Posts by Quendi

57

The Real Issues Facing former Jehovah's Witnesses

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

on internet forums such as these, it is to be expected that there will be people who want to save jw's.

esp from (thinking for) themselves.. however, the real dillema's facing an ex jw who leaves, whether on their own terms or being disfellowshipped are real and haven't changed.. .

lonliness, how to make friends, is a big issue.. fear, esp fear based on superstition, a fear of god and of the future that is not in any way based in proveable fact.. education, how to think and reason critically to avoid being taken advantage of is a big challenge.. love, sex, and how to navigate your way around all of that hot mess.. geez, yeah, forgot.

Quendi

First, I want to say how much I appreciate being a member of this forum. People have been very kind, loving, and sometimes tolerant of my sermons. They saw that as giving me "my space", I suppose; but whatever the reason I am grateful. Some have reached out to me with PMs that were good for me to read and think about. Others have responded to my posts and threads in such a way as to make me feel I am making a positive contribution here.

I emerged from my thirty-five year association with Jehovah's Witnesses wounded (like most of us here), but with my faith in both God and the Bible intact. That faith and the beliefs I now have have been considerably altered to the point where I know there is no returning to the organization for me. I was a young college student (just short of my twentieth birthday) when I got baptized, and had some critical thinking ability--or so I thought. But even though I had learned to think for myself to a degree, I was seduced by the siren song of the WTS organization and doctrines. Furthermore, I met people in the organization of high intellect, deep integrity, and strong character whose love, friendship, and association I will always miss.

I also must say that there are some things I gained as a Witness that were very good for me. I realize that for many, their experience in the WTS was bad. Mine was mostly positive in the skills and knowledge I acquired. The greatest harm I suffered was the denial of who I really was, and accepting WTS teaching that made me hate and despise myself. Getting out has allowed me the detoxification that is making a big difference now for me. That has allowed me to face those issues this thread has raised about what kind of life I want and with whom I want to share it.

I am definitely a theist and will always remain one, but I have enjoyed the company of those who are agnostic or atheist in this space. They have made me think anew about issues I had formerly believed settled in my own mind. They have also allowed me to practice the tolerance and open-mindedness that I did not as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I am glad I discovered this forum, and I hope it will continue to assist any and all who are in need of the counsel and people they will find here.

Quendi

82

Watching the Leadership Crumble

by Damn The Watchtower in

jw
friends

i watch the watchtower leaders crumble, slowly crumble.

one nonsensical move after the other.

you have no idea how this makes me feel.

Quendi

I have found this thread which DTWT has introduced to be very interesting. The opinions have been varied and well presented. Here is my two cents worth. The problem, DTWT, as I see it is in the very title of this thread. You say the WTS's leadership is crumbling. To that I say, "Good!" For the men who sit on the Governing Body should certainly not be "leaders" in any sense. For a Christian, the only leader is Jesus Christ. --Matthew 23:8, 10

Some point to Matthew 24:45-47 as proof that Christ intended a body of men to have direction and control of his interests here on Earth. But the "faithful and discreet slave" mentioned in those verses was charged with feeding the disciples, not leading them. The subsequent appointment over the Lord's "belongings" was to continue feeding them, not to become some kind of ruling clique. (Matthew 23:11, 12) The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses has assumed a role which Christ did not intend it to have in the first place. It is no wonder that disarray and confusion have marked its tenure and will continue to do so.

Furthermore, if one examines the "food" this group has been serving, it becomes obvious that neither God nor his Son is its source. The flip-flops, the muddled thinking, the outright falsehoods, the mistaken interpretations, and the false prophecies are all compelling evidence that neither the present-day Governing Body, nor any of its predecessors has ever had divine sanction. God is a God, not of disorder but of peace, according to Paul's words at 1 Corinthians 14:33. The history of the WTS has been rife with discord, dissension, and disharmony from Charles Russell's time down to this very day. True, there is a façade of unity, but that has been maintained by fear and tyranny, not by love, kindness, and superiority of argument.

So I am not one of those who thinks the Governing Body should institute reforms to make its leadership better or more effective. What they should do is resign. If these men were truly concerned for the rank-and-file's welfare, they would do so at once. Instead, they hang on and impose even more pharisaical rules on the membership. They are more like ravenous wolves than sheep-like followers.

Quendi

54

JW's who remain in the organisation but try to reform it - pissing against the wind

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

i came across a website that presents decent argumentation against three main areas of jw doctrine.. http://jwreform.org/index.html.

who do these people think they are?

do they really believe that the wts will sit up and take notice of their objections?

Quendi

I completely agree with discreetslave on this issue. There is no way the WTS will reform itself. It has put itself in a vise of its own making with the claim of being the "one true religion" that is awaiting the 'end of the world'. Reform would mean dropping both of those key beliefs and I just don't see that happening.

