Posts by Quendi

40

If there was a pill that could open their eyes - would you give it to them?

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

if there was a pill you could give to your jw family members that would awaken their eyes to the truth about the cult, would you give it to them?.

most would probably say yes.. but what about those who are completely institutionalized, the elderly, the super zealous, the geeky kids who have no friends, the misfits?.

some people need "boundaries", they need someone to lead and give them directions, they need a sense of belonging, even in an organization that has no social programs.

Quendi

The original post does look at the "law of unintended consequences" of such a scenario and I think that is very wise. To give an example from recent history, I think that most Americans rejoiced when communism collapsed in Eastern Europe in 1989 and the USSR imploded in 1991. After all, those developments meant an end to tyranny and dictatorship for many. But who could have forseen what has followed (including the ongoing crisis in Ukraine) that has followed? The removal of one evil has allowed others to rise in its place. I think that could be the same with the TTATT pill.

Appreciating TTATT was not something that came about all at once for any of us. It took time for us to acknowledge it and then act on that knowledge. For many, including Yours Truly, this has been an ongoing process as well that is far from complete. As difficult as the process has been for me personally, I am glad it has taken time and was not something that came as a "bolt out of the blue." I don't think I would have handled that very well, and I might say the same would be true for others.

Quendi

12

Michael Sam Story on the ESPY'S. He was raised a JW.

by integ in

michael sam...the football player who came out as gay, received an award on the espy's sports award show last night.

they had a video presentation documenting his struggles and it was brought out in the video piece that as a jehovah's witness, he was prohibited from playing in organized team sports...but that he went and defiantly played anyway.

so, sam not only had to overcome the gay issue but also that of being a witness.

Quendi

Maybe Michael Sam's mother maintained communication with him as long as he had not come out. Now that he has publicly, she may feel she will be disfellowshipped if she acknowledges his existence in any way whether he was ever baptized or not. Just one more reason to have nothing to do with this execrable cult.

Quendi

36

Fading, Stopping Meetings, DA or DF'ing, Thoughts on Getting the Hell Out Of There

by OnTheWayOut in

so i read some threads about why someone remains a ministerial servant or elder, or why they are still active jw's.

others are telling stories about how they cut back slowly, and some of them got removed as ms/elder/pioneer or whatever.

yet others tell of how they just up and stopped going one day.

Quendi

As many know, I was disfellowshipped in 2005 for being a gay man. At that time, I still believed the WTS was "God's organization" and made every effort to be reinstated. But even as I was doing that, an elder who remained in touch with me told me my hopes were in vain, that he knew the men on my judicial committee and they would never reinstate me. It took me a couple of years to realize he was telling the truth. Nevertheless, I persisted in seeking reinstatement because there were people in the congregations I associated with who were important to me. My plan was to return and then do a rapid fade. I was trying to have it both ways.

In the meantime, I had learned TTATT and realized I owed nothing to this organization. Finally, late in the fifth year of my exile, I met one final time with my judicial committee. My request for reinstatement was denied and I walked out of the kingdom hall never to set foot in it again. I have decided I will not attend any other gathering of Witnesses again for any reason whatsoever and feel all the better for it. In my case it was a combination of TTATT and the homophobia with its subsequent mistreatment that made me walk away. I have never regretted that decision. While I despise the WTS and all of its dark works, I still have compassion for many of my former associates. I doubt that they will leave because they have believed the lie that there is 'nowhere else to go.' That is most unfortunate because if they can find the courage to leave, they'll find the real life.

Quendi

14

How do people get out of High control or Religious cult with their mind intact????

by jam in

www.exitsupportnet.com.

walk out, kicked out ,burn out or find out.. interesting read..... it's great we have the support system here.......

Quendi

Thanks for relating your experience, Giordano. I enjoyed reading it and am very happy about its resolution. For me, I would have to say that I did not get out of Jehovah's Witnesses with my mind intact. Instead, I found it was broken and has had to be completely rebuilt. I first had to accept the fact that the WTS and its Governing Body are not in any way tied in to God or possess any divine knowledge. Accepting this led to a period of grieving just as if I had suffered the loss of a close friend or family member. Once I did this I could start on a real life journey which has involved many things.

Accepting the fact that I am a gay man and deserved to have a good and fulfilling life as one was a major step. That meant purging more of the odious WTS theology out of my life but it made it possible for me to find a life partner. I also found a new spiritual community which has opened its arms wide in acceptance. That has led to a rediscovery of my faith in God and what that should mean in my life. Coming to this forum has played a role that cannot be overemphasized for here I found people who have aided me immeasureably and without whom I would have accomplished far, far less than I have these last four years.

The latest development has been how I now relate to the Bible. I still have enormous respect for it, but the fundamentalist theology the WTS has promoted in connection with it is something that I have finally let go. The Bible is useful in many ways to me, and I still have faith in the promises it makes for a better life now and in the future for all humanity. But I also now believe that the bulk of its writings apply to a different time, people and place. That belief has freed me to pursue my spirituality with a different focus and intent than I had as a Witness.

In short, coming out of this high control cult has involved an ongoing development of mind and spirit for me. The rebuilding of my life has at times been painful and difficult, but I believe it has also been well worth it. I am glad that I am "no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses" because that has allowed me to realize the truth of what George Eliot once wrote: "It is never too late to be what you might have been."

Quendi

26

At some point in the future, you WILL be gay.

by rory-ks in

jw
friends

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgekcfofaau.

