there's no way JWs can honestly claim "context" in this case. The greek word for disease is different from the greek word in Matthew. And nothing involving "mind" or "mental" is in the 1 Tim scripture, it's just implied within that greek synonym. It just seems like the GB has had this "weapon" all along but held off on using it til July 2011. That's what perplexes me.
DarioKehl
JoinedPosts by DarioKehl
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Curious: How Does 1 Tim 6:4 Appear in the Interlinear Greek (aka "purple bible")?
by DarioKehl inwe've all seen the line-by-line comparison of john 1:1 with the addition of "a god" when "was god" is visible in the left margin under "theos" in the infamous grimace/barney/grape crush purple bible book.
i'd check for myself, but unfortunately, i hastily rid my house of all things wt in a purging fit while beginning my fade.
and let me tell you, the fire was spectacular!
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I just can't do this anymore
by Awen indear friends:.
for years now after my exit from the wtbts i have searched for god.
as i have previously mentioned in other threads i looked into many other religions, including druidry, zen and tibetan buddhism (not really a religion), asatru, native american shamanism, kemetic orthodoxy, gnosticism and pandeism.
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DarioKehl
nice post, awen.
Losing your religion is a gut-wrenching experience. It feels like you're on a runaway train or a sailboat in a storm without a captain at the helm. All that vastness of "not knowing" is very intimidating. You have my empathy. You've read many "holy" books in your quest, but may I suggest a few others you should look into? They're very well-written, easy to understand and will turn even more pages in your awakening mind. It's never bad or wrong to examine all sides of an issue--and you've done well so far! Try these:
"The Black Hole War" by Leonard Susskind
"The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins
"The God Virus" by Darrel Ray
and view the following YouTube channels:
Thunderf00t
TheThinkingAtheist
darkmatter2525
I'm interested to hear your analyses of these! Have a good weekend.
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Curious: How Does 1 Tim 6:4 Appear in the Interlinear Greek (aka "purple bible")?
by DarioKehl inwe've all seen the line-by-line comparison of john 1:1 with the addition of "a god" when "was god" is visible in the left margin under "theos" in the infamous grimace/barney/grape crush purple bible book.
i'd check for myself, but unfortunately, i hastily rid my house of all things wt in a purging fit while beginning my fade.
and let me tell you, the fire was spectacular!
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DarioKehl
Anthony Morris---johnny on the spot! Thank you, sir, yoou rock! Wow... anyone see the difference? DANNNNG. Ok, this is deep!
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Do you sense that the Watchtower will implode?
by AK - Jeff insince leaving the organization 8 years ago, there have been more significant changes in the actual, physical activities of the organization than occurred in all the 40 plus years i was 'in'.
bethel closings.
bethel layoffs.
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DarioKehl
I remember in 1992 when the Proclaimers book was released, the JW growth was skyrocketting. Since the internet became available in most homes by 2000, we can see the beginnings of effects that forums such as this one have had as exJW could further increase their reach. People inside had anonymous ways to research and learn. However, look at how the internet has changed since 2000. YouTube is only 5-6 years old. Social networking has only been around for about 8 or 9 years. Now everyone has smart phones with wifi, secured and anonymous browsing. Even 5 or 6 years ago, it was tough for kids (or sleazy spouses) to cover their naughty browsing history on the family computer. With smart phones, wireless laptops and ipads all under $500, even the strictest JW households cannot monitor everything their curious family members investigate on the web. The major changes brought up in this thread only started snowballing recently. Since 2004, we've had:
major editing on the blood issue,
removal of studies from private homes,
TWO (2) changes of the understanding of "generation" (one in 2008, the other last year),
a new, stricter elder book,
a new TMS structure,
shortened meeting times on Sunday,
2 propaganda DVDs in the last year, QFR articles and WT articles focusing on the 3 main weaknesses that we apostates exploit: early JW history, "don't bug us, research yourself or ask a local elder" and the 587/607 debate,
privatizing the study articles in a separate edition of WT,
focusing on 5 new threats: atheistm, apostacy, DFed people, internet and college education (while false religion, sex, governments, bad association and the threat of persecution have been placed on the back burner).
