NewChapter

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Posts by NewChapter

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  546

  non believers what if your wrong ?

  by unstopableravens in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

  it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

  i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

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  NewChapter

  The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient

  I prefer the term forbearance over impotence

  1. Patient self-control; restraint and tolerance.
  2. The action of refraining from exercising a legal right, esp. enforcing the payment of a debt.

  Touch the ark of the covenant, get struck dead immediately. Build a golden calf, immediate death. Bury some treasure---quick death. Lie about profit for a field, immediate death sentence. Take a census? Immediate death for thousands innocent of the deed. Plague.

  Rape, murder, starvation, war, torture, oppression---self-control, restraint and tolerance.

  Falls flat for me!
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  452

  Faith... and Trust: The Same Things?

  by AGuest in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in a discussion with some other dear ones, the question was asked as to what such ones put their faith in.

  in response to one comment that"one can't function without faith," another disagreed, stating ones can, that "many do so every day... the ones who have trust" (in things like the sun rising in the east versus the west).

  that trust extended to "faith" based "on nature and the natural order of things.

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  NewChapter

  Read the account... and stop parroting what those who also don't have a clue have told you. STOP relying on the lies you've been told by such ones, men who do NOT know... because they do NOT possess the promised holy spirit... and go ask for just a TINY bit of that spirit FOR YOURSELF... so that NO ONE will have to tell you the truth about these things, including ME. Indeed, I wish ALL would simply go straight to the Source... because THEN what was prophesied will be FULFILLED... and MY work will be DONE:

  I think that people that have concluded that the church was built on Peter have relied on what they understand to be holy spirit. I think their interpretation is just as valid as yours. I don't think they are lacking in faith or heart condition, and I think they have decided what their truth is, and they realy don't need to be told by anyone what that is. I think if we ask them, they too will say they went to the source. And now they have their answers.

  Some non-atheists are always saying that individuals can come to different conclusions and still be in harmony with God. So why take issue with this? It seems that some people may disagree with you, and that's fine. Other people disagree with you, and they are accused of not going to the source. So where is the line? Is there a little room allowed for individuality of understanding, but only a little? How can you call anybody wrong? Why would you? They have faith in Jesus. Tec is always saying that differences, even vast differences, don't mean you aren't all getting your information from the same source. In fact, we've gone round and round with this. She says that perhaps their understanding, and HERS is not complete.

  The question is: Does their understanding become more complete the closer they agree with you, Aguest? It seems so. Or are you more like Tec and simply concluding that different people process the information they receive differently, and no one can call the other wrong? Or is your work to get people to come closer to agreement with you?
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  452

  Faith... and Trust: The Same Things?

  by AGuest in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in a discussion with some other dear ones, the question was asked as to what such ones put their faith in.

  in response to one comment that"one can't function without faith," another disagreed, stating ones can, that "many do so every day... the ones who have trust" (in things like the sun rising in the east versus the west).

  that trust extended to "faith" based "on nature and the natural order of things.

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  NewChapter

  What I like about Myelaine, is I think she offers some of the most coherent, well supported arguments on the board. I don't see her getting caught up in the mud slinging. I disagree with her vehemently, but she gets it from boths sides pretty strongly. She gets it from the non-beleivers and the believers. I don't think she has a tiny mind at all---acutally I think it is simply on a wrong path. To me, she seems to have thought things out carefully and she expresses herself well. I also don't think she has a tiny heart, because this is a thankless thing she does. Do I think she is misled? Yes, but I would. I'm an atheist. Do I think she has some valid points for disagreeing with some other believers? Yes, I think she has some very valid points. She expresses them well and supports them. Sometimes she strikes me as the one making sense, even though I disagree with her.

  I don't think she should have been told she had a tiny mind or heart. I think that was mean.
• 
  546

  non believers what if your wrong ?

  by unstopableravens in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

  it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

  i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

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  NewChapter

  Then you are admitting your god is impotent.

  Thanks, Cofty. It adds to my point. These arguments are an admission. The 'god of this system of things' is even allowed to mislead God's own people. That is quite impotent.

  (Sorry, not trying to hijack your point as merely someting to add to my argument, I just like how concise you are)
• 
  452

  Faith... and Trust: The Same Things?

  by AGuest in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in a discussion with some other dear ones, the question was asked as to what such ones put their faith in.

  in response to one comment that"one can't function without faith," another disagreed, stating ones can, that "many do so every day... the ones who have trust" (in things like the sun rising in the east versus the west).

  that trust extended to "faith" based "on nature and the natural order of things.

