Isidore

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Posts by Isidore

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  34

  "Do not be called teachers"--Doesn't Jesus OUTLAW all organized religion?

  by humbled in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  jw's and other churches all set up housekeeping in different theological areas.

  some one person can't believe any more what their church is saying, gets a different "take" on god, and......starts trying to convince others to follow them and everything they teach.. nothing new about that.

  but why are so many of us blind to this scenario: we allow that some people get to contemplate other thoughts and others are not allowed.only some lead and everyone else must follow or be thrown out.

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  Isidore

  Stillthinking, logically speaking, can something come into being out of nothing without causality?
• 
  34

  "Do not be called teachers"--Doesn't Jesus OUTLAW all organized religion?

  by humbled in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  jw's and other churches all set up housekeeping in different theological areas.

  some one person can't believe any more what their church is saying, gets a different "take" on god, and......starts trying to convince others to follow them and everything they teach.. nothing new about that.

  but why are so many of us blind to this scenario: we allow that some people get to contemplate other thoughts and others are not allowed.only some lead and everyone else must follow or be thrown out.

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  Isidore

  Satanus, I think you may have misread what I am saying. I believe the doctrine of the Trinity. The WTBS misreprents what the teaching is by prsenting Modalism.
• 
  34

  "Do not be called teachers"--Doesn't Jesus OUTLAW all organized religion?

  by humbled in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  jw's and other churches all set up housekeeping in different theological areas.

  some one person can't believe any more what their church is saying, gets a different "take" on god, and......starts trying to convince others to follow them and everything they teach.. nothing new about that.

  but why are so many of us blind to this scenario: we allow that some people get to contemplate other thoughts and others are not allowed.only some lead and everyone else must follow or be thrown out.

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  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Isidore

  Humbled, below is what Strong's Concordance has to say about "Church-Ekklesia"

  Church = ekklesia
  1) a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly
  a. an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating
  b. the assembly of the Israelites
  c. any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously
  d. in a Christian sense
  1. an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
  2. a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order's sake
  3. those who anywhere, in a city, village, constitute such a company and are united into one body
  4. the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth
  5. the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven

  Most versions of scripture, even amongst Protestants, use "Church". So, while "congregation" might be a fine translation on some levels, it could be found wanting in others. So it is important to look at where and how the term is used in the NT.

  In the Gospels the term is used only twice. Both times in Matthew and both times by Christ Himself AND both times it is connected to the granting of authority to "Bind and Loose". (Mt 16:17-19) (Mt 18:15-18) This connection implies more than a simple "congregation" and FAR more than the "invisible church" idea of most protestants.

  Jesus grants authority to bind and loose to His Church. That Church (in Acts 15) acts upon this authority to settle a doctrinal question that had effect, not in a single "local" community, but in all the "Ekkleisa" - universally.
  So, based on this and looking at what St Paul says about the Ekklesia being the pillar and bulwark of Truth (1 Timothy 3:15), it would make sense that he is talking about a universal, visible and authoritative Ekklesia (Church) and not a loosely connected collection of "local communities" tied together in some "invisible church" that all share some shared loose belief in Christ.

  In addition, it's important to see how the successors to the Apostles understood this. This can be gleaned from the writings of the Early Church Fathers, many of whom knew and were ordained by the Apostles themselves. Clearly, it was/is a visible authoritative structure.
• 
  34

  "Do not be called teachers"--Doesn't Jesus OUTLAW all organized religion?

  by humbled in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  jw's and other churches all set up housekeeping in different theological areas.

  some one person can't believe any more what their church is saying, gets a different "take" on god, and......starts trying to convince others to follow them and everything they teach.. nothing new about that.

  but why are so many of us blind to this scenario: we allow that some people get to contemplate other thoughts and others are not allowed.only some lead and everyone else must follow or be thrown out.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  Isidore

  Crazyguy, I understand some of what you're saying, however, for 16 centuries there was only one church. Today, there are 40,000 break away denomominations. Can this be what Christ intended when he established only one?
• 
  34

  "Do not be called teachers"--Doesn't Jesus OUTLAW all organized religion?

  by humbled in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  jw's and other churches all set up housekeeping in different theological areas.

  some one person can't believe any more what their church is saying, gets a different "take" on god, and......starts trying to convince others to follow them and everything they teach.. nothing new about that.

  but why are so many of us blind to this scenario: we allow that some people get to contemplate other thoughts and others are not allowed.only some lead and everyone else must follow or be thrown out.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Isidore

  Logic and reason eliminates "many gods". There can only be one uncaused causer...
• 
  34

  "Do not be called teachers"--Doesn't Jesus OUTLAW all organized religion?

  by humbled in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  jw's and other churches all set up housekeeping in different theological areas.

  some one person can't believe any more what their church is saying, gets a different "take" on god, and......starts trying to convince others to follow them and everything they teach.. nothing new about that.

  but why are so many of us blind to this scenario: we allow that some people get to contemplate other thoughts and others are not allowed.only some lead and everyone else must follow or be thrown out.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Isidore

  Christ, if you believe in Him (I do), established a Church. He promised it would guided into all truth, never be destroyed, endowed it with His power to bind and loose and also enpowered it to speak on His behalf. In addition, He spoke in terms of "my way or the highway", not to be a tyrant, but because He made us, and He knows what's best for us.

  Christ did not start a "religion", He started a divine salvific instrument. When one examines the evidence, he either was a lunatic, a liar, or Lord. I myself have opted for the last.
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  40

  Subtle wording in today's study article (3/15/13 WT)

  by leaving_quietly in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  w13 3/15 p. 28 par.

  "first, we must proclaim that name to others, recognizing that only those who 'call on the name of jehovah will be saved.

  ' (rom.

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  Isidore

  A few thoughts.

  Nowhere do ANY on the earliest manuscripts of the NT contain "YHWH". None.

  The NWT is not a bible. It is a transliteration and frankly, a total corruption of sacred scripture. (Not to mention it, like most versions from the last two centuries is incomplete and missing 7 books.)

  Thw WTBS is incompent in regards to translating any of the biblical languages. Their credentials (or lack thereof) eliminates all credibility.
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  1

  2013 DC Recording

  by turtleturtle in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  after listening to the 2013 dc recording entitled "human apostates", i have this to say.

  this group of men (gb) have made themselves an enemy of logic and truth.

  their tactics and propaganda smack of christendom's techniques to keep membership.

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  Isidore

  The authority issue is a legitimate argument. It's just that the WTBS are not it....
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  50

  What is the most damning watchtower publication?

  by zound in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i want to purchase a couple of vintage watchtower publications to help in my helping jw's break free.

  some of the older ones are expensive or hard to come by - i know you can buy them on cd's but i'd like to own one or two of the "classics of propaganda"- some of the ones that speak for themselves as to the ridiculousness of this religion.. of course any magazine i pick up today speaks to me of the ridiculousness, but you need something much more hardcore for the jw's.. any recommendations?.

  "children" has some pretty good quotes in it..

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  Isidore

  While there are some great examples so far, to me, it's no contest. The Kingdom Interlinear. It shows that the NWT is so corrupted that it cannot even be called a bible.
• 
  24

  Book: Two Babylons - anyone read it ?

  by *lost* in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  .

  hi has anyone read this book.

  what did you think ?.

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  Isidore

  I have a copy sitting on my bookshelf. The scholarship is laughable. Even the most rabib anti-Catholics will not "use" it for their argumentation today.

  Interesting side note: copies of the book at one time were kept in KH literature counters.