Posts by Liberty

9

Closer to perfection

by LtCmd.Lore in

jw
friends

the watchtower uses this concept a lot.

the idea that humans are somehow becoming more and more imperfect as the decades go by.. they use this to justify the fact that ged required incest of adam and eve's children, and noahs children.

because, i quote: "with that information, from where would you say that cain got his wife?

Like all of the Watch Tower Society's extra-biblical speculation this too is utter nonsense, or as others here have observed B.S.. Such speculations are an attempt to make ridiculous myths/folktales seem "logical". A straight unassisted reading of the Bible without having preconcieved apologetics in mind will reveal a simple collection of tall-tales which are as obviously untrue/nonliteral as any other religion's/culture's folklore. The Watch Tower Society's speculations on the Bible are akin to trying to make a literal story out of Jack and the Beanstock by explaing that ancient bean plants were much larger and could be climbed to observe antigravity castles in the clouds.

One obvious example is the Cain story from early Genesis. If Cain and his most intimate family were the only people in the world why did God give him a mark so people would not kill him for his crimes against Able? If Adam, Eve, and Cain's brothers and sisters are the earth's only inhabitants, then surely it is easier for God to just tell them not to kill him without some mark to interpret and even if there were further removed nieces and nephews how would they know how to interpret such a mark anyway? It is clear that such a mark was intended for far-flung strangers since Cain was punished by becoming a vagabond, how a stranger would know what the mark meant or how they would hear of the crime we are never told. It seems the teller of this tale had every expectation that there were other people scattered about the world besides Adam, Eve, and their family and hence why it is so easy for Cain to find a wive in his vagabond travals and eventually finds enough people to found a city. Founding a city, by the way, is the exact opposit of being a vagabond so God's punishment/prophecy is easily and inexplicably thwarted.

One last clue that this story is complete nonsense is the fact that God throughout the rest of the Bible is so forceful in punishing murder (and other lesser crimes) with death and yet Cain gets away with just a mark. Complete nonsense.

Other quick examples come to mind, especially the 70 + year old Sarah being so desirable for an Egyptian king's harem and then having the story repeated again when she is 90+ years old with another king. How desirable could she be at 70 or 90? Especially since she died of old age around 120+ years old so saying she aged at a slower rate doesn't make a good explaination since even subtracting 30 years from her real age still makes her 40 and 60 and no matter how beautiful she was how she could she possibly compare with girls 15 to 25 which would be easily available to a king? It is also explained that she was so aged and barren as to make a miracle from the birth of her son.

The treatment of Hagar and Ishmael by the wealthy Abraham also makes no sense because they are exiled into the desert with only a flask of water and a loaf of bread when Abraham could have afforded to send his son out with flocks and servants and plenty of food. Death was not God's plan for Ishmael since He provided another miracle to save them so why not just equip your son with a tiny portion of your wealth and send him on his way?

54

Anyone watched the film 'Sicko'?

by katiekitten in

jw
friends

i watched this film last night, and it made me really really grateful that we have free health care in the uk.

i know we complain about the state of the nhs, but the bottom line is if there is ever anything wrong with me my first thought will not be 'does my insurance cover this' or 'can i afford this'.. there was one part of the film where michael moore takes some people to cuba to get free health care and one woman picks up inhalers for 5 cents a piece, that are costing her $120 in the us.

she just breaks down and crys at the disparity of the cost.. it was also telling to see the insurance companies employ people specifically to try and find ways to deny claims or to void policies where a claim has been made.

Liberty

For those of you who think I am some sort of "neo-con" schill, please realize I am a libertarian and despise being controlled by the "left's" or the "right's" nanny state plans and hate Fox News and it's Christian Right pandering. Communalism is not just about Marxist-based Communism, communalism is as old as the first tribal shamen who performed magic tricks in order to not do any work and to control other members of the tribe by tauting altruism because the unseen spirits demand it and, of course, only the religious leader and his chosen bullies are smart enough to know how to interpret these messages.

How can the U.S. perpetuate a paranoia about communalism when we are steeped waist deep in it? Most Americans love communalism. Prohibition was communalism as are, anti-porn laws, the war on drugs, sodomy/ homosexuality laws, anti-birth contol/family planning bans, anti-prostitution, anti-gambling, nudity laws, and all the other religion based moral regulations forced upon the non-religious because it is for the "public good".

I will try to clarify why communalism destroys freedom. Logically, if I am required to pay for another persons health care I have a right to make certain demands upon them in order to reduce the cost of his "free" care, hence I want to control various behaviours which will increase my costs. Do I want him visiting prostitutes, being a homosexual, or even having too many sex partners of any sex, drinking too much alcohol, using mind altering drugs, rock climbing, bungie jumping, getting tatoos, riding motorcycles without a helmet, driving without a seat belt, smoking cigarettes or using tobacco, staying out past curfue, eating too much fat?...and the list is endless but you get the point.

