trevorbv

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Posts by trevorbv

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  26

  Who cares about Jesus?

  by brotherdan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  one thing that initially disturbed me when i was questioning the organization was their lack of focus on jesus.

  whether you believe in him or not, you have to admit that jws focus mainly on jehovah and his organization.

  to the apostles their entire message was about jesus.

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  trevorbv
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  13

  How is the transfer from a congregation handled by the elders?

  by trevorbv in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if any of you were elders how is the transfer from a congregation handled?

  how do elders know where to send the proclaimer's file and letter of recommendation?

  does it go through the local branch if in the same country?

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  trevorbv

  It would be extraordinarily easy to "intercept" your own cards, if you had a willing accomplice who was willing to be dishonest & pose as a secretary, & could speak enough "theocratic jargon" to pass muster. Especially if that accomplice lived far away, preferably in another state. Quite frankly, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.

  If you want to fade away and have the possibility to move to a far congregation for a while, I guess you can have some fun. Anyway all that information is about you, and is kept even if you don't want to (yeah, I know they put you to sign on the file that you agree that they should keep it, but you can't change your mind). If you are caught, you can say that you meet some JWs on the street and the guy said that he was the secretary and you gave him your congregations details. What can they do to you? You want out, you don't care! They should understand that people love their friends and their family and you can't just take them away because of different oppinions . Things people do for love and for fun.
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  13

  How is the transfer from a congregation handled by the elders?

  by trevorbv in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if any of you were elders how is the transfer from a congregation handled?

  how do elders know where to send the proclaimer's file and letter of recommendation?

  does it go through the local branch if in the same country?

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  trevorbv

  Thanks yknot for the letter.

  If you really want to, you can hijack it, like in the movies. But in the end, who really cares, they will just brag about how evil the apostates are and how Satan tries to attack the Jehovah's innocent people. Better do something usefull in life.
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  13

  How is the transfer from a congregation handled by the elders?

  by trevorbv in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if any of you were elders how is the transfer from a congregation handled?

  how do elders know where to send the proclaimer's file and letter of recommendation?

  does it go through the local branch if in the same country?

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  trevorbv

  If any of you were elders how is the transfer from a congregation handled? How do elders know where to send the proclaimer's file and letter of recommendation? Does it go through the local branch if in the same country? How about international transfers (from a congregation in a country to one in another country)? Can the process be hijacked?
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  21

  So has the wt given up on prophecy altogether or what?

  by agonus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for decades they've produced massive tomes on their own peculiar brand of wt-centric prophecy, but it seems like the production of prophecy-related material as of late has slowed to a trickle, their last prophecy-related book that i can recall was the minor-prophets book released a few years back.

  however that book if i recall was very vague in its exposition, focusing on daily life application rather than eschatology.

  and yet the armageddon-end-times-obedience-"generation" drumbeat grows faster and louder with less and less exposition as to how or when exactly any of this is supposed to play out.

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  trevorbv

  I was thinking the same thing about the lack of prophecies in the latest WT books. I can think of several possible reasons:

  1. They prepare a change in prophecies, so they are making the current ones "forgoten", they don't put emphasys on them so when the new ones come JWs will accept them easily, like nothing changed. (Did we belived otherwise in past? I didn't know!)

  2. They realised that prophecies can make them look bad and ridiculous when they fail and they focus on the practical side.

  3. They realised that they can't draw people to the ORG with reason, since religion is not based on reason but on tradition, authority and the desire to belive in something. So they try to draw them by being social and friendly. (When they give advice about how to speak to someone in the preaching work, now they emphase that you should show personal interest, smile and avoid disputes rather than open the Bible).

  4. They don't have good theologians any more. Even if they have they are afraid to change something important since the WT maze could collapse.

  JWs becomes more and more a social organization, but they have little chances of succes since the majority goes to the KH because of the teachings. The social benefits of being a JWs are mediocre at best.
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  51

  In 25 Years Will The WT.Organization Still Be Around?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think so.

  and i doubt it'll grow much, if at all, but i think it will still be around.. what do you think?.

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  trevorbv

  I think JWs will face serious problems as the world becomes more technologically advanced. People search for reviews on the internet for all sorts of stuff, event when they buy meaningless things. If they are going to make a move that import as to become a witness surely they will make some research. So people who will be aproached by JWs at their door, I think they will check them out. Of course the existing members are mostly doomed, their crisis must begin within, since the GB equivals reading criticism of the organization to having connections with the Devil. This remainds me of a briliant quote from 1984, mandatory reading for all here: "Until they became conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious." (George Orwell). So the target for the JWs will be the uninformed and the credulous (since forever).

  So I think, our duty, the ones who are "free" is to make that information available. I plan to start a blog in my native language (not english, as you probablly figured out) in which to write what made me reach this conclusion (I've searched on Google and I can find very few negative articles about JWs and they are written by other religious freaks who defend they're religion, rather by ex-JWs).