Would Ray Franz's suggestions have made any fundamental changes? I don't think so. The strict codes on dress, grooming, and sexual mores would have remained in place. Witnesses would still be required to go in the field service. The ideal basic organizational unit would remain their 1950s version of an American nuclear family. Extreme homophobia still would have been emphasized. Women would not be allowed to have any voice or say in congregation matters. Congregations would be organized only along the lines that Brooklyn would consider appropriate.

The only substantial change which occurred on Ray Franz's watch was implementing the body of elders arrangement, and that was done over the strong opposition of N.H. Knorr, the WTS president at that time. Fred Franz liked the notion and finally endorsed it, although he later changed his mind. By then, however, it was too late. And the elder arrangement, as now implemented, is a complete disaster with those posts being held by men who are unqualified to do so. As some here have mentioned, "reform" would be an open admission of error and failure, and the WTS would rather rot in Gehenna before it ever made such an admission.

Yes, religions have made reforms and survived. However, there have also been many others who refused and became extinct. I really believe the WTS is in the latter category. The Society may eventually see the need to make changes, but by the time that dawns on the organization, it will be too little, too late.

Quendi

15

Patterson Bethelites and Reassignment

by Patty Cake in

hi eveyone,.

i grew up in a family of jw's, i was never baptized.

i have two brothers who are elders, one is a bethelite in patterson.

Quendi

The Society has closed its Costa Rica branch office and given responsibility for the work there to the Mexico branch. I suppose some of the branch staff were "reassigned" and others might simply have been let go. But "reassignment" is real, and the new locations aren't always nice choices, either. I know about a couple who had been in Brooklyn for more than thirty-five years. Their "reassignment" as special pioneers will see them banished to the Republic of Georgia, once part of the Soviet Union. Needless to say, they can't speak either Georgian or Russian, but they are being sent there anyway. The country is struggling with at least two secessionist movements, and Jehovah's Witnesses themselves face strong opposition from the Orthodox Church. It's a wonderful reward, isn't it, for a lifetime of service! This couple is meekly going to Georgia, but I have heard that others were quite upset about being reassigned.

Quendi

16

AN OPEN LETTER TO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

by hubert in

jw
friends

every year i like to bring up this letter for the "newbies" on this forum.. i found it very true, and right to the point.. thanks again, gaila noble.. hubert.

an open letter to jehovah's witnesses.

you may not remember, but i know you very well.

Quendi

Thank you for sharing this sad and honest letter and follow up. Many of us here can sympathize and empathize as we have lost friends and family to this cult. And while there is hope of reconnection and reconciliation for some, many of us will have to resign ourselves to our losses. Despite this, we continue our lives' journeys accompanied by new companions. My friends, I wish all of you the love, peace, and happiness you deserve.

Quendi

44

What was something that you loved but were denied as a JW?

by Chemical Emotions in

i could go on and on about all the things i loved, but i'll keep it brief and just mention one, rather trivial thing: music.

i love grunge and punk, and occasionally heavy metal, and can't listen to a lot of it as a witness..

Quendi

I'm glad that I can think freely as well as hold and express opinions on any subject. And I absolutely love celebrating BIRTHDAYS as well as Mother's and Father's Day again. Plus choosing my own friends and associates.

Quendi

14

It's been 12 years since the release of the 'Daniel' book

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

it was the summer of 1999. there i was sitting at the assembly when the speaker announces a new publication -daniel's prophecy or something like that.. there were a lot of eager dubs waiting to get their hands on that book.

we might learn the identity of the "king of the north"!

that's what i wanted to read, though in fact all the society had to say about that was "we are wise not to speculate".. looking back, it seems like this was the last book to properly address the end times prophecies - i didn't feel that way with the isaiah books, they simply regurgitated old stuff and made the anointed fit into every prophecy isaiah ever uttered.. it seems like the organization has gone on auto pilot, cutting costs, lowering print output and providing "how to live and function in the organization" books.. .

Quendi

One of the things about the Daniel's Prophecy book that struck me was the glaring inconsistency of the Society's interpretation of Daniel. We all know the utter nonsense of that is the WTS understanding of Daniel chapter four and Neb's tree dream. A number that is never even mentioned, 2,520, is given a time span of that many years because of the "rule" of "a day for a year". But when it comes to the span covered by the 1,290 days, the 1,335 days, and the 2,300 days--numbers that are specifically mentioned in the book of Daniel--suddenly they are literal days and not symbolic ones standing in for years instead! Yet nobody calls the WTS on this. Maybe it doesn't matter seeing that every other interpretation they have of Bible prophecy has proved to be absolute rubbish.

Quendi

9

"Reassignment" or Exile?

by Quendi in

hello friends,.

i know this has been brought up elsewhere, but i wanted to relate an experience a witness friend shared with me only last night.

i'd appreciate any additional details others may have on this topic.. many of us are aware that the wts is "downsizing" its staff at branch offices around the world, including brooklyn bethel.

