Yep. My grandma conducted the meeting during the yellow Babylon book. Probably the best conductor that bookstudy ever had. She was smart, well read, and logical. Except for the fact of course that she was a JW. ha!
Posts by bafh
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17Sisters conducting meetings where there is a lack of brothers
by booker-t ini remember years ago when i was a little boy aroung 9 years old, our bookstudy conductor was in the hospital and at the last minute one of the elders asked my aunt to be the book study conductor.
this was the first time i have seen this happen.
my aunt did a very good job and the bookstudy acted as it was not something from outer space.
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39
why dont more elders leave?
by Crazyguy inyou would think that what they are exposed to more would wake up and leave, why not?
thoughts..
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bafh
Many people have pointed to the reason I think people stay - status. When you are discouraged from being educated, or pursuing your talent, or being ambitious - then the only way for a man to gain status that is normally obtained in those other ways is to gain a title: MS, Elder, CO, DO, Bethlite, Bethel Elder, etc....even aux pioneer, pioneer, special pioneer, missionary - all status titles. And of course, women have no status in the organization apart from men, so if a husband gains a status, the wife will benefit and want that position as well.
I think that if people were able to meet those needs for ego fulfillment in ordinary ways, we would see less abuse of the flock because then the MS, Elders, etc. would be men drawn out of a want to serve, and not to fill a personal need.
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26
Convention Hotel "list"- Free rooms for JW/WT "dignitaries"?
by Darth Fader The Sequel inin all my years of being a jw, one of the more annoying aspects to me was each year sitting through the service meeting review part about what was expected (see: demanded) behavior and policies that the rest of us rank and file were ordered to comply with to attend a district convention.
the minutia in this part and the over-reaching set of rules were enough to drive me into a lather of rage at the audacity of these people thinking they could and should control every single aspect of my attendance to this "free" and voluntary convention.
from what clothing i can wear on my trip to and from the convention city, to what clothing i can wear before and after each day of the convention, to what i should be doing after each day instead of eating dinner and enjoying some good times with good friends, to insisting on wearing a ridiculous name badge, to what i should eat for lunch and where i should eat lunch and what is the appropriate container to keep my lunch in, to .................. the list is endless!!!!!!!!
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bafh
It is likely that it is a mix of free rooms and prepaid rooms. So, in asking for the "donation" they were simply getting their money back including the taxes that were paid. Doesn't seem that out of line to me.
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28
Advice Needed
by HeyThere inso my situation is changing and i am trying to figure out the best way for me to handle this.
i am an unbaptized publisher married to a dub who was inactive when we met and when we married and during the course of our marriage, and just went back active a year and a half ago.
he is a full believing dub.
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bafh
If you start fading - slowly stop going to meetings and out in service less and less, you can over time avoid confrontation. If you have meetings with the elders, be appreciative, and agreeable and thank them for all of their work. If you want to avoid that, then when they ask to meet with you, just let them know that you did research and got your questions answered so everything is fine and you feel everything is resolved. Leave it at that and do not mention your doubts again. Just do a slow fade. The tricky part will be your husband. But technically, since you are not baptized, you cannot be an apostate since that only applies to people who have been baptized.
~ bafh
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43
The INTJ Personality Type, (and those close to it)
by done4good ini am compelled to write a bit about this at this late hour here in the us, because it is keeping me up.. the recent four year old thread on the briggs myers personality type test that was dug up, produced an interesting finding.
many here, (at least tested informally for), the intj personality type.
intjs also do not understand irrational behavior particularly well at all.. why does this matter?
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bafh
XNTP here - Tied Introvert/Extrovert. Although as I get older the more introverted I get.
I find the Myers-Briggs test useful because it helps me understand and anticipate how people process information and what their orientation is. It really helps me when dealing with people who are much different than I am. 1) it helps me stear clear of people who I just will not get a long with long term. 2) it helps me understand behavior that seems not to make sense to me. I can put myself in their place and see their view. I may not agree with it, but often I can understand it.
I find the online tests fairly accurate, especially, as someone else mentioned, the longer versions. I usually have someone take the one at similarminds.com
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End shunning or lose tax free status
by kneehighmiah inwhich would the watchtower choose if it came down to this in the united states or europe?
losing tax free status would mean losing millions of dollars.
ending shunning means people would leave by the boatloads.
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bafh
I've been wondering for a long time why the organization is not more forthright. And now I see this quote below. Explains everything. And explains why they probably never will be. They do not consider the congregation entitled to a comprehensive answer. Another reason why I will likely never return.
Theocratic Warfare Strategy = ***w07 2/1 p.6***
Every lie is an untruth, but not every untruth is a lie. Why not? A dictionary defines a lie as “an assertion of something known or believed by the speaker to be untrue with intent to deceive.” Yes, lying includes the intention to deceive someone. Hence, to speak an untruth unwittingly—such as giving someone incorrect facts or figures by mistake—is not the same as to tell a lie.
