I couldn't agree with you more, WontLeave, particularly with your last two sentences. That is the stance I have taken, and I hope my friends still inside the organization will realize that one day.
Quendi
Posts by Quendi
-
42Would you pose as an "interested one" and "study" to help free my family?
by Essan in...in return for someone else doing the same with your friends or family?.
this is a hypothetical question to see how many would be interested in something like this and if it could work.
(i created another thread about this but the title and op wasn't clear enough.
-
-
-
17
So where are you now?
by fade_away inare any of you on here not living the dreams you had as a kid because of the "no higher education" rule?.
i was a born in jw and remained one until the age of 25. by my late teens i knew what i wanted to do with my life.
i'm about to write a lengthy history explaining why i'm not currently in the carreer i wanted, so you can skip this boring story and just comment if you want to.. i was raised to be a loyal jw and since birth already had many goals chosen for me.
-
-
Quendi
I went back to college in my forties after dropping out in my twenties. No, my degree did not lead to a fantastic job with gobs of money. I got a BA in geography and mathematics, but I never regretted returning to school and studying those things I was most passionate about. To me, that is what an education should be about and I pity those who have been told that higher education is only a tool Satan uses to turn people away from God.
They say a rolling stone gathers no moss. I know how true that is. All you have to do is look at Witnesses who have let the organization set life goals for them. They have stagnated. Their God-given talents and abilities are being wasted. They have shut the door on many opportunities and worthwhile life experiences. And many have been forced to take jobs that are anything but satisfying. The WTS tells people that the only worthwhile work is the fulltime service--their definition of fulltime service at that. That is a lie.
Jesus came to save our souls, not to lose our minds. So don't throw your mind away simply because an isolated, out-of-touch coterie of old men in Brooklyn want to stifle your abilities. I'm glad you are finally pursuing your dreams. And as others have said, education is a lifelong journey. You are never too old to learn, never too old to use the talents you know you have and to find others that are waiting for the chance to be exploited to your benefit and that of many others. I wish you every success in your life. You deserve it.
Quendi
-
30
"Banned in Brooklyn"
by Quendi ini hope this thread generates some discussion as well as some amusement.
i want to talk about "banned books".
back in the middle ages, the roman catholic church issued its index librorum prohibitorum, the list of prohibited books.
-
-
Quendi
The Index first appeared in the Middle Ages, Nicholas. That was my point. Book banning by the Catholic Church is nothing new.
Quendi
-
17
So where are you now?
by fade_away inare any of you on here not living the dreams you had as a kid because of the "no higher education" rule?.
i was a born in jw and remained one until the age of 25. by my late teens i knew what i wanted to do with my life.
i'm about to write a lengthy history explaining why i'm not currently in the carreer i wanted, so you can skip this boring story and just comment if you want to.. i was raised to be a loyal jw and since birth already had many goals chosen for me.
-
-
Quendi
bookmark
-
30
"Banned in Brooklyn"
by Quendi ini hope this thread generates some discussion as well as some amusement.
i want to talk about "banned books".
back in the middle ages, the roman catholic church issued its index librorum prohibitorum, the list of prohibited books.
-
-
Quendi
I am really enjoying reading all the comments on this thread. Thanks again to everyone.
To RayPublisher and Captain Schmideo I want to say, "Elen sila lumenn omentielvo!" And, Captain, thanks for picking up the significance of my handle. That shows you also are a Tolkien devotee. As for you, compound complex, your nom de plume definitely marks you as a man of belles lettres as well as a lover of language! I am delighted to meet you as well.
The history of religion shows that Jehovah's Witnesses are not the first to get on the slippery slope of intolerance. They won't be the last, either. I very much doubt that any of the elders we've talked about here or even the Governing Body itself has read even one of the books we have discussed. Like the seventeenth century Puritans, and the cold-blooded prosecutors who were part of the Inquisition, they have closed minds and darkened hearts. It's not simply their ignorance, deliberate and willful as it is, that I find so disgusting. It is also the fact that they would impose that ignorance on others. But I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. After all, this is an organization that is at ceaseless war with higher education and actively discourages its followers from seeking it. Their opposition is staunch and unwavering until there is a need for that kind of expertise. We saw that when the Patterson Education Center was being built and the Society begged for college-educated experts to lend their talents and time to the project. Once it was completed, however, the WTS quickly resumed its anti-education stance.