It is only natural that when you expect the community to care for you that you will be controlled by that community and you will answer to everyone's concerns. If you pay your own way for most things you answer to fewer people. If I want pets I can't live in a pet-free apartment because I don't want to answer to my landlord who, for good reason, does not want dog and cat damage on his property.

There is a balance somewhere as to just how responsible to the community I want to be. The problem is that for most of history the individul has been diminished and the community is over emphasized to the point of godhood. Government provided health care diminishes me and makes me more dependant upon the government and subject to more regulation and less choice.

54

Anyone watched the film 'Sicko'?

by katiekitten in

jw
friends

i watched this film last night, and it made me really really grateful that we have free health care in the uk.

i know we complain about the state of the nhs, but the bottom line is if there is ever anything wrong with me my first thought will not be 'does my insurance cover this' or 'can i afford this'.. there was one part of the film where michael moore takes some people to cuba to get free health care and one woman picks up inhalers for 5 cents a piece, that are costing her $120 in the us.

she just breaks down and crys at the disparity of the cost.. it was also telling to see the insurance companies employ people specifically to try and find ways to deny claims or to void policies where a claim has been made.

Liberty

You make a great point Emy! The Berlin Wall was built to keep people from GETTING AWAY from a "free" health care system.

A friend who works in Red China also saw first hand the equality and "free" health care recieved by the farm workers there. Rural clinics which treat the ignorant farmers (who still make up the majority of Chin's surplus population) are routinly prescribed placebo medicines in very ornate gilded bottles because they equate the effectivness of the medicine with the quality of the container while out of country visitors and elite educated professionals recieve modern Western style treatments. These peasants are also encouraged to smoke government cigarettes in order to have them die early and save the state pension money.

Another clue that a government system may not have your best interest at heart is whether you are allowed to opt out of the system. You cannot chose to not pay Social Security even if you agreed to refuse the benifits and many government health schemes are the same, some even outlawing the use of private medical care.

54

Anyone watched the film 'Sicko'?

by katiekitten in

jw
friends

i watched this film last night, and it made me really really grateful that we have free health care in the uk.

i know we complain about the state of the nhs, but the bottom line is if there is ever anything wrong with me my first thought will not be 'does my insurance cover this' or 'can i afford this'.. there was one part of the film where michael moore takes some people to cuba to get free health care and one woman picks up inhalers for 5 cents a piece, that are costing her $120 in the us.

she just breaks down and crys at the disparity of the cost.. it was also telling to see the insurance companies employ people specifically to try and find ways to deny claims or to void policies where a claim has been made.

Liberty

I agree 100% that health care in the U.S. costs too much. The argument is over why. It is clear to me that government meddling is responsible for over priced medical goods and services. If McDonalds could get away with charging $100.00 for a hamburger they would but they compete in a less regulated field and so cannot get away with it.

Veterinary medicine is nearly as complex and the training as intensive yet the prices are far more reasonable because pet owners shop around for services and then pay directly for the care and this keeps prices down. Insurance is the same, car and home owners insurance is more reasonable than health insurance because your employer does not buy it for you and when it pays a claim it pays it to you once you have assymbled a set of reasonable estimates from competing independant venders. If you do the repair work yourself or elect not to repair less than vital damage you are even allowed to keep the money you did not spend.

Luxery hotels cost far less per night than a simple hospital room so it is clear that the prices are grossly inflated. Doctors are forced to pay outrageous prices for malpractice insurance because our corrupted court systems pay out ridiculous sums in settlements and at the same time the medical community conspires to hide the records of dangerous Dr.s from the customer. If you were allowed to shop around and compare the success histories of medical practitioners and if they openly competed the malpractice would go down, bad Dr.s would be driven out of business, and prices would come down.

In short, compare the prices of other less regulated high end services and it becomes very clear that the medical industry is full of waste, overcharging, ridiculous wages, unneeded costs, faked billing records, and general graft which they only get away with because it is easy to hide among the miles of regulatory red tape from their friends in Congress.

When my father was a boy his family was very poor and yet they had a Doctor who made housecalls and treated them in return for my Grandmother providing him a hot lunch once a week, sometime laundry service, or their home raised fresh plucked chickens (depending on his needs). This arrangement was satisfactory to both parties since my Grandmother had to do laundry, pluck chickens, and cook hot lunches anyway and this widowed Doctor needed her services to make his life better. A fair trade accepted by both parties without the government getting in the way.

17

How do the JW's justify selling old Kindom Halls to Christendom?

by oppgirl63 in

jw
friends

in a town near where i live the kh was sold and i noticed a couple of weeks ago a sign was put up...church of god in christ.

i know it's all about money....but it just seems hypocritical to me.

i mentioned it to my rommie...she didn't even bat an eye, like it was no big deal..

