with the exception of Ray Franz) and this raises a question that I'm sure WTS leaders don't want to answer. If the information being created isn't from anointed Witnesses, how can the Governing Body make the claim that it speaks for the 'faithful slave' class since that class isn't producing the required "spiritual food"? It's clear to me they don't want rank-and-file Witnesses to learn about how the organization truly functions because many would see that the entire setup is a fraud and a cheat and would leave. But I also think that many Witnesses like it that way. Passing the buck to the Governing Body relieves them of the responsibility to seek the truth for themselves.

Quendi

11

Andrew took much pride in his job but left it.Why?

by therevealer in

the watchtower ?

september 15, 2011 13. you may recall that in the past, a number of people were involved in growing tobacco or.

selling tobacco products, training others in warfare, or producing and selling weapons.

Quendi

I love the nonsense about being in a "nonneutral organization". This coming from an organization that for ten years was an NGO supporter of the United Nations and only severed its ties when the relationship was exposed! These people are unbelievable. And, of course, when facing economic hard times or a financial crisis what solution does the WTS advocate? Why, going into the full-time service, of course! But they will never relate an experience where someone did this and matters did not work out well. To think I used to swallow this stuff hook, line, and sinker without even thinking of questioning its legitimacy or reality. I'm glad I got out.

Quendi

55

Saturday Morning Musings ...

by snowbird in

one hot, hot thursday, in july of 1987, i worked a half day, drove from wilcox county to mobile county to pick up a sister, then hit i-10 for new orleans to attend the convention which began the next day.. the evening traffic was unbelievable; when i finally arrived and pulled into our hotel parking lot, i was shaking like a leaf in the wind.

we checked in, and after showering, i fell into bed and slept like a drunk person.. the next morning, friday, was a complete blur as we made our way to the superdome.

i don't remember anything that was discussed that day, just the searing heat as we returned to the hotel.. after a long shower, i again fell into a deep slumber.

Quendi

I remember one year I was asked to be part of the janitorial detail during a district convention in Denver. I turned down the assignment, telling the elder in charge that I worked as a janitor all year long and wasn't about to do it at a district convention. Little did I realize that refusal marked me as someone "uncooperative" and figured prominently in my never being appointed as a ministerial servant (although I was allowed to pioneer). The brothers said I had the reputation for having an "attitude", and so they were reluctant to give me any further privileges.

One year I stopped by the information desk and helped some. The brothers quickly found out that I could do the job of dispensing information about both convention and non-convention topics better than the ones actually assigned to the job. So for a couple of years I worked there, but was eventually relieved of the duties because I had not been officially "assigned". After that, I never worked at a district convention again.

I appreciated Man in Black's experience about working hard, not hearing all of the program, and then being told he should attend again (despite the expense as well as the wear and tear this would cause) just so he could get all the "spiritual food". The people I felt most sorry for were families with young children. I can't even begin to imagine the difficulties and problems they had to overcome first to attend and then to keep up with their children. For some families, I learned that the district convention was the only time off they took together for the entire year. That had to be a real downer: sitting in a place not designed to hold people for an entire day with children who didn't understand or want to be there and hardly ever hear any real encouragement. I'm glad I don't go anymore.

Quendi

62

Br. Loesch - great tribulation, king of the north, generation overlap, new scrolls and more...

by Bonnie_Clyde in

just got this email...... .

subject: zone report germany date: 5/17/11 2:02:57 am.

we thought we would share one of our interesting experiences with you.

Quendi

To my mind, Garrett Loesch is the most reprehensible member of the current Governing Body. I have a YouTube link in which he compares those seeking a college education to people who are mentally ill or unbalanced. There is nothing he can say that I would take seriously or consider to be sound counsel.

As for the predictions about the great tribulation and the king of the north, they are nothing more than unfounded speculation and wishful thinking. But they probably will be turned into Watchtower studies for the rank-and-file in the coming months. Seeing how none of the Society's predictions concerning the future has come true, you'd think its leaders would stop making them. But no, the organization continues to chase rainbows, looking for the pot of gold it will never find. It speculates while it tells its followers not to do so. But most egregious of all, it points its followers to The Watchtower magazine instead of the Bible as the ultimate authority. However, that has been its modus operandi going back to its founding so there's no reason to believe it will change its ways now.

Quendi

62

Br. Loesch - great tribulation, king of the north, generation overlap, new scrolls and more...

by Bonnie_Clyde in

just got this email...... .

subject: zone report germany date: 5/17/11 2:02:57 am.

we thought we would share one of our interesting experiences with you.

Quendi

To my mind, Garrett Loesch is the most reprehensible member of the current Governing Body. I have a YouTube link in which he compares those seeking a college education to people who are mentally ill or unbalanced. There is nothing he can say that I would take seriously or consider to be sound counsel.

As for the predictions about the great tribulation and the king of the north, they are nothing more than unfounded speculation and wishful thinking. But they probably will be turned into Watchtower studies for the rank-and-file in the coming months. Seeing how none of the Society's predictions concerning the future has come true, you'd think its leaders would stop making them. But no, the organization continues to chase rainbows, looking for the pot of gold it will never find. It speculates while it tells its followers not to do so. But most egregious of all, it points its followers to The Watchtower magazine instead of the Bible as the ultimate authority. However, that has been its modus operandi going back to its founding so there's no reason to believe it will change its ways now.