I think this new media is driving these changes. It's having a devastating effect. They are having to respond to us for the first time! All we have to do is look at the 2011 service report in a few months. Subtract the number baptized from the difference of peak pubs in 2011-2010 and the TRUTH of what's happening will be apparent! In the meantime, I PREDICT the following issues will force more, dramatic changes:
Unthink's Austrailian law suit (will require a letter being read at all meetings much like the one after the Dateline incident and perhaps a global policy change on spiritual appointments)
Debit/Credit cards for contributions will result in more guilt-ridden articles about giving.
All their files being posted online (I bet they will make literature only available to regular meeting attendees or may even require minimum monthly service hours to "qualify" to get your KM and WT study copy)
2014. This is big. Too big to ignore. Many who are active, JW lemmings today will stop and realize something is definitely not right. The GB will begin publishing strange articles---even stranger than ones we've seen in the last year---to pave the road for escape when 2014 comes and goes and we're still here. 100 years is a significant milestone and I'd bet many many MANY JWs who are still in are just like I was 3 years ago: Still attending, still going in FS, still shunning, still avoiding apostates...but deeply depressed and struggling with cognitive dissonance because they know... but they're just gonna hold out til 2014. I bet many dubs have "bail dates" in mind.
If this newer, younger, stricter GB enforces the new elders manual as it's written and "demotes" brothers from spiritual appointments because they or their family members decide to attend college and starts nailing people under the "brazen" clause, we will see a massive, MASSIVE pushback from the R&F. MASSIVE. I promise...just watch!!!
Final Note: A few years ago (2007--2008), there was a WT study article that talked about the exodus of the jews from Egypt. I distinctly remember it because I was still clinging on to "da trooff" at the time and I talked about it with many friends because we all thought it was exciting. Anyone remember this??? The main point of the article was the strange, meandering detour Jehovah led the Israelites on in the wilderness on the way to the promised land. They even showed a map of the route. Then, the paragraph clearly stated that as God leads His Organization in these last days, they may be directed by holy spirit to instruct the flock in ways that may not appear to make much sense at the time. And whaddya know... sense that article, look at all the drastic changes in infrastructure, delegation, policy and doctrine that have taken place! They always give us a warning first to pave the way. COA insurance.
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Curious: How Does 1 Tim 6:4 Appear in the Interlinear Greek (aka "purple bible")?
by DarioKehl inwe've all seen the line-by-line comparison of john 1:1 with the addition of "a god" when "was god" is visible in the left margin under "theos" in the infamous grimace/barney/grape crush purple bible book.
i'd check for myself, but unfortunately, i hastily rid my house of all things wt in a purging fit while beginning my fade.
and let me tell you, the fire was spectacular!
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DarioKehl
We've all seen the line-by-line comparison of John 1:1 with the addition of "a god" when "was God" is visible in the left margin under "theos" in the infamous Grimace/Barney/Grape Crush Purple Bible book. I'd check for myself, but unfortunately, I hastily rid my house of all things WT in a purging fit while beginning my fade. And let me tell you, the fire was spectacular! Had I known I'd become an apostate later, "mentally diseased" about critical anaylisis and research, I would have never parted with those books. I could KICK MYSELF for doing that because I got rid of the best weapons in my arsenal--their own words. Sooooo.... I was wondering if the phrase "mentally diseased" appears under the Greek words in the left margin.
If not, how come this has never been an issue before? We've surely covered this scrpiture in past WT publications. How is it that the bOrg hasn't used this "gem" until 2011? If it's always been in the Bible (well...their bible), why haven't we seen them using "mentally diseased" as part of their regular vernacular since Rutherford's regime? If they have in the past, why is it creating such a stir now?
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What Was The BEST Thing About Being A Jehovah's Witness?
by minimus inthis thread could be a saver!.
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DarioKehl
Being able to procrastinate, excuse mediocrity and minimize others' achievements by finishing every sentence with: "the end will be here soon so it doesn't matter in the long run (whatever "it" is, no matter how large "it" is)."
EXAMPLES:
"I'd like to get married and have kids someday, but..."
"I wish I could go to college instead of window washing and pioneering, but..."
"Wow, Brother Rich Elder has spiritual blessings and material blessings, but..."