Moreover, we need to consider whether the person asking for information is entitled to a comprehensive answer.For instance, suppose Manfred had been asked the same questions by an executive of another company. Would Manfred have been obliged to tell him everything? Not really. Since that executive had no right to such information, Manfred would have had no obligation to provide it. Of course, even in this case, it would have been wrong for him to tell a lie.
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July 2014 WT cracks down on apostate debates and 'dance parties'
by EndofMysteries inin the july 2014 study wt article titled "jehovah's people "renouce unrighteousness".
par 9 and 10 .
9. how did foolish and ignorant debates affect the early christian congregation?.
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bafh
Remember that study article for December 2013? Warnings against those who speculate.
Hasn't WT been speculating for over 100 years? I agree, we need to crack down on that and reject unscriptural teachings - especially from the WT. Jesus did say no one would know the day or the hour except the Father. So, my question is: why have we spent the last century doing nothing but trying to guess a date? Seems so contradictory. How about we focus on developing our character, helping those who need it, and living productive lives??
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26
Why?
by SuperBoy inwhy does the wtbs do what it does?
if it's just to make money, they are easier ways.
online bingo websites for example.. what is the motivation to have millions of followers "voluntarily" giving of their time?
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bafh
I think the Russel and Rutherford, and many of the early leaders of the Bible Students were authentically seeking answers. When I have read the material, it rings true to me - as in this was what they really believed and there was more explaination of how they arrived at their thinking. I don't think they were snake oil salesmen, I think they were seekers, like the rest of the early religious movements of the day.
As the organization has grown, however, the predictions have failed, and the insiders (GB, Zoner Overseers, Given Ones,) have not displayed the humility to admit where they were wrong or to be transparent about how they arrive at their beliefs. They have had to keep up appearances until they figure it out. They have millions of people hungry for leadership, and someone to tell them they have a right to feel rightous (we are God's Chosen People) and to give them something to blame (Satan, this System of Things, Eve or Sin) for their lives if they don't like how their life is going.
There are a lot of true believers, but how can the leadership tell them, "yeah, sorry - we are wrong. we're not the chosen ones"? They can't. Can you imagine what shape that would leave people in if they admitted that they were just making shit up? The death toll would be high, and I suspect there would be some litigation and jail time. Plus, they have a huge money maker. I can only imagine that once you get in the groove, there is really no easy way to stop it.
All of this makes it even more amazing that people leave when you realize how much they are giving up.
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Why?
by SuperBoy inwhy does the wtbs do what it does?
if it's just to make money, they are easier ways.
online bingo websites for example.. what is the motivation to have millions of followers "voluntarily" giving of their time?
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bafh
I think it comes down to Maslow. Especially for people born in like me, you tie some of the higher level psychological needs people have into belonging to the organization, and it is very hard to leave it even if you want to. For others who are recruited, the organization meets their need for belonging, and especially for men who are discouraged from gaining status through outside acheivements like work, attaining status inside the organization by becoming an elder, CO, DO, etc is very alluring.
Once they get to Bethel, they have the adoration of people who don't even know them, and are given money, presents, influence, etc. If someone is a born-in, and dedicated their life to Bethel, even if they thought it was a scam, I could see them staying for the free ride and because making it on their own on the outside is difficult, and once they reach a certain age maybe impossible.
This is how I explain to myself some of the elders who are so awful. You have men, who are discouraged from gaining status in the usual way (work, education, acheivement) and you give them a title and a little power. This is their only way to meet that natural hunger for esteem. Couple that with their lack of education and training in pastoral care of people and you have....JW Elders who bully or sometimes abuse their flock just because they can and have been divinely appointed to do so.
Really it meets even the highest level of need, self actualization because that is where morality lives. And JWs are nothing if not moral. So, this is why disfellowshipping has the effect that it does, and also why leaving is so hard, and why staying has such pull. When we talk to "true believers" this is what we are talking to - their need for belonging, esteem, and self-actualization - not just their belief system. This is why it is so hard to get people out...and to leave ourselves if we try.
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Watchtower Inc. 100 Henry Street Links to MANY other Suspect Companies
by objectivetruth inthere have been a few posts in the past about watchtower inc. at 100 henry street, but i do not see the answer i'm hoping for.. can anyone confirm or provide details linking watchtower inc. to the wbts?
they are across the street, and one can easily assume that they are connected, but i don't see any definite links.. the closest i have come is this link: http://www.insideview.com/directory/watchtower-inc which lists watchtower.org as the website.
this could have been posted like this in error however.. according to 2014 sec filings watchtower inc. has a ceo named sholom drizin ( a man worth possibly 2 billion.).
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bafh
So, I'm confused. I've read on here about the lawsuits regarding child molestation and the GB distancing iteslf from the actions of Elders and congregations. But here is the GB having direct control over property.
How can they both distance themselves from operations and have direct control??? How does this play out legally??
