Posts by DesirousOfChange

8

Import / Export (Watchtower)

by TJ Curioso in

and now, a finding that intrigued me.. .

i always thought that the bulk of the publications come out of new york to other parts of the globe, if not produced in these last.

true?.

Necessary business with Disfellowshipped ones

by Quarterback in

i was reading our study article for next week's wt study there is a subheading in there about treatment of disfellowshipped ones.

in one paragraph they slam the term, "necessary business" when dealing with a family member who is df'd.. this is so confusing.

in one hand they have coined that phrase "necessary business" with relatives that have df relatives.

DesirousOfChange

Can't understand why authorities don't catch up to this as "unfair business practice" and/or "discrimination"

In this context it's applying to family relationships. No laws apply. While you cannot pick who your family members are, you can decide not to associate with them for any or no reason. Period.

However, in the US, if they were to instantly "cut off" business relationships, that is, firing employees because they got DFd, or cancelling leases to residential rental property, then I think they would be opening themselves up to religious discrimination lawsuits. However, relationships with subcontractors etc are not subject to the same discrimination laws.

In the past, the "family business" exception was tolerated for almost anything. Elders were to stay clear of determining what constituted "family business". Only if the amount of associated with DFd famly members became an issue in the congregation, then those persons may no longer qualify for privledges -- Elder, MS, Pioneer, etc. but associating with DFd family members could never be cause to DF anyone. If there was no family relationship, that is a different story. One warning, or a brazen attitude about it and YOU'RE OUT!

Surely, evidently, it is reasonable to conclude.... (like that terminology?) this article is an attempt to tighten up on the flagrant association with DFd family and will no doubt be used to strongarm those who "abuse" the exception.

DOC

49

New here looking for some help

by angel.face in

jw
friends

long story short, i have been a jw for the pst 7 years.

i am married with 2 kids.

hubby is a die hard jw who is an ms and would like to be elder.

DesirousOfChange

If you run circles round them they will be aware of it but can do nothing.

A word of caution: This exercise is becoming more risky as the BRAZEN conduct card has the deck stacked in their favor. THat changed the rules. Do anything that is "BRAZEN" (which could be damn near anything they want it to be) and you'll find a brick wall at the end of your run.

DOC

23

How would you respond to this JWs assertions?

by Vanderhoven7 in

my questions posted to mr. penny.

do jehovah's witnesses teach their members to shun ex-jehovah witness family members living outside the home?

do you support this practice?

DesirousOfChange

WT74 11/15 pg 704 Question From Readers (yeah, right!)

? Do lewd practices on the part of a married person toward that one’s own mate constitute a Scriptural basis for the offended mate to get a divorce?

There are times when lewd practices within the marriage arrangement would provide a basis for a Scriptural divorce. Of course, the Holy Scriptures do not encourage divorce nor do they command the innocent party to divorce a mate who engages in adultery or gross sexual perversion.
Regarding divorce, Jesus Christ stated: “Whoever divorces his wife, except on the ground of fornication, and marries another commits adultery.” (Matt. 19:9) “Everyone divorcing his wife, except on account of fornication, makes her a subject for adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.”—Matt. 5:32.
Thus “fornication” is set forth as the only ground for divorce. In the common Greek in which Jesus’ words are recorded, the term “fornication” is por?nei′a, which designates all forms of immoral sexual relations, perversions and lewd practices such as might be carried on in a house of prostitution, including oral and anal copulation.
As to Jesus’ statements about divorce, they do not specify with whom the “fornication” or por?nei′a is practiced. They leave the matter open. That por?nei′a can rightly be considered as including perversions within the marriage arrangement is seen in that the man who forces his wife to have unnatural sex relations with him in effect “prostitutes” or “debauches” her. This makes him guilty of por?nei′a, for the related Greek verb por?neu′o means “to prostitute, debauch.”
Hence, circumstances could arise that would make lewd practices of a married person toward that one’s marriage mate a Scriptural basis for divorce. For example, a wife may do what she reasonably can to prevent her husband from forcing upon her perversions such as are carried on in a brothel. Yet, due to his greater strength, he might overpower her and use her for perverted sex. So as not to be prostituted in this way at another time, a Christian wife may decide to get a divorce. She could establish with the congregation that the real reason for this is por?nei′a and then proceed to get a legal divorce on any truthful grounds acceptable to the courts of the land.
If, on the other hand, the lewd practices were engaged in by mutual consent, neither mate would have a basis for claiming por?nei′a as a Scriptural ground for divorce. This is so because neither party is innocent and seeking freedom from a mate guilty of por?nei′a. Both marriage partners are guilty. Such a case, if brought to the attention of elders in the congregation, would be handled like any other serious wrongdoing.

