Posts by NewChapter

7

Sunday July 31 WatchTower article on disfellowshipping

by Malachi Elijah in

i am confused about the tactic of the sunday wt article.

it seems to be talking about staying loyal to jehovah when chased by enemies and then it turns it around to saying stay loyal to jehovah by accepting elder decisions on who to disfellowship.

the odd thing about it, is that david was chased in two different ways, by his son who wanted to usurp his throne.

NewChapter

they should make a video game called elijah.

OOOOO I think you're on to something! there could be a whole series:

NOAH!!! Be one of the few to hop onto an ark or DIE! Choose to be the character of an animal and fight other animals to be the chosen ones. Or choose to be human and fight other humans to be one of eight!

GOLDEN CALF: You're not sure of the rules. you've spent your entire life in a country that worships animals. Your leader has gone into the mountains. Is he dead? The second in command makes a golden calf. He is the father of ALL priests and the brother of the guy chatting with GOD in the mountains. You don't know that the guy in the mountain is writing a law against false idols--but you SHOULD! Or Should you? bow down and find out!

Ark of the Convenant: You are charged by your king to help transport the ark! You see it start to fall! You know the law says you don't have the DNA to touch the ark, but it's falling and no one else sees it! Your hand reflexively reaches out. DO YOU SAVE THE ARK? Touch it and see!

Sorry---bit of a hijack. The video game comment made me laugh.

10

just saw something that made me sick

by cptkirk in

was flipping through the channels and stopped on the history channel.

it was a program apparently discussing the "7 deadly sins" .

they get to sloth, and immediately goto pictures of starving,diseased,dying pictures of africans?

NewChapter

What unshackled said. It's apathy and not being concerned enough to do anything for those who suffer.

THAT SAID, before I was a witness I attended a bible study with a friend. The leader of that group said that poverty was a sin. So that mind set does exist, especially among the Healther Wealthers.

NC

11

Jehovah's Witnesses are a class A mind controlling organisation!

by TimothyT in

my dad shown me a very interesting article on wikipedia about an american psychiatrist who drew some very interesting conclusions on how to control people's minds.

see if they sound familiar!.

milieu control the control of information and communication.mystical manipulation the manipulation of experiences that appear spontaneous but in fact were planned and orchestrated.demand for purity the world is viewed as black and white and the members are constantly exhorted to conform to the ideology of the group and strive for perfection.confession sins, as defined by the group, are to be confessed either to a personal monitor or publicly to the group.sacred science the group's doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate truth, beyond all questioning or dispute.loading the language the group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways so that often the outside world does not understand.doctrine over person the member's personal experiences are subordinated to the sacred science and any contrary experiences must be denied or reinterpreted to fit the ideology of the group.dispensing of existence the group has the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/robert_jay_lifton.

NewChapter

WOW, I've never seen it laid out quite that way. It's like a sledgehammer.

98

JW directives you thought were downright stupid

by fallen_princess in

i remember one time when i was about 17 years old, i wanted to arrange a costume party for the young brothers in the congo around my age.

i suggested it to one of my friends and was told that the elders had advised against it because it could be construed as pagan and masks have their roots in demonism.

of course, i was never shown any biblical proof of this but just that response took the wind out of my sails and i decided to just not go through with it.

NewChapter

Stressing the importance of "all five meetings" then suddenly cancelling the Group Study

I never thought about that before! How DID the bookstudy, which was SO VITAL, just get dropped without starving the flock?

NC

47

Wife is on that yellow brick road to the WT.

by trailerfitter in

hi, this is my first post on this forum although i have been reading many posts on here.

i feel safe enough to ask your advice and become involved now......from what i have learned about this forum it is occupied by sensible people who have left the watchtower influences for one reason or another.

i am, for want of a better word, a none believer.

NewChapter

I remember a story I either read or heard at a convention. It was about a father that opposed his JW daughter. There was an important meeting--I don't know if it was a special talk or an assembly. Her father forbade her to go. She slipped out the window and went. When the father found out he supposedly did some reading. The girl showed up for the next meeting covered in bruises and smiling and showing them off. She explained her father had beat her for going to the meeting. They asked her why she was smiling then. She said that her father had read some about the religion, and beat her because she snuck out. He then told her, because he was impressed with what he had read, that if she ever missed a meeting he would beat her the same way. ISN'T THAT HEARTWARMING??

Anyway, a story like this is highly suspicious. However since the r&f are fed these types of stories and they swallow them whole, you can understand we aren't dealing with a normal mind set. Persecution will get you nowhere. I like what Outsmart says. It's easy to leave for meeting when things are unpleasant at home. But make her pay for every meeting with a sacrifice, make her abruptly end a pleasant situation, make her miss out on things, and that will work better. Every meeting will become an actual decision and not just a mindless routine.

NC

16

Are the children of a state the responsibility of the state?

by sabastious in

a few months back the newly appointed governor of wisconsin, scott walker, took a lot of heat for the monetary policies he put in place.

i remember hearing him make statements to the crowds regarding the future of the "children of wisconsin.