That mindset is a quick-fix. It's mental comfort food: cheap, delicious, readily available but lacking terribly in nutritional value. Only when you try something else do you realize how lousy a steady diet of it makes you feel. The ability to shovel all concerns into a corner and dismiss them produces laziness, low motivation and feeds "impossibility-think." Although comforting while inside, I never realized how it squelches opportunity and ambition. Sometimes I still wish I had that "easy button" but if I did, I'd slide back into a little shell of worthlessness.
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THEY came AH knocking again
by jam inthree months ago i spoke about a conversion i. had with a elder that came to my door.
i told him.
i walk with you people at one time.
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DarioKehl
Wow...
That's unusual. They're trained to flea "A-words" like you, but they persist? Normally they try to sniff out the teeniest clues of apostacy and give 'em the boot but they're gravitating toward you. Next time, invite them in and show them a list of WBTS contradictions from their own publications. If they keep returning, they are PROBABLY curious and want to hear what you have to say. Or they're pioneers who are desperate to top off their service hours for the month.
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Are YOU a Believer, Atheist, Agnostic, Active JW or WHAT?
by Greybeard insorry if this has been asked before but i would love to know the current ratio on this forum.. i'm a believer/christian former jw for 45 years... born in .
what are you now and what were you?.
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DarioKehl
Thanks, Greybeard and yes, we are all severely mentally abused. People who come to their senses and realize JWs are wrong become outcasts within a group of outcasts. I'm amazed at the evolution of government and religion. When a loophole exists, religion moves in and exploits it to the maximum. If WBTS weren't a church/religion, it would be criminally liable for so many things. Tearing up families is one that's all-too familiar for many of us but is too abstract to ever be dealt with legally. Amazing. It adapted to fill a niche in the environment and now it's optimally suited to be a dominant force.
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Ponzi scheme - 75% of investors were Dubs....
by RagingBull inhttp://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/sep/25/alleged-ponzi-scheme-leaves-lives-shattered/?prefetch=1.
funny how many of the dubs didn't want their names mentioned in the article.
lol.
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DarioKehl
OMG....
That poor missionary brother who lost $200K+ may still be screwed in claw-back legislation! I'm sure the first and foremost thought on everyone's mind, though, is this: "We can't bring reproach on Jehovah's name!!!"
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Are YOU a Believer, Atheist, Agnostic, Active JW or WHAT?
by Greybeard insorry if this has been asked before but i would love to know the current ratio on this forum.. i'm a believer/christian former jw for 45 years... born in .
what are you now and what were you?.
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DarioKehl
I'm an inactive born-in skeptic since my teens. At age 8, I remember still believing in jah because I had no exposure to anything else. Everything else was "demonized." But I remember that summer, I actually started hating him. We were going through the OT in the TMS and my mom dutifully enforced studying for Thursday nite meetings during the summer months. I also had a talk #2 bible reading and vividly remember my disgust in god and his childlike behavior when dealing with humans on earth. That summer, I also learned that I'd be held back a year in school while my younger brother was inducted into the accelerated program. One Wednesday in July while helping my mom do grocery shopping, all the anger and disgust flooded over me. I felt like crying, cold sweat...I wanted to break something. I believed god was very real, but he was also a colossal asshole--no denying it anymore. He didn't give a shit about me or my parents or the JWs or anyone else! Obviously! He treated the Israelites like shit and I had to read about it aloud to a room full of people in the B school! In the parking lot of that grocery store, I said the first of many "I hate you" prayers addressed to Jehovah by name. I knew as I started the prayer that I was taking a bold step--a point of no return. I knew what "sinning against the spirit" was and meant. I knew, as I began that prayer, that I would join adam, eve and judas in the infinite dirt nap--i knew it! I felt like eve as the rind of that magical fruit snapped under her teeth for the very first time. But after that prayer was over, I felt amazing. It felt great. Sure he could kill me and keep me dead forever, but he could never take away what I said. God could never undo the fact that his example in his own written record made an 8-year old decide not to worship him, not love him and never respect his sovereignty. I said what I felt I had to say and dammit, nothing jah can do will erase it from the eternal timeline. I said a prayer and told him what was up. I died that day, but I also knew his "issue" of "universal sovereignty" will never be legit. After that, it was a form of therapy for me lol! Hate prayers! A sweet, mild, aryan looking, son-of-an-elder/pioneer saying HATE prayers LOL! I mean, I would literally tell him off for 5-10 minutes at a time and I did that for several months.