Quendi

The WTS will never accept homosexuality, OTWO. Its leadership would rather die and rot in Gehenna's basement first. That would be akin to letting "apostates" remain in the ranks of Jehovah's Witnesses for as far as the Governing Body is concerned, LGBT people might as well be apostates. When I was confronted with 1 Corinthians 6:9, 10 by my judicial committee, I turned the tables on them by asking that since Paul also mentions drunkards in that passage, did the WTS understand him to mean that such people could now consume alcohol since they were 'washed clean' and therefore had no reason to fear a relapse. That question was met with an angry and frustrated silence as they realized that could not be the case but that conceding the point was rejecting WTS doctrine and therefore apostacy. Thereafter the committee focused its questions on how loyal I was to the Governing Body and not on whether I was a gay man or not.

The WTS still believes that being gay is a deliberate choice and that fervent prayer, regular meeting attendance, intense personal study and active canvassing are enough to purge it out of a person's mind and heart. If the leadership were to espouse any other viewpoint, this would open the floodgates to accepting other things which run directly counter to WTS theology. And once that acceptance became a reality, the chokehold the leadership has over the rank-and-file would be broken and the organization would implode. We need to constantly remember that this is a cult and the only way it will make radical changes such as accepting homosexuality would lead to its destruction.

Quendi

26

At some point in the future, you WILL be gay.

by rory-ks in

jw
friends

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgekcfofaau.

Quendi

That there is an ongoing phobia about homosexuality at Bethel can be seen in the application for the place. A friend of mine was thinking about applying for temporary work there back in the late nineties. Among the questions on the form were those which asked if he had ever been disciplined for homosexuality and if he was a homosexual. My friend is gay but celibate. Upon seeing these questions, he told me he felt a great sense of anger and outrage and returned the application to the service committee. That told me the Society is well aware of the presence of a gay underground at its Bethel sites. The leadership is very foolish if it thinks applicants will answer in the affirmative to either question. I also have to wonder why any gay man would want to live and work in such a hostile environment but I suppose each person would have his reasons.

Quendi

26

At some point in the future, you WILL be gay.

by rory-ks in

jw
friends

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgekcfofaau.

Quendi

There are several contributors to this site, problemaddict, who will certainly confirm what I have said about gay life at headquarters. Look at the threads they have posted on to get more information about this. Backseatdevil is one of them and there are others.

Quendi

34

Eight questions about Nathan Knorr

by Skimmer in

jw
friends

i have some questions about nathan knorr, the third president (1942-1977) of the wtbts.

accurate answers are welcome.. 1) how did it come about that knorr was made president of the wtbts in 1942 after the death of joseph rutherford?

rutherford as we know was an usurper inheritor of russell's wtbts in late 1916 after russell went to his reward.

Quendi

Nathan Knorr was a complicated man and re-reading these posts I get the impression that he was a rather lonely one. I wonder how many real friends he had and if he ever found true love in his life. I remember the night he died which was 8 June 1977. My congregation in Tuscaloosa, Alabama was aware of his illness so his death came as no surprise to us. We were having our School and Service Meeting when one of elders made the annoucement of his death at the close of the meeting. The congregation's reaction was subdued.

Although he has been dead for 37 years he cast a long and dark shadow over the organization. As others have noted, he was not overly concerned with doctrinal matters, leaving those in the hands of Fred Franz, the man who fancied himself both oracle and prophet for the organization and believed that he was being directly used by God to disseminate truth. I think the biggest impact he had on my life as a Witness was the creation of the Theocratic Ministry School back in 1943 (women weren't allowed to participate until 1957), one of the few features of Witness organization which directly benefited me. On the whole, however, I would have to judge the School a failure. It was an ill-advised attempt to make silk purses out of sows' ears. Most of the Witnesses I knew were rotten at the canvassing work and their public speaking skills ranged from downright bad to mediocre. Knorr had to realize that as well especially since he himself was not a good public speaker--if the talks I heard him give were any indication of his ability.

But it was his stance on disfellowshipping and cracking down on dissent that will be the chief part of his legacy among Jehovah's Witnesses. Since his acumen was organization, this was his way of creating and enforcing an artificial unity among the rank-and-file. In his day that was relatively easy because there were fewer than three million Witnesses worldwide. That number has practically tripled since his death and his successors are finding it much more difficult to keep the status quo especially now that the Internet has lifted the veil of secrecy which shrouded the organization's history and inner workings at its highest levels. As bad as the current Governing Body is, I doubt that if Knorr and his associates were alive today they would be doing any better in leading the organization.

Quendi

26

At some point in the future, you WILL be gay.

by rory-ks in

jw
friends

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgekcfofaau.

Quendi

I think the WTS is running scared when it comes to LGBT issues. It sees the rising tide of acceptance as a direct attack against its "base." And now, to its horror, the United States stands on the brink of ending centuries of discrimination and finally sanctioning not only same-sex marriage but ending discrimination against LGBT people in the workplace.

I no longer doubt the presence of gay men in the upper echelons of the WTS and even the Governing Body itself. There has been an underground gay community at Brooklyn and Wallkill for decades. Likely there is one at Patterson as well and when the headquarters transfers to Warwicki, New York, the gay cells will go with it. The deep homophobia the WTS exhibits tells me that many of its leaders are gay themselves and are very insecure men. Perhaps they think that since they haven't been able to "pray the gay away" in their own lives, strident denunciation will do the trick. But if that is their belief, they are going to find that won't work either. What will they do then?

Quendi

21

Prediction: The organization to ease up on disfellowshipping for apostasy.

by kneehighmiah in

jw
friends

i believe the organization is already easing up on disfellowshipping people for apostasy.

they know most doubters just want to be left alone.

disfellowshipping them turns them into martyrs.

Quendi

The only way the WTS will ease up on disfellowshipping is to stop the practice entirely and that is something it will never do. That would effectively end the control it has over individuals as well as congregations and no cult willingly does that.

Quendi