lauralisa

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Posts by lauralisa

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  20

  Glacial Change/Dec.1, 2001 WT

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  latest wt (questions often pretended to be from readers).

  lets you pray for df'd people in private.

  wow, this.

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  lauralisa

  is there any scriptural basis used to justify the dictate to NOT pray for a DF'd person?

  I mean a real one, and not some extrapolation of the context of some scripture.

  Thanks in advance.

  It's only water from a stranger's tear (Peter Gabriel)
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  19

  Why do some believe in alien conspiracies?

  by Seeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been thinking why a few here buy into things such as the illuminati conspiracies, or secret alien takeovers of our society, the masons taking over the world, and other far-fetched ideas.

  i'm sure there are an abundant number of reasons for this, some of which apply to people in general.

  but i think there are factors that are unique to those who have left high-control groups such as the wts.

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  lauralisa

  Hi Seeker:

  Your question is completely legitimate and reasonable.

  For some, the supposed existence of these things is an attempt to articulate metaphysical concepts and is an intellectual stimulus. Wrestling with the problem ie whether they exist is an entertaining pastime.

  For others, there is an investment, for reasons I cannot understand, in trying to convince others that weird stuff happens... like people don't already know that....

  For yet others, and I include myself in this group, there is an urge to heal from indescribable pain and loss because of the abuse that was inflicted upon them by people who actively subscribe to and engage in these weird things.

  There is no language for some of life's experiences. Just a scream inside, or a compulsion to find some kind of explanation or rationale for why such twisted, damaging hate exists. Why people buy into such conspiracies. Why they need and are so willing to provide "sacrifices" - usually their own children.

  As a person who was personally a witness and victim of atrocities committed in the name of some of these so-easily-dismissed and laughable little theories, I have suffered horror and fear such that my mind has broken.

  I want it back. My mind, that is. Part of accomplishing that is trying to define just what happened. Who was evil? Why? Why me? How does God or anyone else for that matter tolerate the existence of such breathtakingly hideous evil? Just how much power and influence do they still retain, on me, or anyone else for that matter? How can I even determine this, when they are so phenomenally adept at disguising themselves? When people demand proof that they exist, when there is none, and the whole thing is dismissed as a joke by 99.99 % of everyone you ever met?

  I agree with Patio, line for line. What rational person wouldn't? I want proof, too. But, it's not gonna happen. Just like the survivor of incest by some luminous PO will never get proof. I envy the WTS incest survivor, in an of course pathetic manner.... (at least that person has others who believe them.... a website devoted to their causes... etc. )

  I'll NEVER forget a quote by larc, so long ago I cannot reference it or quote it with any accuracy, but it is an ice-shard in my veins: "My neighbor is a 32 degree mason. He is a nice person. He's been really nice to me and my family." At the time, I remember shaking and crying - I substituted the words "JW elder" for "mason" and wondered how many people had entrusted their children to WT lords who had subsequently abused them... never thinking for a second that such an atrocity could be imaginable....

  It's a disgusting exercise, looking into such dark, foul matters. When one is confronted with evidence which requires them to either admit reality or lie to themselves, however, they have to choose whether to go ahead and plunge forth into the muck. If they are able. Not many are able. Those who try are vilified. Bill Bowen is an example. Most of the time it's not worth the effort or sickening side effects. I don't blame anyone for bailing and trying to have a life.

  Please know, however, Seeker, that perhaps some of the speculations and inquiries about matters to which you speak in your question are sincere efforts to make sense of things that don't make sense by people who are desperate. (And yes, some are admittedly unbalanced.)

  This board is not the appropriate place to address such issues. Of this, I'm convinced. Alas, there are not many genuine or credible alternatives.

  While not trying to even remotely suggest that you need to engage in dialogues pertaining to weird conspiracy-theory UFO stuff or need to be convinced of their existence, if you could try and be tolerant, it would relieve me, and perhaps other 'seekers' who read threads such as this, of retraumatization when we read about how unbelieveable it all is... with the veiled implication that those who have no choice but to believe because they were THERE are contaminating annoyances......

  Uck. I hate the way this comes off. I'm posting it anyway.

  It's only water from a stranger's tear (Peter Gabriel)
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  5

  Was Jehovah originally a volcano?

  by Mindchild in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for a change of pace, i thought some of you good folks might enjoy reading a speculative article about the evolution of the modern jehovah.

  the link is at: http://www.earth360.com/his-jehovah-java.html.

  while the author of this report has some interesting thoughts on the matter, i still subscribe to julian janes theory as presented in his seminal book, "the origins of conciousness and the breakdown of the bicamerial mind," as being a more likely evolution of relgious belief.. remember not to blow your top when you read the article (snicker).

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  lauralisa

  Hi Mindchild:

  I've enjoyed reading your (too few imo) posts. You present ideas that are refreshingly off the curve and support them eloquently.

  I have Julien James' book (Bicameral Mind...) and it was the subject of focus in an independent studies course proferred by a visiting luminary that I was priviledged to attend in college, (yikes 20 years ago). What a trip...