Liberty

Try using the same Watch Tower logic to sell plain little cut fur trees that may or may not be used for a certain pagan celebration. It is just the one time sale of wood ("one time business deal"), not a sharing of religion. Yet I bet the Elders wouldn't like it. What a clear double standard.

54

Anyone watched the film 'Sicko'?

by katiekitten in

jw
friends

i watched this film last night, and it made me really really grateful that we have free health care in the uk.

i know we complain about the state of the nhs, but the bottom line is if there is ever anything wrong with me my first thought will not be 'does my insurance cover this' or 'can i afford this'.. there was one part of the film where michael moore takes some people to cuba to get free health care and one woman picks up inhalers for 5 cents a piece, that are costing her $120 in the us.

she just breaks down and crys at the disparity of the cost.. it was also telling to see the insurance companies employ people specifically to try and find ways to deny claims or to void policies where a claim has been made.

Liberty

Hi katiekitten,

Certainly the US was not perfect, as I stated. Race based slavery, government corruption/favoritism, religious influence, and communalistic tradition all had a part in keeping the system from reaching its full potential. Just keep in mind however that, despite propaganda we are fed, capitalism did not invent slavery, exploitation, poverty and a number of other social ills blamed upon it. Communalism is the real source of the majority of social ills which its proponents want to blame on free market capitalism. If we study history it becomes clear that such ills all predate any periods of free market capitalism and are at their worse during periods which are firmly in the grips of a communalistic system.

I will freely admit I don't have all the data memorized to print out for you here. I read and study such things and grasp general ideas which I can remember and discuss. I know such data is available as I have seen it but can not immediantly provide it for you. If you are curious I strongly suggest you research it for yourself as I do not claim infalable knowledge. If I have time I may be able to put together some stats but I think most people would agree that Western countries that embraced capitalism are far better off than they were in 1200 AD and no stats are needed to see this.

54

Anyone watched the film 'Sicko'?

by katiekitten in

jw
friends

i watched this film last night, and it made me really really grateful that we have free health care in the uk.

i know we complain about the state of the nhs, but the bottom line is if there is ever anything wrong with me my first thought will not be 'does my insurance cover this' or 'can i afford this'.. there was one part of the film where michael moore takes some people to cuba to get free health care and one woman picks up inhalers for 5 cents a piece, that are costing her $120 in the us.

she just breaks down and crys at the disparity of the cost.. it was also telling to see the insurance companies employ people specifically to try and find ways to deny claims or to void policies where a claim has been made.

Liberty

Sure SixofNine,

First off, never be fooled by anybody telling you that they have the perfect society or form of government. There is no such thing, and the term Utopia describing a perfect society literally means "no place". Libertarianism does not promise a perfect society, only the best possible given human limitations.

The Enlightenment period is when economics was first studied scientifically and it is no acident that free market capitalism was developing as the power of the Catholic Church was being challenged in Western Europe. Because of religion, tradition, and archaic governmental systems, given their authority by religion (King/Queen rule and nobility), the rise of free market capitalism and the resulting push for better government, more freedom, and equality was greatly hampered. Britain was a bastian of capitalism and this pushed the government there to become more egalitarian and reform minded. As english settlers came to the New World these ideas followed along with them. The United States in the 19th century (1800s) was the culmination of the libertarian ideal (though libertarianism was not yet defined) of innovation and growth based upon the Enlightenment freedoms formalized in our Constitution and applied to government. This resulted in the fastest technological and economic growth in history.

The US had many hold overs from religious communalism holding back our growth and freedom but the great innovations and industrial revolution of the 19th century is the best example of what can be done when libertarian ideas are allowed to fluorish. Great wealth was produced and an historical trend was broken where once 90% of the population were subsistance farmers being exploited by 10% church/state ruling class was transformed into a system dominated by a new middle class.

54

Anyone watched the film 'Sicko'?

by katiekitten in

jw
friends

i watched this film last night, and it made me really really grateful that we have free health care in the uk.

i know we complain about the state of the nhs, but the bottom line is if there is ever anything wrong with me my first thought will not be 'does my insurance cover this' or 'can i afford this'.. there was one part of the film where michael moore takes some people to cuba to get free health care and one woman picks up inhalers for 5 cents a piece, that are costing her $120 in the us.

she just breaks down and crys at the disparity of the cost.. it was also telling to see the insurance companies employ people specifically to try and find ways to deny claims or to void policies where a claim has been made.

Liberty

Just to be clear Jourles, I am quite aware that the USA is a socialist state and I am seeking to ween us from the communalism which permiates this society. Let me also be clear that communalism existed long before Karl Marx. Classic Christianity is riddled with communalistic ideas. Hence why so many ex-JWs and other Fundi-Christians are so comfortable with the nanny state regulating our freedoms and foisting their false charity work upon us.