37

Shunning,, let's twist the knife in a little deeper now !

by man in black in

this morning i took my dog who is a therapy dog over to the hospital and visited with several patients.

it is quite an experience, and it really helps people undergoing medical treatment to calm down and relax.. my wife was one of those patients, she is undergoing some tests before getting her gall bladder removed which will probably be sometime tomorrow.. afterwards i took the dog home, cleaned her up, and changed my clothes.

since i was alone i drove over to panara to try one of their breakfast sandwiches, several of the nurses told me that they are pretty good.

DesirousOfChange

"And as I sat there it really hit me how conditional friendships are with the jw's."

Please remember that there may have been persons among the group who would have like to have given you a greeting and asked about you (and your wife, once they heard she was hospitalized), but in the group setting they could not

31

My first English Essay for college, I wrote about my experience as a JW.

by JonathanH in

jw
friends

so i am in my first semester of college, and i'm really enjoying it.

i am already tired since i work full time in addition to going to school full time, but i will get over that hump eventually.

anyway in my english 101 class our first essay due was to be a personal narrative, 4 pages(ish), in mla format using microsoft word.

DesirousOfChange

It would be great to see it picked up and published by Reader's Digest or something similar.

13

In Orange County, California, it is illegal to hold a religious meeting in your home.

by What-A-Coincidence in

jw
friends

http://www.infowars.com/california-city-closes-down-bible-study-in-private-home/.

in orange county, california, it is illegal to hold a religious meeting in your home.. this is what chuck and stephanie fromm, of san juan capistrano, discovered when they were fined $300 earlier this month for holding a bible study class on their property.. officialdom in the county said the couple were singled out because it is considered illegal to hold a regular gathering of more than three people on private property.

officials stated that the fromms require a license to hold meetings in their home.. san juan capistrano authorities claim home bible study is not allowed because it is a church, and churches require a conditional use permit (cup) in residential areas.. the fromms face additional fines of $500 per meeting for any further religious gatherings in their home, according to the pacific justice institute.. the citys action is a brazen violation of the first amendment, which guarantees free worship without government intervention.. pji and the fromms plan to appeal a decision made by the city to uphold the fine and restriction to the california superior court in orange county, according to kcoy 12 news, a fox affiliate.. ironically, the city of san juan capistrano was founded as a mission in the late 1700s by catholic priest junipero serra.

DesirousOfChange

OH MY GOD!

Does this mean a person could not hold an Amway meeting each Wed night in their home?

OR, does it ONLY apply to religious meetings?

A good ACLU lawyer is going to tear Orange County a new @$$hole and hopefully the Fromms will end up with LOT$ of CA$H $ETTLEMENT for all this overbearing govenement crap!

DOC

23

Have you noticed that the Watchtower is not emphasizing how close the end is as much?

by stuckinamovement in

maybe i am off base, but it seems that the last year or so hasn't had the standard retoric about how "imminent, close, or soon" the end will be.

it seems as if the focus is now on obeying the governing body.

have you noticed this?.

DesirousOfChange

If it's true that Watchtower is not emphasizing how close the end is as much?.........

Could it be that as the Bethel heavies read this board they came across the thread or 32 pages by OBVES entitled "CLOSE TO THE END OF THE WORLD" which goes into detail about the 70 week of years and the prophetic significance of 607BC + 2520 = 1914.

All of this seems particularly timely right now considering the New Light at the Dist Conv on this prophecy.

But then take a closer look at OBVES's "CLOSE TO THE END" thread -----------(Did someone shout: How Close Is It??)

It's from NINE F&%KING YEARS AGO!

Of course, it's one that that OBVES was saying that NINE years ago.

WT was saying that 109 years ago!

23

How would you respond to this JWs assertions?

by Vanderhoven7 in

my questions posted to mr. penny.

do jehovah's witnesses teach their members to shun ex-jehovah witness family members living outside the home?

do you support this practice?

DesirousOfChange

Would previous members of your organization still be "dead to JWs" if they had been disfellowshipped for expressing their independent thinking on the subject of organ transplants in the 70s? Let's say they saved the life of one of their children by allowing them to have a kidney transplant when transplants were banned by your organization? If today they are still unrepentant about saving their child, would they be exonerated for having being right and obeying their conscience instead of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses?

Vanderhoven, that's a great question to ask!

65

Higher Education and Disqualification for Privileges in the Congregation

by 00DAD in

when i was still serving as an elder in the late summer of 2006 in a congregation of jws in socal we received a letter from the "christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses" (read: the governing body) directing that anyone pursuing a higher education would be disqualified from privileges of service: elder, servant, pioneer, etc.

i remember this quite distinctly because i had just received by ba in education in june a few months before this.

in 2002, i had decided to pursue a degree under the society's then current "it's a personal decision" policy and was quite shocked at their drastic policy change.

DesirousOfChange

My son's best friend just completed 6 year university doctorate.

$130,000/year qualifies as "living wage" in my book.

Oh yeah, 3-year contract, $30K signing bonus once he decided what company to work for from the 5 offers he received.

Locally, lots of young ones going to college. Esp nursing. No waves with their fathers' positions as long as the kids stay active.

DOC