But having seen the face of intolerance, it behooves us not to don it ourselves. We must continue to share the fruits of our education with others. I have left the organization now with no intention of returning. I left many dear friends behind. But I still hope that I may yet have a reconciliation with some if they are willing to open their minds and hearts. The only way that will happen is if they are willing to listen to other points of view. Reading "banned books" would be a good start.
When I was reading aloud to my Witness friends and roommates, it was fascinating to see the effect exposing them to real literature had. It wasn't just the stories they heard which enchanted them. They would also comment on how the language itself affected them. They would marvel at some turn of phrase, a verse of poetry, the presentation of an idea in a way that would really stimulate their thinking, or how they would feel drawn to the author and wish they could meet him or her. Maybe I planted some seeds with my readings that may yet sprout and bear flower and fruit. At least I hope so. And I want to encourage all of you to read aloud to others if you ever get the chance. You will reap substantial rewards.
Quendi
-
30
"Banned in Brooklyn"
by Quendi ini hope this thread generates some discussion as well as some amusement.
i want to talk about "banned books".
back in the middle ages, the roman catholic church issued its index librorum prohibitorum, the list of prohibited books.
-
-
Quendi
Thanks, everyone, for all your comments! I'm not surprised that LOTR and The Wonderful Wizard of Oz would be on the WTS hit list. I'm equally certain that the other titles mentioned on this thread would also be condemned. I've had Witness parents tell me that they would not allow their children to read Grimm's or Andersen's fairy tales, either.
For quite a few years I had Witness roommates. I loved reading aloud so I would select different books to read to them. I will never forget the eager looks on their faces as they listened to Watership Down, Asimov's Foundation Trilogy, C.S. Lewis' Out of the Silent Planet, The Lord of the Rings, and other wonderful stories. It was as if they were starving for anything that would feed their imaginations. Many had never read or even heard of the books I introduced them to. You can just imagine my surprise to have them tell me they had never looked at Alice's Adventures in Wonderland or Peter Pan. Talk about having a deprived childhood!
What also saddened me was the fact that it wasn't just tales of fantasy and wonder that got the evil eye by over righteous uber-Witnesses. It seems that anything that wasn't published by the WTS also got the thumbs down. I had elders criticize my ownership of books on mathematics, geography, and history. I never tolerated such talk from them and quickly and firmly told them that if they wanted to stay in ignorance and darkness, they were certainly welcome to, but I believed in real education. How dare they tell me that my God given mind should not be maintained and allowed to grow.
The experience RayPublisher shared about the Bethelite forced to get rid of his LOTR books really angered me. "Banned in Brooklyn" indeed! Such an order would have made me think long and hard about what kind of organization I was in. That attitude is the same one that led many churches to persecute free thinkers and burn them at the stake. WhatWasIThinking is right to say that anything fun or uplifting raises hackles. And I really liked Bangalore's observation that Russell's and Rutherford's books must also be disliked. Of course, the WTS can't come out and say that openly. But the fact that they have let them go out of print says a lot. Also, they would tell anyone interested in reading them that those writings represent "old light" and so don't contain the "truth" God has given his people today. I'm looking forward to more comments.
Quendi
-
30
"Banned in Brooklyn"
by Quendi ini hope this thread generates some discussion as well as some amusement.
i want to talk about "banned books".
back in the middle ages, the roman catholic church issued its index librorum prohibitorum, the list of prohibited books.
-
-
Quendi
I hope this thread generates some discussion as well as some amusement. I want to talk about "banned books". Back in the Middle Ages, the Roman Catholic Church issued its Index Librorum Prohibitorum, the List of Prohibited Books. Many prominent thinkers had their works listed because they took issue with Catholic teaching. But some works were named simply because Church authorities personally didn't like them, not for any doctrinal reasons.
Back when I was still in the organization, I got a shepherding call from the elders that was supposed to be encouraging. Such visits rarely were, but this one was particularly galling. I own some two thousand books, and my home at that time was wall-to-wall bookcases. Of course, I had a fair number of WTS publications, but those weren't prominently displayed or featured. Instead, books on mathematics, geography, history, science, and great works of literature crowded the shelves. I also love science-fiction and fantasy and my favorite all-time book is Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings.