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  NewChapter

  I'm not concerned with Michelle's teachings. I disagree with her as much as I disagree with you.
• 
  452

  Faith... and Trust: The Same Things?

  by AGuest in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in a discussion with some other dear ones, the question was asked as to what such ones put their faith in.

  in response to one comment that"one can't function without faith," another disagreed, stating ones can, that "many do so every day... the ones who have trust" (in things like the sun rising in the east versus the west).

  that trust extended to "faith" based "on nature and the natural order of things.

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  NewChapter

  Aguest, I don't say that you must allow bullying. Yet there are ways to handle insult without getting so personal. I don't even think you need to turn the other cheek. I was being neutral. I didn't defend any attack on you, but pointed out that you get pretty personal yourself.

  I've used the illustration of the shooting a squirrel with an elephant gun with you before. I think you take much milder insults as an excuse to come at a person full force. Perhaps saying that will get me into trouble, I don't know. I'm not trying to cause trouble. But I am pointing out that using a smack as an excuse to go for the knives is not very balanced in my eyes.
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  452

  Faith... and Trust: The Same Things?

  by AGuest in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in a discussion with some other dear ones, the question was asked as to what such ones put their faith in.

  in response to one comment that"one can't function without faith," another disagreed, stating ones can, that "many do so every day... the ones who have trust" (in things like the sun rising in the east versus the west).

  that trust extended to "faith" based "on nature and the natural order of things.

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  NewChapter

  I realize you may not be as... well, mature... as some of us are, but we DO remember what the world was like pre-Internet.

  For two reasons, if you can wrap your tiny little mind... and even tinier heart around these truths:

  Because my Lord KNOWS... that folks like you... haughty, hard-hearted, hard-headed, and STIFF-necked "Israel"... make me tired sometimes.

  Sadly, you don't yet know what... or Who... love IS. Really, you should get a clue, first.

  May I respectfully say, that I completely understand that we should not get personal. I completely respect telling a poster to warn them back in line. I do. But please look at the above. I'm just pointing out that some are capable of dishing it out pretty good themselves. I'm not defending attacks, but just pointing out more personal attacks.
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  546

  non believers what if your wrong ?

  by unstopableravens in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

  it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

  i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

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  NewChapter

  Old medical books may too serve a lesson... of what not to do.

  Good point. The OT is a testament to what not to do and what gods not to follow.
• 
  546

  non believers what if your wrong ?

  by unstopableravens in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

  it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

  i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

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  NewChapter

  I must confess that I am NOT one of them.

  That's good to know. And it is kind of a good point too. When these things were written, it was a reflection of the culture, not a god. To call it the inerrant word of a god is to argue that a god was behind it. But it makes much more sense to just accept it was the culture, and most, not all, of humankind has moved past that. To argue that it is the word of a god is to say that your morals are higher than the god portrayed. I'm grateful for that, and hope that more people become more moral (by today's and even tomorrow's standards) than the god portrayed. A loving, all powerful, all wise god would not be a victim of a culture, nor would it be swayed by such. If it existed, it would say this is the way it should be, and YOU need to change, not my law. And it would be moral, and it would strike all of us as moral. And it would be right, and we would all know it. And this god would not allow itself to be misrepresented so badly.

  Arguments that culture was different falls flat when coming from a bible literalist. It's an admission that the culture created the god rather than the god that created the culture. It's an admission that it was made up. Yet somehow, this fact just doesn't penetrate.

  The arguments that this god allowed brutality in order to accomodate brutal humans falls flat too. Just who was supposed to be in charge? Just who was supposed to have the right answers? And it goes beyond accomodating, and into the law that demanded brutality. If this is a real god speaking, then you cannot also argue that this god is loving and wise. If it is just the writing of humans, then it is a study in a long ago culture. The tragedy is when there are those that insist we still live by the standards of a culture that should be left in the past.
• 
  546

  non believers what if your wrong ?

  by unstopableravens in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

  it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

  i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

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  NewChapter

  likewise many medical practices of centures ago are viewed as foolish, disgusting and barbaric ....

  I can't allow this to stand. Yes, what we did a century ago is barbaric by today's terms. In fact, most cultures were barbaric by today's terms. That's human. But literal bible believers are not attributing this barbarism to humans and culture, they are attributing it to the perfect law of a perfect god. It's not, of course, it is simply a reflection of the culture, as judged by today's standards. Not really a problem, because some of these cultures have passed (definitely not all---try to be a young girl going to school in Afganistan). We are not talking about cultures. We are talking about a god. This barbaric god does not get the 'human culture defense' benefit.

  You MUST suppress your own morals, humanity, and empathy to make this god okay. I thought it was about building those things up. But if you can read the OT without flinching, and then have the audacity to defend this law, then there is something being suppressed.