Posts by Lefty

18

"Hypocrite Organization"

by biblexaminer in

jw
friends

here's a good one.. .

hypocrite organization "disassociates" from the un.

they will come to your door soon, and they will bear in hand a magazine that warns you about "'religious hypocrisy".

Lefty

Biblexaminer,

Hypocrite Organization "Disassociates" from the UN

With regards to the above, you said:

Yes, I wrote it, and it took me 20 hrs of careful thought.

Of course you realize that a hypocrite by definition is a person that pretends. Is it not true that you regularly go to the meetings at the Kingdom Hall ... pretending to be a loyal JW? Yes you do, by your own admission as a matter of fact. Do you plan to tell the press that you yourself are a hypocrite? I wonder what the press would think of you if they knew the truth about you. Do you have the courage to tell them just how much of a pretender (hypocrite) that you really are?-lefty

99

YK on WT UN NGO STATUS

by You Know in

several posters have asked what i thought of the.

revelations about the wt being associated with the un.

as an ngo so i thought i might make a brief comment on.

Lefty

You Know,

Hello my friend.

It seems for the most part that the whole affair is a
tempest in a teapot. I say this, not because it is not
a serious mis-step on the part of the Society, but
because it is not widely known by the majority of
Jehovah’s Witnesses.

I’m sorry that you see the NGO thing as “a serious mis-step on the part of the Society”. I, personally, find no fault whatsoever with the actions of the WTS … either with being an NGO or withdrawing as such once it became obvious (due to exposure by apostate enemies) that it would no longer be useful to remain “associated” as an NGO. Looks like the apostates do at times hurt the Society’s cause. The apostates, via their enquiry’s with the NGO officials, were in the process of traitoriously forcing the UN to focus in on the Society’s being listed as an NGO while at the same time obviously never intending to abide by the requirements of being such an “associate”.

As for what may have motivated the brothers at the
Watchtower get involved with the UN in the first place
as an officially recognized Non-Governmental
Organization, it seems to me that the Society is
suffering from the bane of all civilization; namely,
too many lawyers.

I, personally, would much rather give the Brothers who oversee the worldwide organization the benefit of the doubt. The Society has the right and responsibility to use strategy in the best interests of the preaching work, and looking after the interests of true worship throughout the earth.

Ironically, by trying to protect the
Society’s interests, in that human sort of way, they
have inadvertently placed a stumbling block before
their own brothers.

Yes, there very well may be some (and apparently already has been) that are stumbled due to this recent revelation. However, in the finality each JW must decide which side they are going to be on, and there are only TWO opposing sides, … either the side of those who spearhead the disciple-making work, namely the FDS, or the side of "the world". (John 15:19) Those who spearhead the work are “holy” by the Bible’s definition. Yes such holy ones aren’t perfect, but this certainly isn’t a case of their having been unwise, nor unholy. It is regretable that some will be made to stumble over this. These, undoubtedly, are those who weren’t well founded in the truth as of yet, either that or they were not of our sort to begin with. Also we shouldn’t forget, Jesus said that causes for stumbling is unavoidable. Those who truly were his disciples will eventually return to the flock, the congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Where else do such true disciples have to go?

Obviously they have recognized the
inadvisability of being connected with the UN, which
is why they have evidently withdrawn from association.

I respectfully disagree with your deduction, as a matter of fact fervently so. As I’ve already suggested: The Society has the right and responsibility to use strategy in the best interests of the preaching work, and looking after the interests of true worship throughout the earth. They … even as the nations do without being faulted … are completely justified in the use of clandestine maneuvers when it comes to spiritual warfare. There are several examples of God’s people having engaged in such procedures throughout the Scriptures. If any among us tend to be offended by the use of such strategy, is it not THOSE ones that need to study their Bibles and become mature Christians? I would answer, yes it is.

Just a few thoughts that I felt you might want to consider. I know that you're mature enough to handle them, as based upon all the past posts that I've read which you've authored.—lefty.

20

wild beast

by erik in

jw
friends

does anyone have another view or interpretation of the 7 headed 10 horned wild beast and the one that gives it power that beast having one head and 2 horns.

i believe current wt informs the 7 headed wild beast to be the un and the beast that gives it power the 2 honed wild beast to be the american-anglo power.

please give any other alternative views to this prophecy.

Lefty

JanH,

Okay, well let's see just how good you are at interpretation of the Book that you consider uninspired. How about if I provide you with a rather simple challenge? As you might have noticed up above, I made the following assertion:

For solid reasons, the 10 horns should be pictured as all being on top of only one head of ... the beast out of the sea. That particular head would numerically, or sequentially, be considered to be the 7th.

Do you agree with what I said there? or disagree? And if by chance you DO happen to agree, upon what basis? ... how can you scripturally prove that the 10 horns all belong upon one head instead of their being distributed amongst the entire complement of heads, such as is wrongly represented in the case of the image I posted above … which, BTW, is also the way that the WTS generally has them pictured? As for myself, I find it a little difficult to comprehend how that interpreters can overlook the obvious clues that unmistakably determine the placement of the 10 horns.--lefty.