  I'm still unable to grasp the idea that the universe was not designed. There is too much evidence, at least in that aspect, that there is/was a designer, aka god.

  What are your personal opinions regarding the existence of a creator, if any? Just curious.

  Thanks for your contributions,

  lauralisa

  It's only water from a stranger's tear (Peter Gabriel)
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  15

  Making sense of sex and the bible

  by Leander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the bible clearly states that fornicators will not inherit god's kingdom, but the question is "what is a fornicator"?

  if i remember correctly the word fornication is derived from the greek word "porneia".

  the problem is there are different defintions of that word porneia.

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  lauralisa

  Hi Leander:

  "think about how many people who got married simply because they couldn't go through life being celebate"

  That makes me think of the countless 16 and 17-year old jw's I watched getting married simply because they couldn't stand anything; they thought being able to have sex would make it all endurable.

  It's only water from a stranger's tear (Peter Gabriel)
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  76

  Years in v. Years Out

  by Billygoat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'd like to find out how many years collectively we have acquired in the wts.

  please list how many years you were/have been a jw.

  please also list how many years you have been out.

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  lauralisa

  in: 10 years
  out: eleven months, give or take a few days*
  I would go back, except for this pesky reasoning ability

  lauralisa

  *(I'm seven's secret twin)

  It's only water from a stranger's tear (Peter Gabriel)
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  8

  The Watchtower Ruins Children and Families

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i repeat this subject because i see it come up as a defense.

  of the organization ("do the math").

  it makes my blood boil!.

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  lauralisa

  Metatron,

  Your post is articulate and succinct, and so accurate...

  It is refreshing and healing to realize that there actually ARE people out there who can just say it like it is so well... helps me organize my thoughts and own internal struggles.... why is the phenomenon of global denial so endemic in this religion? I still have to fight the impulse to "go back there" even after a year of complete inactivity and more awareness than I can tolerate at times of just how completely screwed up the entire organization is from top to bottom.....

  Maybe it's like addiction.... I've not been addicted to drugs before but have known people who are in recovery. They speak about the "substance" they abuse providing them at first with this initial blast of euphoric wonderfulness, and each time they use the substance it's an attempt to get back to that first initial experience. But usually it doesn't work... then the hamster wheel behavior begins and they can't get out of the cycle.

  I wasn't raised a jw, came into it at age 31, and had no family or friends involved... but my initial experience when I started to study was such incredible relief and joy. I just believed in this dream world - was led to believe - that absolute love, peace, truth, knowledge, all those absolutes that some of us simply crave - were available HERE and NOW..... they were practiced and were daily experiences of those who were "worshipers of Jehovah". For years I believed I saw these things and people were actually capable of living this way (like the "new system" had already started.... yes, we had these pesky imperfections to deal with, but with enough determination - enough insertion of ingrained, BS platitudes - they could be, well, just ignored?). Then over the years I began to see that it was not only a charade, it was a blisteringly-wrong, even deliberately evil deception of a type and on a scale that is still difficult for me to grasp intellectually......

  But I still want to recapture that feeling of safety and security and hope because it was the greatest drug imaginable. Ick... thank you for having the insight and courage to just say it like it is.

  have a good one, lauralisa

  It's only water from a stranger's tear (Peter Gabriel)
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  7

  The lesson my child taught me today

  by Esmeralda in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i know that my child is well off.

  we're not rich, by any means.

  we're still in the post college, young years of marriage, just "starting out".

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  lauralisa

  Essie,

  it is an honor to read your posts... thank you.

  lauralisa

  It's only water from a stranger's tear (Peter Gabriel)
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  30

  worst site for any Convention

  by hillbilly in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what do you consider the worst venues holding conventions?.

  indoor?, outdoor?.

  my votes go to: #1- the hollywood (broward county)florida "sportatorium" why?

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  lauralisa

  closer to fine:

  add me to your "Vet" veteran list

  lauralisa

  It's only water from a stranger's tear (Peter Gabriel)
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  32

  May I have some comments, please?

  by Kent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i did get an interesting mail from "mommy" - and i think this might be interesting to dig into.. please, let me have some comments!.

  http://watchtower.observer.org/apps/pbcs.dll/artikkel?nocache=1&dato=20011015&kategori=news&lopenr=110150008&ref=ar.

  yakki da.

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  lauralisa

  Well, Kent,

  You asked (very politely!) for some comments... so far, you've gotten some pretty good comments, don't you think? And as far as I can tell, NO ONE is just reading them right from the paragraph.

  lauralisa

  It's only water from a stranger's tear (Peter Gabriel)
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  8

  'To Whom Do They Belong There's Much Uncertainty!

  by hillary_step in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it is not a new revelation to see the striking and overwhelming parallels between the wts, its modus operandi and the legalistic leanings of the rabbis of ancient israel.

  these interpreters of the law, developed rabbinical prisons enclosed by walls of complex rules and regulations by which they held power over their adherents.

  note how the wts explains their actions :the decisions of the rabbis quoted in the mishnah would affect the day-to-day lives of jews everywhere.

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  lauralisa

  up...

  It's only water from a stranger's tear (Peter Gabriel)