Anyway, whenever different Witnesses would visit--which wasn't that frequently--they were usually staggered by my library. Some would make wisecracks about all the books and ask if I had yet read them all (I haven't). But they would also remark that they couldn't understand why I had so many "worldly" books and not that many of the WTS publications. I usually replied with the observation that more "worldly" books were published each year than WTS ones, and that anyway, "worldly" books were better written, had more interesting things to discuss, and were very often fun to read. Besides that, the books I collected spoke to my many varied interests. You can just imagine how that remark went over.
The books I received the most criticism over were, of course, Tolkien's works. "Don't you realize that his books are 'demonized'?" the elders would ask. "You're opening yourself up to demon influence when you read that stuff!" They would look embarrassed and surprised when I told them that Tolkien was a deeply religious man who was one of the translators of the Catholic Jerusalem Bible. How could a Bible translator be under demon influence, I would ask. The silence that followed was deafening.
Tolkien was a favorite target of the local Witnesses. But I was quite amused to learn that when the movies were released ten years ago, many local Witnesses not only went to see them, but acquired the videocassettes and later the DVDs! They would keep that secret and would only talk about their ownership in whispers or when nobody else was around. If the WTS ever published its own Index, I'm sure old Tollers would be near the top of its list. Does anybody else have any experiences to share about their reading habits and how the Witnesses viewed their choices? Has anyone ever been confronted with the notion that certain books should not be read or even handled by a Witness? What books do you think wold be "banned in Brooklyn"?
Quendi
-
40
When You Left The "Truth" Were People Shocked?
by minimus ini faded and when witnesses realized i had abandoned the faith, they were shocked!
no one would've ever believed that i would've left!
no one!!
-
-
Quendi
In my particular case, being disfellowshipped probably hurt some people in the different congregations I associated with and was known in Boulder, Colorado. Even though I never served as an elder or ministerial servant--bodies of elders tended to think of me as too "independent minded"--I had a very good reputation. I had pioneered for a couple of years in our very challenging territory. But I was also known as "The Answer Man" around here. I was very good at answering most questions the friends would ask. Not just religious ones, but questions on just about any topic. I am a polymath, and I freely shared what I knew with just about anybody. So the friends liked and trusted me, for the most part.
Several Witnesses still communicate with me. Some of them are "fading", but one is a ministerial servant in his congregation in Southern California. We talk to each other several times a week. Bless him, he is still trying to get me to drop my hard line against the organization and come back. "We really need you! The local brothers need you, too! Come back!" he pleads with me. But there is no way I will ever darken the doorstep of a Kingdom Hall again.
As for the close friends I had in the organization, most have never made any effort to contact me. I think some of them really do miss me, but many couldn't care less. However, I think others are constrained by fear. They think they are putting their prospects for everlasting life in dire peril if they so much as utter a syllable in my direction. And there are those who don't want to face the wrath of family members for violating WTS rules and possibly being disfellowshipped themselves.
The damage, pain, and harm this organization has done to families and friends is one of its greatest crimes. It preaches how it instills real Christian love among its followers, but we all know that isn't the case. What it gives its followers instead is an unhealthy view of real humanity. People are afraid of their own shadows. The Bible says, "There is no fear in love, but perfect love throws fear outside, because fear exercises a restraint. Indeed, he that is under fear has not been made perfect in love." (1 John 4:18) Those words say everything a person has to know about the cult the WTS has built and the control it exercises over its members. I'm glad to have got out alive.
Quendi
-
52
Would You Refer To Jehovah's Witnesses As A "Christian" Religion?
by minimus inthey regard themselves as "true christians".. do you view them as christians?.
-
-
Quendi
Few "Christian" religions resemble first century Christianity. That definitely includes Jehovah's Witnesses. The mainline churches, despite all their talk about having a "relationship" with Jesus and accepting him as a personal Savior, bear little or no resemblance to the Christianity presented in the New Testament either. Individuals can certainly be Christians, but I don't think organized religions are.
Quendi
-
40
When You Left The "Truth" Were People Shocked?
by minimus ini faded and when witnesses realized i had abandoned the faith, they were shocked!
no one would've ever believed that i would've left!
no one!!
-
-
Quendi
I know many were shocked when it was announced that I was "no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses." But as is so often the case, they soon got over it. Only a handful of people expressed any support for me or desire for me to return. Now it has been a year since I last attended any meeting and so it must be apparent that I will not come back.
Quendi