Posts by NewChapter

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

NewChapter

Why are you asking me?

Because I wanted your opinion. Was that off limits?

Well, if I were to answer myself, I would go with the punishment. The bible is full of warnings of punishment, and Revelation pretty much carries that out. God is all about the punishment in any scenario. Jesus didn't contradict this. Knowing Christ, and knowing he never contradicted the father, then I'd have to go with punishment. Even Jesus went all nuts in the temple and doled out some punishment. So it is not out of line with his character and the pieces he showed us.

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

NewChapter

I must differ a bit from Paul (Psac... not paul, formerly saul) in my understanding here. The people who reject Him are not 'punished'

You are not differing a bit. Your conclusions are completely in conflict. In that case, either you are both wrong, or one of you is right. Which one is it?

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

NewChapter

double post

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

NewChapter

If our understandings are in conflict, then either we are both as incorrect as one another, or one of us is correct, and the other incorrect.

I will save this comment. I think that I am correct and you are incorrect. Your understanding of the spirit behind the ritual is incorrect. I passed in the WT, but just pointing out that it was not a big deal to me. I simply didn't delve into the reasons that some would partake and some did not partake, because it never made any sense to me anyway. Since I only partook because of social pressure, the times that I did, it was no big deal for me to not partake as a JW. In fact, it was quite comfortable and natural for me. So I was not 'refusing' because of the WT teachings---it had never been my gig anyway. And it wasn't Christ's either.

Who taught me that? Christ. I only need to look at his personality and teachings and even his style to see this clearly. Christ would never institute a cannabalistic ritual. He may have spoke of Manna from Heaven, but that was something everyone could understand quite readily. He was the Word. Partaking of him is following his word. Just like when he used slavery in parable---he would never actually have slaves. So he may have used manna as parable, but he never would have actually expected us to pretend we were eating and drinking his flesh and blood.

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

NewChapter

Stop, and in regards to Snare's comment. It takes a great deal of critical thinking, self reflection, and brutal honesty to break free of a cult. Once those things are activated, we didn't just look at our particular religion, but all of them, and then at the god concept itself. I did not leave the WT because of their picture of God, I left because I questioned the entire thing.

We OFTEN hear people say that we became atheists because the WT hurt us so badly. Simply not true. When I became an atheist, I did not feel hurt or angry. Now when I look back, I have some anger, simply because I see what a waste of time it all was. But that is through 20/20 lenses. It did not play a role in me becoming an atheist.

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

NewChapter

And what makes your understanding of Christ correct? (this is a question, so do not jump to the conclusion that I am throwing something in your face, please)

As well, you did not answer my question, but have gone off on this tangent.

Did you pass the bread and wine by because of these reasons you are stating above... or did you pass the bread and wine by because the WTS taught you to do so, and told you that it was right?

My understanding is just as correct as your understanding. I often passed on the bread and wine ritual in church. It never made sense to me, and seemed very foreign to the entire concept of Christianity. The times I did partake, it meant nothing to me. There was no connection to Christ in doing so. I fluctuated. Sometimes I just did it for the connection to others, but it was never anything that ever made sense to me. Or I just passed. It felt very unchristian.

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

NewChapter

Yes, they walked away because they did NOT understand what Jesus was saying about hiim being the "mana of God".

No, they did not walk away, because Jesus did not present it that way. That was added later. If you come to know Christ, you would know that he never would have taught such a thing. It was completely out of line with all other teachings. Manna from Heaven and the Word and all that fits, but taking it a step further and making it an actual cannibalistic, symbolic ritual is not what Christ was doing. He was using metaphor, and lying scribes came along and changed it, and people that don't look at the entire picture and what Christ was really about, follow them.

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

NewChapter

You are certainly entitled to believe and follow... or not... as you choose. I cannot agree, as I have been led to understand differently. Of course you are playing a parody, but my answer to anyone would be the same.

Now what makes you think this is parody? How do you know that I didn't reason exactly like this when I was a pre-dub Christian? Anyway---

Some of the bible was written by lying scribes. Jesus was the word, and he used metaphor. Sure, the disciples went on to preach, but that favored position was still maintained, because now they were the teachers. You see? The first step is to cull the herd, or at least give the perception that they did, by claiming that a truly repulsive teaching was introduced. It makes them look good, and like they stuck with the master even when what he said was disgusting. Only he never said it, because this is all about perception. Jesus would never have said such a thing. They took a metaphor and expanded on it, making them look particularly special. Now they wished to teach it and come from a place of authority. So they get their prestige, the dynamic is changed, they are the teachers, and people are following their teaching----while they can look ultra faithful by claiming that some willfully walked away, but not them!

It worked well. That's why one of your first questions was did I partake. You use that as a measuring stick, when Jesus said following his teachings was the measure. It was later that the stick was changed. It is still used today. Those that partake--those that don't. Those that partake accept Jesus, those that don't pass. Same reasoning the lying scribes used.

Those that are paying attention to the Word may choose to pass on ritualistic, symbolic cannibalism, because they KNOW that is not what Jesus would ask of them. People only need to look to Christ to sort it all out. Christ would not ask us to kill or hurt anyone, and he would not ask us to take part in cannibalistic rituals--even symbolically. Even as he would not ask us to kill---even symbolicaly.

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

NewChapter

Note that Peter did NOT say your fleash and blood give eternal life, He said You have the WORDS of eternal life.

Exactly. Jesus was THE WORD, and so taking of his flesh was symbolic to taking of his word. Jesus would never institute a ritual that mimicked cannabolism. The writers just pushed that point to its repulsive limit to make it seem that they were more faithful and in a covenant with him, while others that could not stomach such a teaching walked away. I don't think ever taught it that way. It came later.

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

NewChapter

John mentiones this at a different point in his gospel ( the synoptics leave it to the end with the last supper, John inserts it after the feeding of the multitudes) so we must ask ourselves why does John do that?

My theory is that the core group wanted to make it look at though they entered a special covenant with Christ, a covenant that most Jews would refuse to enter because of the appalling nature of the ritual. They had to choose something so distastful, that most would walk away, in order to give the perception of their favored position with Christ. That's why he would do that. You typical Jew was not going to sign on for it. It didn't happen, because it goes against what we know Christ to be.

Think about ancient Egypt. Some Egyptians DID put lamb's blood on their door posts, but for most Egyptians this would have been blashphemous so they didn't do it. The bible writers simply chose a ritual that would be so repulsive to the Jews that they would not take part in it, and so made themselves look chosen and in a covenant. The ritual never actually happened. That was written by lying scribes.