20

wild beast

by erik in

jw
friends

does anyone have another view or interpretation of the 7 headed 10 horned wild beast and the one that gives it power that beast having one head and 2 horns.

i believe current wt informs the 7 headed wild beast to be the un and the beast that gives it power the 2 honed wild beast to be the american-anglo power.

please give any other alternative views to this prophecy.

Lefty

JanH,

Having revealed the following about yourself, on your personal site, how is it that you feel that you are qualified to interpret the Bible, a book that you obviously don't even believe in ... particularly in regards to the Revelation account regarding what the 7-headed 10-horned beast represents?--lefty.

I'm not religious. I don't believe in any ‘supernatural agents’ -- gods or God -- and I don't particularly disbelieve it either.

20

wild beast

by erik in

jw
friends

does anyone have another view or interpretation of the 7 headed 10 horned wild beast and the one that gives it power that beast having one head and 2 horns.

i believe current wt informs the 7 headed wild beast to be the un and the beast that gives it power the 2 honed wild beast to be the american-anglo power.

please give any other alternative views to this prophecy.

Lefty

erik,

I am posting this thinking that you would likely enjoy seeing the three beast’s as envisioned through the eyes of another artist. Although I personally don’t agree with the way she (artist Pat Marvenko Smith) has depicted the arrangement of the horns on the dragon and the beast out of the sea, it is interesting just the same to consider how others have interpreted, or better said, misinterpreted the Revelation account in this area. For solid reasons, the 10 horns should be pictured as all being on top of only one head of both the dragon and the beast out of the sea. That particular head would numerically, or sequentially, be considered to be the 7th. Of course the same would be true of the image of the beast out of the sea, the scarlet-colored beast of chapter 17 … all 10 of its horns are on the 7th head too.—lefty.

More images: http://www.revelationillustrated.com/shop/

Art used by permission by Pat Marvenko Smith, copyright 1992.
Click here to visit her "Revelation Illustrated" site: http://www.revelationillustrated.com/

64

A few things I don't understand about the bible

by Leander in

jw
friends

there have always been things about the bible that never really made much sense to me.

not to say that i disagree with whats in the bible but i have wondered about the fairness of certain things.. 1. for example i've always even as a child thought that it was odd that so many people would die during armageddon.

now as an adult and i understand people better than i did years ago i really do feel puzzled about the fact that according to the scriptures the majority of mankind will perish.

Lefty

ianao,

for a person who is convinced that the Bible is the word of God, such as you apparently are, there is no amount of "evidence" that I or anyone else could offer that would prove anything to you.

that's because there is no "evidence" that you have to offer which proves that the Bible is NOT the word of God. yes, it's "evidence" to you, but that's because your heart is not pure. it is the same way with you as it has always been with Satan, because his heart wasn't right he failed to see God's righteousness in placing certain restrictions upon Adam and Eve. Just because Satan disagreed didn't prove that he was right. it merely proved that he allowed his heart to become corrupt.-lefty.

ps> I have got to run to the grocery store right now, I may be able to return to this thread later. Bye for now.

64

A few things I don't understand about the bible

by Leander in

jw
friends

there have always been things about the bible that never really made much sense to me.

not to say that i disagree with whats in the bible but i have wondered about the fairness of certain things.. 1. for example i've always even as a child thought that it was odd that so many people would die during armageddon.

now as an adult and i understand people better than i did years ago i really do feel puzzled about the fact that according to the scriptures the majority of mankind will perish.

Lefty

pettygrudger,

Where/when did this "new light" come into play? I've certainly never heard this before.

sorry to be so slow at replying. you should expect much "new light" to be forthcoming from the WTS in the not-too-distant future. so hang tight!-lefty

willy_think,

kind of catholic of you

actually I'm a loyal JW, thank you.-lefty

64

A few things I don't understand about the bible

by Leander in

jw
friends

there have always been things about the bible that never really made much sense to me.

not to say that i disagree with whats in the bible but i have wondered about the fairness of certain things.. 1. for example i've always even as a child thought that it was odd that so many people would die during armageddon.

now as an adult and i understand people better than i did years ago i really do feel puzzled about the fact that according to the scriptures the majority of mankind will perish.

Lefty

JanH,

No, it doesn't. There is nothing even suggesting such an idea there. If you want to defend this assertion, come up with the evidence.

for a person who is convinced that the Bible is just so much waste paper, such as you apparently do, there is no amount of "evidence" that I or anyone else could offer that would prove anything to you.

you see, the Bible was written in such a way that its mysteries can't be unraveled by those whose hearts are not truly right. an atheist, such as you are, is certainly of the category of those whose hearts aren't pure ... particularly so in view of your past religious experience. nuff said.-lefty

64

A few things I don't understand about the bible

by Leander in

jw
friends

there have always been things about the bible that never really made much sense to me.

not to say that i disagree with whats in the bible but i have wondered about the fairness of certain things.. 1. for example i've always even as a child thought that it was odd that so many people would die during armageddon.

now as an adult and i understand people better than i did years ago i really do feel puzzled about the fact that according to the scriptures the majority of mankind will perish.