After reaching JR high, hormones and girls distracted me enough that I abandoned the hate and anger. (By 7th grade, I also started noticing other guys in my class and knew that I had to keep this secret bottled up for fear of displeasing JWs and my intolerant "worldly" friends. Whole-NUTHER thread lol...) Once in high school, I must have "turned smart" some how because I was in all the AP/Honors classes and learned critical thinking skills for the first time. As a result, tremendous cognitive dissonance caused a serious bout of panic attacks and anxiety as I approached graduation. I knew I didn't have to hate or blame an asshole god anymore. I knew that what I and all my friends were forced to believe in could easily be explained away. Another scary thing was coming to terms with our own mortality--finally having to stare that fact in the face really tore my nerves up. I also knew that if I ever made any of my secrets known, I'd lose all friends and my family. So, I acted. I delayed college to pioneer. I became and MS (even though I told them I didn't want the assignment and they gave it to me anyway).
Through high school, my parents and I had an improved relationship once they saw my excel in school (finally lol). Having gone through the panic/anxiety, I bonded closely with my mom because she suffered with it for years. Once I was a late teen, formed these bonds and earned respect my parents, I was able to slide little bits of info into bible studies or everyday chat and they never flipped out. For instance, I told my parents numerous times that "If I had grown up worldly, I wouldn't have a religion at all." And when we do get together, my mom is very supportive and understanding when I bring up doubts--in fact, both of my parents know that doubt was the source of my anxiety as a teen. Of course, mom would always revert to the old "Well, even if it's not true... it's still the only thing we have! I wouldn't live any other way!" It wasn't until recently in my early 30's that I started researching things online. I avoided "apostate" web sites like the plague (BTW: THANK YOU, MR. FEARON, FOR MAKING ME FEEL ICKY AND DIRTY AND CAUSING ME TO RUN BACK INTO THE ARMS OF WBTS FOR COMFORT...a nice 2 year diversion that could have been avoided had I come across this forum first). And even after graduating college, I had not yet learned critical thinking skills. I knew how to ananlyze and interpret data and annotate essays, but I'd never used those tools on my own religion. I discovered all the logical fallacies in my brief 2-year "reverse fade." Before, my natural instinct was to NEVER EVER question the WBTS. I always "took their word for it" even when things made no sense. I reasoned that "Well, they've got teams of well-read, educated people who cross-check everything they write...apostates LIE...if God's real, I guess this spirit would be here so it'll all work out..." After fade #1, all these fallacies and warning signs were popping off the pages at me. I noticed the "pure language" (cult vocabulary) spilling out of people's mouths more than ever before--even in normal everyday conversation. I just noticed how controlled everything was. Once "overlap" was published as NOO LITE and the laughable "science" brochures were released last year at the DC, I fled and fade #2 is now a permanent reality. Once I realized that critical thinking debunks ALL religion, I was able to dump a lot of guilt because it's an all-inclusive abandonment. It's easier for me to say "I am an agnostic/atheist" than "I am an ex-JW." On Dawkin's scale, I'm a 6 which means that right now, I'm certain there is no god as described by any current theology, but I'd change my mind of observable, repeatable evidence to the contrary ever emerges. Now, I just have to muster up the courage to tell my family. It will kill them. I'm soooo sick of being the one family member who has all the issues. I feel like I've discovered some great, amazing new treasure and I can't use it to its full potential yet! I would love to share it with people too, but then I'd officially be a "brazen, mentally diseased apostate." I'm free mentally, but still in emotional and social bondage; stuck in a constant stage act, having to "get into character" around my family and JW friends while enjoying my free mindset on my own in total secrecy. I haven't been to a meeting in 2 yrs, but I'll make my rounds at conventions and assemblies because I do have many dear friends I still love and admire. And I do it to make my parents think I'm still active. Living this lie is killing me inside. I just want to impossible things: 1) to be able to tell my family everything, openly and honestly and 2) to keep their love and respect which would surpass any shunning requirement.