54

Anyone watched the film 'Sicko'?

by katiekitten in

jw
friends

i watched this film last night, and it made me really really grateful that we have free health care in the uk.

i know we complain about the state of the nhs, but the bottom line is if there is ever anything wrong with me my first thought will not be 'does my insurance cover this' or 'can i afford this'.. there was one part of the film where michael moore takes some people to cuba to get free health care and one woman picks up inhalers for 5 cents a piece, that are costing her $120 in the us.

she just breaks down and crys at the disparity of the cost.. it was also telling to see the insurance companies employ people specifically to try and find ways to deny claims or to void policies where a claim has been made.

Liberty

Good questions Brinjen,

The short answer is that most of us have been raised in communalist cultures and brainwashing from childhood makes it difficult for us to clearly see what freedom is and it is hard to see how we are controlled and exploited by the state and how this impoverishes us.

Most of us live under the control of nanny states and are told we should appreciate it. We are told what drugs we can use and when, what our children will be taught in state run schools, what we must wear, what we can read, what pictures or movies we can view, when we must serve the state as soldiers, when-if-how we may drink or make alcohol, told we are not free to sell our sexual services or our own organs, told who we can or cannot sell our property too, who we can hire and fire for our businesses, told how much money we are allowed to make and keep, forced to give to charities we do not approve of through taxation, disallowed weapons for self defence unless we are under the orders of the nanny state and the list goes on and on.

Any time we make others responsible for our needs they will control you. Think of the regulations regarding the qualifications and requirments for recieving any form of government aid. That is why our parents controlled us as children and why we wanted to grow up and move out so we were not dependant upon them anymore and did not have to follow their rules. I don't need the government to tell me when or what I can buy and then use because I am an adult. Why do I need a perscription for antibiotic creams? I am tired of being treated like a child. Can't I decide for myself whether I should sell my kidney or not especially when I am encouraged to give it away by the same government that denies me the right to sell it?

When people are prevented from keeping the rewards of their hard work they quickly learn to work less. If inventions are stolen from the inventor they cease inventing. The entire culture is impoverished by these thefts of freedom.

Westernized countries like Australia are living now off of the huge surpluses created by free market capitalism and these profits support the communalist programs but as these surpluses shrink the nanny states become more and more demanding and this increases the slide into poverty and totalitarianism as individuals become less responsible for themselves.

I have done the research. The facts are clear. History is filled with communalistic cultures exploiting people and forcing them into poverty and technological stagnation.

54

Anyone watched the film 'Sicko'?

by katiekitten in

jw
friends

i watched this film last night, and it made me really really grateful that we have free health care in the uk.

i know we complain about the state of the nhs, but the bottom line is if there is ever anything wrong with me my first thought will not be 'does my insurance cover this' or 'can i afford this'.. there was one part of the film where michael moore takes some people to cuba to get free health care and one woman picks up inhalers for 5 cents a piece, that are costing her $120 in the us.

she just breaks down and crys at the disparity of the cost.. it was also telling to see the insurance companies employ people specifically to try and find ways to deny claims or to void policies where a claim has been made.

Liberty

Socialism, Communism, or any form of communalism is never free because it will always cost you your freedom. When you are dependant on others for all of your needs you are controlled by these others who control your needs. The rejection of government imposed communalism is not about greed or selfishness it is about freedom and free people are happy and more productive people, hence free (noncommunalistic) cultures have always out done communalistic cultures due to increased productivity and creative invention/innovation.

Most of the problems in the U.S.A.'s health care systems are caused by socialist government intrusion into the health care business. The disasterous employer-based insurance system was primarily the fault of goverment imposed wage controls which led to health insurance being offered as a hiring incentive to get around wage controls. If Americans had continued to shop for and buy their own health insurance competition would have helped to keep prices down.

Also the insurance covered population is forced to pay all the extra costs incured because of the government imposed requirment that private hospitals must provide "free" care for anyone who stumbles into the emergency room for treatment. Most of these cases could easily be handled by private charity if the government had kept their noses out of it. These outrageous costs are passed on to the insurance companies who pass them along in higher premiums. I haven't even mentioned our ridiculous medicare/medicaid systems which provide subsidized health care for wealthy retirees who could easily afford to pay for their own health care.

Our draconian drug laws, corrupted court system, and the extreme regulation of the pharmacuitical industry is also responsible for our high costs. Drug users should take at least some responsibility for the risk that may be incurred when using drugs and assesing if those risks outweigh the benifits. For example, many diabetics could easily stop using drugs if they controlled their diets. If people were free to sell their own organs our organ transplant shortage problem would diminish.

In short, communalism and nanny states have never provided any thing free to anyone and they never will. Slavery and false charity are the hallmarks of such systems and these lead to stagnation and poverty for all.