Lefty

Leander,

1. … It just seems kind of unfair that those people should die simply because they really don't know any better. And when you think about it that covers quite a few people.

there’s a simple and reasonable answer to the question you pose. the fact is that by the time armageddon arrives the entire population of the earth will have been separated into only two camps. in one camp will be those who will have given in to the pressure to accept the mark of the wild beast (by acknowledging that it’s the HIGHEST authority, and thereby committing idolatry). in the other camp will be those who refuse to give the wild beast such “worship” (therefore refusing to commit such idolatry). those who DO commit idolatry (the great majority of mankind) thus place themselves in the precarious position of being fit to be removed off the earth at armageddon. it will be their own fault, because it will have been by their own choice that they accepted the “mark”. so, as it will turn out, God will have not removed people indiscriminately. each person will have been given the choice of what he or she chose to obey, either the wild beast or the God of the Bible. those who choose to go with the God of the Bible will be preserved thru the end of the present system. those who make the mistake of giving the wild beast the respect that only belongs to God will have to pay for it with their lives. this doesn’t mean of course that these ones won’t stand a chance of being resurrected. the question is, however, How many years of life will they have missed out on due to their foolishness … since they too could have survived armageddon even as others will have done. will it be 100, 200, 300, 400… or even more years into the millennium before they too are raised from the dead? what a price to have paid for having worshipped the wrong thing, at such a judgmental time in mankind’s history! what a price to pay when considered from the standpoint that, given the time they lived in, they too could have been among those privileged with never EVER having had to taste death as all mankind had had to do up until that time. what a unique opportunity there will be for people who live in that day, although the times will be tremendously rough to endure. and indications are that that time isn’t likely so far down into the future.

3. Another thing I'm having problems understanding is the issue of God's servants being considered blood guilty if they don't preach. …. I'm very confused as to why we would be threatened with death if we don't preach. Its like we're being held responsible for the lives of other humans. Maybe I'm misunderstanding that command but I feel that it’s not my fault that the world is in the shape that it’s in, I'm a victim in this system like everyone is. And then to have the additional burden of warning others or else seems to be kind of harsh. I don't know maybe I have the wrong view on that one, afterall I would want someone to tell me how to get life if I did'nt already know about it.

Christians are responsible for the lives of other fellow humans to the degree of their knowledge that could help others with what they need to know. this is in keeping with the law that we are to love our neighbors as ourselves. if it is true, and it is, that it’s only by having an accurate knowledge of the Bible that people (for the most part) will be able to survive armageddon, and we were to refuse to help people gain that knowledge, then we would be demonstrating that we don’t intend to love our fellowman in compliance with Jesus’ command. so we are obliged to minister (preach) to the world, that is, if we really do love our fellowman. is it not only reasonable that God will eventually allow JUST those who truly love their neighbor to live forever in his infinitely huge universe? surely the answer to that question is obvious!

I've often questioned whether or not the bible is just fiction as well. The one thing that totally prevents me from throwing it all away is prophecy. I can't explain why things that were written so long ago are coming true right now. If there was a hole in the credibility of prophecies then I'd discard everything I ever learned from the bible.

with regards to prophecy, there’s only a very few things that I can say which I see happening so far. one of those has to do with the march of world rulerships. (notice that I didn’t say “world powers”, the reason being that the “seven kings” rule the world of their day as opposed to merely being “dominant” world powers.) both the 2nd and 7th chapters of Daniel predicted that after Rome’s rule of the earth had passed that jurisdiction of the earth would come into the hands of an indefinite number of sovereignties. and this is PRECISELY what one sees having happened in view of the present world scene. thus, the legs of Iron DID in fact give way to the feet of Iron and Clay … the many governments that control the entire earth today (Daniel 2). comparatively, the 4th beast of Daniel 7 DID develop 10 horns that inherited the power that Rome had possessed. just one example of fulfilled prophecy. i will humbly admit though that there has been a misunderstanding by the WTS about Jesus’ prophecy of Matthew 24:7 regarding its having already been fulfilled, because it hasn’t undergone fulfillment as yet.-lefty

9

UN NGO...? for hawkaw

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

hi, hawkaw.

i have a question for you.

in all your discussions with the uns ngo chief, was there any talk about membership fees or dues required from ngos?

Lefty

:but providing funding by way of membership fees or dues is an additional layer of association through support, financial support.

i don't think that would necessarily be true. witnesses who are members of labor unions pay membership dues (for the benefits they receive), but even so do not consider themselves to be rendering SUPPORT to their union.-lefty