Quendi

Thanks for the clarification, sir82, but how can they avail themselves of the "free medical & dental coverage as well as a small clothing allowance and reimbursement spent for gasoline on 'theocratic' activities" if they are in a foreign country? That might work in the West, but I doubt it has any practical effect if you are living elsewhere. In the U.S., gasoline is still fairly cheap, but that certainly isn't true in many other Western lands. And I don't see how this would help a special pioneer couple in the Republic of Georgia or some other third world country. That's what upset me the most about the particular case I highlighted. The Society didn't even have the decency to send this couple to seldom-worked territory Stateside. They could at least have done that. The experience cult classic shared actually made me sick to my stomach.

Quendi

9

"Reassignment" or Exile?

by Quendi in

hello friends,.

i know this has been brought up elsewhere, but i wanted to relate an experience a witness friend shared with me only last night.

i'd appreciate any additional details others may have on this topic.. many of us are aware that the wts is "downsizing" its staff at branch offices around the world, including brooklyn bethel.

Quendi

Hello Friends,

I know this has been brought up elsewhere, but I wanted to relate an experience a Witness friend shared with me only last night. I'd appreciate any additional details others may have on this topic.

Many of us are aware that the WTS is "downsizing" its staff at branch offices around the world, including Brooklyn Bethel. Veteran workers who have served for decades in these locations are now being given "reassignments" as special pioneers in other places. The company line is that these are simply new theocratic appointments to serve where the need is greater. What is really happening, in the argot of the business world, is that these people are actually being laid off. As special pioneers, they would receive a small monthly stipend from the Society but no further assistance. They will be expected to make it on their own in the new "assignment".

The case my Witness friend and I discussed last night involves a Bethel elder who has been in Brooklyn since 1975. He and his wife were given a special pioneer assignment in Georgia. What's so bad about that, you might ask? Well, this is not Georgia, USA. Instead, the new location is the Republic of Georgia in troubled Southwest Asia! The Republic of Georgia itself is hardly friendly territory. Witnesses are under the gun there for various reasons. The country itself is contending with not one, but two, secessionist movements and has teetered on the brink of civil war for several years.

There's more. Neither this man nor his wife speak Russian or Georgian. So they don't know the national languages, know little or nothing about the region or its history, and both are approaching sixty years of age. Since they have served in Bethel for decades, they have no Social Security on which they can draw. They have no pension or retirement plan. They will not have access to any kind of free or reduced-cost medical care. The Society will not provide or give them any of these things. They'll be given a hug and a kiss, flown to Tblisi, Georgia's capital, and then cut loose. They'll have to rely on the local Witnesses for assistance in settling in, learning the languages, and other needs. My Witness friend says that knowing the husband as she does, he will probably accept this assignment as being a divine decree. She was absolutely appalled when I told her what the circumstances behind this "reassignment" really mean.

I don't know which is worse: the callousness of the organization in exiling this couple and many others like them to places that are "out of sight and out of mind", or the mindset of this couple that can't see how they are being screwed. This is their reward for being loyal workers and giving a lifetime of service in Brooklyn! I'm not arguing against the need for staff reductions in various places with new equipment doing the work that used to require several humans. But even hardened corporate bean counters give laid off workers a severence package of at least several weeks' pay and temporary benefits while they look for a new job. The WTS can't be troubled. And it's not like it doesn't have the money to provide for these people, either. The pittance their monthly stipend represents will hardly be enough to provide the necessities.

On the other hand, such treatment should open the eyes of its recipients. Sadly, it doesn't seem to be having that effect. They meekly submit to this kind of abuse. This situation is another proof for me that the WTS is as corrupt as the "world" it so loves to condemn. When my Witness friend told me she didn't have a word to describe what the Society was doing, I said, "I know one word that is perfect; and that word is EVIL." What do the rest of you think? Comment is certainly invited.

Quendi

39

Refuting Franz's Crisis of Conscience

by irondork in

i'm about halfway through crisis of conscience.

some pretty extraordinary stuff in there.. wondering, aside from telling people not to read "apostate material", has there been any official denial or refutation of the books contents by the watchtower society, official or otherwise?.

side note: franz is a wonderful writer, if a bit repetitive in places.

Quendi

I thought I would insert this paragraph from Ray Franz's Crisis of Conscience because it has much bearing on this thread.

"In 1993, the organization produced a new history book, titled Jehovah’s Witnesses—Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom, replacing a previous work titled Jehovah’s Witnesses in the Divine Purpose. It seems evident that at various points the book seeks to counter the effect of the information that has appeared in published form in recent years, including the 1983 printing of this book, Crisis of Conscience, the 1991 printing of its sequel, In Search of Christian Freedom, and Carl Olof Jonsson’s book, The Gentile Times Reconsidered (which first appeared in 1983.) Certain facts are admitted for the first time in this new history book, perhaps with the view of muting the effect if members were to become aware of them through other sources."

One can only wonder what the WTS will do in light of the growing backlash the Internet has created.

Quendi