  Also their doctrin will create them problems, it will need "improvement": they will change again their generation explanation in about 30 years, the 144.000 will not be sufficient for all annointed ones so it will become symbolic, a change in world power may occur and a change in their Daniel prophecy explanation is very probable. And now they can't hide their history since lots of info is available on the WT CD. Here it comes to mind another 1984 quote : " Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past". They will not be longer controlling the past, at least not to that extend and thus the future.

  I belive that "science will win" and everyone of us can help it.
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  56

  If you could ask one question to an active JW to get them to open their mind about their beliefs, what would it be?

  by Franklin Massey in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this question was posed to me by a poster named ice cream.

  i don't know my answer yet.

  it's one of those, "if you could have just one wish.." kind of questions.

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  trevorbv

  An interesting question would be: Do you think the GB is inspired by God?

  The average witness admits that they are not inspired, but he thinks that in some strange way they are. (See Reasoning pag. 135 par. 1). Some say: "They have the holy spirit", whatever that means. But did God's holy spirit told them to write in 1995 that the generation referred the wicked ones? I guess not.

  And if they are not inspired why should you listen to them, how are they superior to you? If they make mistakes why should you trust them?

  This will not change the mind of an indoctrinated witness by countless meetings at the kingdom hall. But it may make him start questioning, be curious, start researching, if he is smart and courageous enough. Some will react "violently" saying: "How do you dare ask that? Don't trust God?". They are hopeless for the moment, don't open the subject for a while.
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  32

  Jonny, the WTB&TS, and hacking

  by MeanMrMustard in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is my first thread at jwn.

  i have posted only a few times on other threads.

  i am a third generation jw turned ex-jw, inactive for six years.

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  trevorbv

  Surelly WTBTS monitors the web for copyright infrigment, but there's no way they are trying to hunt the infiltrated "apostates". First you really need to be a real guru in hacking and the most you can obtain are IPs, member e-mails and passwords. Then you need a database to compare them to, but besides the name and the monthly reports I don't think they keep private info about members. Even if they would manage to identify someone, how can they use the information? Send it to the elders? What is the proof? The Society will never admit into hacking forums, since it is a criminal act. I guess some of the members of this forum have a lot of imagination and don't know much about computers. Surelly anything can be cracked on the internet, but WTBTS lacks the skills to do it and the motivation. I think they are sincere people captives of the concept the God somehow speaks to them and would not turn to such low practices.

  Anyway the greatest trap is your browser history, if you are an undercover witness. I would suggest setting your browser to delete its history upon exiting.

  Speaking of hacking, of greater interest will be the hacking of the jw.org website. If not the site maybe an elder account or an account that allows you to upload stuff like magazines.
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  20

  Get 'deleted' or resign as a ministerial servant?

  by trevorbv in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm a ministerial servant for some years now, but reached to the conclusion that i must get out of jws as soon as possible.

  i can no longer waste my time in field service, at the kh or doing menial jobs for the congregation.

  for some months now my field report is with one digit at the hours section and with empty spaces in magazines, brochures and the others.

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  trevorbv

  Thanks all for your replays.

  A "low profile member"? As an MS?

  Well I guess it depends on the size of the congregation and on the elders.
  I think they didn't made a move yet since they can't belive my decline. I was a pretty active and convinced proclaimer .
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  20

  Get 'deleted' or resign as a ministerial servant?

  by trevorbv in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm a ministerial servant for some years now, but reached to the conclusion that i must get out of jws as soon as possible.

  i can no longer waste my time in field service, at the kh or doing menial jobs for the congregation.

  for some months now my field report is with one digit at the hours section and with empty spaces in magazines, brochures and the others.

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  trevorbv

  Hi everybody,

  I'm a ministerial servant for some years now, but reached to the conclusion that I must get out of JWs as soon as possible. I can no longer waste my time in field service, at the KH or doing menial jobs for the congregation. For some months now my field report is with one digit at the hours section and with empty spaces in magazines, brochures and the others. The actual hours I'm reporting are those in which I try to reason with my JWs friends and point them 'interesting' things I have found out doing 'research' or scientific facts that don't go well with our known pseudo-science proofs of creationism .

  I thought of quiting JWs for good but for my friends and family I decided I will better fade out. This was a brilliant post, by the way. I started to became a low profile member by no longer giving answers at the meetings, skipping meetings and quiting field service.

  Anyway now I'm thinking of quiting as a ministerial servant, but I don't know what would be better: to go to the elders with a resignation letter and tell them that I can no longer be a MS or continue the non-involving strategy and eventually get deleted.

  I myself think the first way is better since is eases the pressure of being watched, questioned and 'encouraged'? Of course that the resignation must be performed with great care and it should not give away my real reasons. What do you think? Was any of you in a similar position?

  Thanks.