Quendi

55

Saturday Morning Musings ...

by snowbird in

one hot, hot thursday, in july of 1987, i worked a half day, drove from wilcox county to mobile county to pick up a sister, then hit i-10 for new orleans to attend the convention which began the next day.. the evening traffic was unbelievable; when i finally arrived and pulled into our hotel parking lot, i was shaking like a leaf in the wind.

we checked in, and after showering, i fell into bed and slept like a drunk person.. the next morning, friday, was a complete blur as we made our way to the superdome.

i don't remember anything that was discussed that day, just the searing heat as we returned to the hotel.. after a long shower, i again fell into a deep slumber.

Quendi

Hello Snowbird,

My convention experiences were different from what many have related here. My first district convention was in the memorable year 1975 at Huntsville, Alabama. I was not yet baptized, but I remember the tremendous excitement I had. In part this was due to attending my very first DC, and there was also the 1975 buzz which by then had reached a crescendo. The drive from Tuscaloosa to Huntsville was a pleasant one. We didn't stay in a hotel but a private home instead and had a wonderful time associating with the householder who was not a Witness but boarded us for a modest fee.

Thereafter I attended conventions in Tuscaloosa and never had to drive a long way even when I moved back to Birmingham. I still had plenty of friends in Tuscaloosa itself so I stayed with them during the conventions. The lone exception was the international convention in New Orleans in 1978. Like you, I remember the stifling heat and humidity more than anything else and how we were told that our business in the city was the convention only. That meant no sight-seeing, no shopping, no really enjoying the city that much. Our hotel was in the French Quarter, though, and so we did get a little taste of what New Orleans had to offer. The restaurants served marvelous food and drinks and I only wished we had taken the time to really enjoy ourselves.

From 1982 to 2005 all the DCs I attended were in Denver, Colorado and since I lived in Boulder, only 25 miles away, traveling to district conventions posed no real hardship. The chief concern we local Witnesses had was for the convention to be held as early as possible. Colorado summers are intense, but brief, and most of us wanted to enjoy camping, fishing, hiking, visiting the national parks, and other outdoor activities during the summer months. Getting the convention out of the way early would allow us to enjoy the rest of the summer without any "interruption".

But as the years went by I found myself enjoying the conventions less and less. Being single gave me an advantage in that I didn't have a family to take and the resultant logistical problems, but I still found the convention programs boring, especially the parts that dealt with family issues. I fell asleep frequently, refused to take notes, and could only get interested in talks that featured the introduction of some new publication. I also noticed that the control the organization sought to impose was getting tighter and that emphasis was being placed on obeying the 'faithful slave' on all points despite what we personally might think.

Now six years have passed since my last district convention and I have no wish to ever attend one again. A Witness friend has been sending me the releases since 2006, but this year I have told him not to bother. There is nothing in the Society's publications that interests me anymore, and I take that lack of interest as a sign that I have finally broken free of its influence.

GLORY, GLOR Y, HALLELUJAH!!

Quendi

54

Gentile Times Reconsidered - Download the Book

by VM44 in

commentary press has made the book "the gentile times reconsidered" available to download.. visit this page for the download location.. [link deleted by request of poster].

Quendi

I didn't know about the ownership issues with Gentile Times before I downloaded it. Maybe I should have looked before I leaped, but I am glad to have it. I have also transferred it onto my NOOK e-Reader so I can take it with me wherever I go. If the book is sold out, it may well be that the owners of the copyright have decided to freely distribute it via the web, or at least I hope that is the case.

I also hope that if there are no problems or challenges to this free distribution, word will spread among rank-and-file Witnesses that there is a deep, scholarly study of the cornerstone doctrine of their religion available to anyone who owns a computer or notebook, and that they should definitely take steps to examine it. I wonder if the Governing Body is aware of this latest development with respect to Carl Olof Jonson's book. If they are, will they continue their campaign of silence and hope that will keep any Witnesses from learning about the book? Or will the Society feel compelled to publicly denounce both the book and its author in some future study issue of The Watchtower? It will be interesting to see what the future will bring.

Quendi

7

Have The Summer Conventions Started Yet?

by jookbeard in

excuse if there is aatot , but wondering if any feed back/snippets and releases have been obtained by anyone, also of interest is the symposium on the 2nd day in particular the warnings of apostasy talk?.

Quendi

Carla:

The reason for the sometimes poor timing of conventions, assemblies, and such has to do with local circumstances many times. While the Society makes arrangements for the time and place of district conventions, it is up to local Witnesses to do this for circuit assemblies and special assembly days. The local events are more difficult to schedule because of the heavy demand for facilities and their limited availability.

I remember an elder explaining this to me when I criticized the timing of a circuit assembly being held only three weeks before a district convention. The circuit assembly was being held in western Colorado whereas the district convention was in Denver. That placed a hardship on Witnesses who had to attend both at considerable expense. This elder explained that the reason for the circuit assembly being held so close to the district convention dates was that was the only time the facility was available to Witnesses. The chosen city was one that was centrally located to make it easier for Witnesses to attend. Sometimes there is method to the madness behind WTS actions.

The solution to scheduling problems is for Witnesses to have their own assembly halls. Then the arranging of conventions, et cetera, can be done in a more evenly spread way, thus reducing economic stress on attending Witnesses as well as avoiding "burnout" from too much indoctrination too frequently.

The last time I attended a district convention was in 2005. I have been amazed at how easily I was able to cut the district convention, circuit assembly, and special assembly day out of my life. My summers are wide open now, and I have enjoyed them more than I ever have before. It is also nice not to have to slog through snowstorms and the like just to get to a circuit assembly when I would rather have spent that weekend in the comfort of my own home. I used to go to district conventions hoping we would get some real information about when we could expect the end of the world. When those hopes weren't realized, my reason for going was the association since I got to see Witnesses who lived some distance away. Now I'm glad that my time is my own once more.

Quendi