" he made a point to mention the children's future in regard to their debt that was feared as too big for the future to handle.. how would governor walker react to witness child policies if he was told what actually takes place in many congregations of jehovah's witnesses.

NewChapter

I don't know if that would fly in the US Sebastious. We have a huge anti-government, pro-christian movement here. Unless a governor wants to be viewed as an anti-christ, he probably won't get involved in the inner workings of a church unless the abuse is systematic. Abuse in the org is done by individuals acting outside the WT teachings--so--they wont' be storming any kingdom halls.

Fox News would manufacture outrage, the Bachmanns would hop up on the soapbox of opportunity and scream this proves that Obama is a Muslim socialist, and the ACLU will be concerned with slippery slope arguments.

Australia is very different from America---even the part where private citizens can actually direct and fund prosecutions.

Maybe some day, but certainly not today.

NC

98

JW directives you thought were downright stupid

by fallen_princess in

i remember one time when i was about 17 years old, i wanted to arrange a costume party for the young brothers in the congo around my age.

i suggested it to one of my friends and was told that the elders had advised against it because it could be construed as pagan and masks have their roots in demonism.

of course, i was never shown any biblical proof of this but just that response took the wind out of my sails and i decided to just not go through with it.

NewChapter

I went to a huge costume party given by JW's. Their rule was no cross dressing. Cuz you know . . . it could turn you gay.

15

Do JW's analyze people to determine how to get you to join?

by dgp in

when i was reading one of steven hassan's books, i learned that moonies analyze people's personalities and define them as doers, thinkers, and two other categories that escape me now.

mr. hassan says that people do not join cults; rather, they are recruited into them.

the moonies, for example, do analyze who you are and how best they can get you in.

NewChapter

And as far as analysis is concerned, seeing toys in the yard was simply collecting information for later analysis. It was on return that I had a better idea of how that person responds to information. I would cater that return accordingly. As I collected more data, I refined my approach. I feel bad about this now, but I was a true believer. I really wasn't in it for the hours. I often did extra research and prayed about my returns. I only now realize that many people just played the role. I took it very seriously. If they didn't like to read, I would return with tapes of older WT and Awakes. Yeah--I did that. If they seemed to watch a lot of TV---I knew if it was always on in the background---I would try to get them to watch the videos on the Bible--or even the dramas when they started coming out on video. Like I said, dangerous.

I also know of witnesses that got involved with personality typing through work. They read books and took seminars. Don't you think they used their skills in service? It just depends on the publisher. Some have amazing powers that they use for evil.

NC

15

Do JW's analyze people to determine how to get you to join?

by dgp in

when i was reading one of steven hassan's books, i learned that moonies analyze people's personalities and define them as doers, thinkers, and two other categories that escape me now.

mr. hassan says that people do not join cults; rather, they are recruited into them.

the moonies, for example, do analyze who you are and how best they can get you in.

NewChapter

No, they don't. They go to every door on the street and they give the exact same presentation at each one.

Now that just depends on the publisher. I never did this. If I saw a statue of Mary in the yard, I would bring up the Our Father and break it down line by line. If I saw toys, I would talk about children. I would carry older issues that addressed different groups of people. If the person was elderly, I would talk about how things used to be when they were young and ask them some of the (negative) ways the world has changed since then. If a young person answered, I'd talk about school and peer pressure. I did not formally define their "type" but I made many notes in my book. Later I would actually look those notes over and return with a point or literature that I thought would appeal to them.

In other words---I was dangerous. I have a couple of baptisms under my belt. I've turned over progressive studies. I planted many seeds. I'm so sorry.

NC

15

Marriage of convenience

by Nickolas in

just a few weeks back my wife and i attended the wedding ceremony of the child of a couple with which we associated in the past.

he and i worked together in the same industrial complex and shared a common interest in antique cars.

i liked the older british sports cars and he liked american steel.

NewChapter

Wow Nick, that marriage you just described sounds like absolute paradise! How I wish I could find someone secure enough to continue persuing their own interests and secure enough to let me persue mine. I don't view this as a marriage of convenience. I view it as 2 mature people crafting the marriage so that they get more of the benefits and less of the negatives. It certainly isn't stagnate. Think of all the things they have to talk about. I'm a person that needs a lot of time alone. I try to date, but the all consuming attitude of most men out there just suffocates me. I WANT them to do their interesting things---and leave me alone to write or stare at the wall. It's miserable dragging someone to a play when they hate that sort of thing.

I recently read an essay, and can't remember by whom, but it broke it down this way. It is unreasonable to think that one person can fill all of our needs. Expecting it is a recipe for failure, because the other person will never be able to do it. The demands can't be met. Mature people realize that and go off on their adventures with friends. The most interesting friends I have are those that are comfortable travelling without their husbands. They have fully formed personalities, they love their husbands, and they feel good that while they are gone, their husbands are doing thing they like.

I am too old to be consumed anymore. Perhaps in my 20's that was an attractive idea---which is good for children. But now in my 40's with no children at home, I want to do things that fulfill me. I pulled away from my last boyfriend because he seemed lost on his own. We did plenty together, but he did nothing alone. It was exhausting. I'll quote Alanis Morsette here: I'm not the doctor!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp-v9HNI968