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according to the march 15, 2002 wt page 14 the "seven stars" of revelation 1:20 in christ's righ hand apply exclusively to appointed jw elders today and since they and the governing body are under christ's direction we should submit to their leadership etc.. .
at the kingdom hall last week i heard a talk in wich the speaker intimated that since the congregations in asia minor all received letters they were organized in much the same way as the wt is today.. what is your take on this matter?
For some strange reason when the angel says "the seven stars MEAN"....I kinda go along with what the angel says and not anyone else.
Its okay, thought, I hear the elders are also the "glorious ones", etc., ad nausem....Yeah right.
See we're all the same, no need for special titles, or to make some seem worth MORE than others....Yeah right.
Edited by - Lieu on 25 June 2002 15:34:57
the bible reports that the babylonians under nebuchadnezzar destroyed .
chronology, the desolation of jerusalem would have been in the year 587/6 .
babylon (in his accession year, 605 b.c.e.
I say that no one really knows what YEAR these things happened. The Bible has no dates...it only states in the second year of such-and-such, and the like. It gives no dates because the dates aren't important. Why, as we can all attest, because some crackpots would spend an entire lifetime trying to figure out when the big A was supposed to happen....a date, time, and year that is NONE of anyone's stinking business!
Mankind has had various dating systems through the stream of time...all which have changed dramatically. This is why I ask how do we really know what year it is?
WHICH calender (dating system) should we use and does it include leap-years? Are we supposed to factor leap-years into the 70 yr period? Yes? No?
Note on dates: Virtually all precise dates for early Rome are antiquarian reconstructions. The conventional (Varronian) dates for Roman events before the late 4th century are high by four years due to the insertion of the fabricated dictator-years333, 324, 309, and 301. In what follows, the conventional dates will appear in square brackets.]
Late in the fourth century the modern calender system was "made up". Yeah, this all makes since considering we're presumptuous enough to count time based on when everyone "suppposes" Christ was born. Sure, okay.
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i would appreciate any input from residents of other nations for this homework assignment, as well as americans.. what do members of other nations really think about america, compared with what we percieve them as thinking?.
please help, assignment due tomorrow!.
Having lived on several continents, this is what I have noticed:
Americans when visiting other places tend to bring certain 'baggage' ... certian attitudes.
Americans tend to think they are the only people in the world and everyone else should be glad they (Americans) exist.
Americans tend to wonder, when they finally travel outside the USA, why people don't have what they have. Unbelievably naiive.
Americans tend to think the laws of other countries are just like this one and are usually suprised when the Germans take their drivers license for six months due to speeding. Or that the penalty for DWI in Mexico is death.
Americans basically have absolutely no idea what goes on in the rest of the world. We usually also have no idea what US policies are toward the rest of the world...leaving us to wonder again why such and such country hates us....Hmmmm?
Americans living in foreign countries tend to treat the citizens as if beneath themselves. Americans bring their hatreds and biases with them, whever they go.
Americans don't realize that everyone else in the world wants the same thing they do...Freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. But they don't necessarily want it in the American style.
the watchtower teaches only a few have the heavenly hope.
men of old such as abraham will supposedly be raised from the dead and live on earth.
yet, hebrews tells us these men actually had a heavenly hope.
That was THE best book ever written by the WBTS. (In ref: The Greatest Man Who Ever Lived)
It was the only one that when I finished reading...that just plain made me happy!
the bible reports that the babylonians under nebuchadnezzar destroyed .
chronology, the desolation of jerusalem would have been in the year 587/6 .
babylon (in his accession year, 605 b.c.e.
perspicacia2 is counting the time incorrectly....... If you add 70 years to 537, you don't get 607. Why? Because time counts DOWN not UP. The correct thing to do would be to SUBTRACT 70 years. Time (as counted by Western standards) goes 606, 537, 482, 1 BC...AFTER the birth of Christ, 1 AD, 537, 607, etc. The years before Christs birth are counting down to zero. (by Western standards, and whos to say Western standards are correct)
Fact is, no specific years are mentioned in the Bible because YEARS aren't important. Counting time as specific years is something that man has recently made up ...but it isn't God's way. The Bible tells us to pay attention to the signs, times, and seasons...not to any specific year date.
I for one am sick and tired of MAN trying to guess when God's day is supposed to happen. It isn't for anyone to know; therefor anyone who claims to know when it is, is an outright liar and a blasphemer. Stop being like Adam and Eve, stealing and eating something that doesn't belong to you....Can't God just have his one tree? ... His one secret day?
Like God has to do things when WE say so. Unbelievable!
The Gentile times haven't ended yet...their kings (rulers) are STILL having their day!!!! Next thing you know, somebody will be saying they know what year Adam was created. NOT!!!
Truth is, we don't even know what year this truly is from the beginning of man's creation. Is it really 2002? How do we know? We don't know. ( We made it up!! ) The reason we don't know is because its not important. I hope your entire faith isn't based on a Year date. If so, your faith is in vain.
Edited by - Lieu on 19 June 2002 3:43:57
Edited by - Lieu on 19 June 2002 3:46:1
q is the organization a direct channel between god and humanity?
a again, our governing body has never claimed that our organization is inspired or infallible.
instead they, our governing body, study the bible diligently and through prayer they make a request for his holy spirit to direct them and be upon them.
Here's something updated for the person who asked about 'channels': ....(Southland)
*** w99 12/1 15-16 Be Happy Readers of the Book of Revelation *** Who is the ultimate Source of the Revelation, and what channel is used to transmit it? The opening verse tells us: "A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John." (Revelation 1:1) To put it simply, the actual Source of the Revelation is Jehovah God, who gave it to Jesus, and by means of an angel, Jesus communicated it to John. A little further scrutiny reveals that Jesus also used the holy spirit to convey messages to the congregations and to give John visions.Revelation 2:7, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22; 4:2; 17:3; 21:10; compare Acts 2:33.
4
Jehovah still uses his Son, the "head of the congregation," to teach his servants on earth. (Ephesians 5:23; Isaiah 54:13; John 6:45) Jehovah also uses his spirit to instruct his people. (John 15:26; 1 Corinthians 2:10) And just as Jesus used "his slave John" to communicate sustaining spiritual food to the first-century congregations, so today he uses "the faithful and discreet slave," made up of his anointed "brothers" on earth, to give his domestics and their companions spiritual "food at the proper time." (Matthew 24:45-47; 25:40) Happy are those who recognize the Source of the good gifts we receive in the way of spiritual food and the channel He is using.James 1:17.Christ-Directed
Congregations5
In the opening chapters of Revelation, Christian congregations are likened to lampstands. Their overseers are likened to angels (messengers) and to stars. (Revelation 1:20) Speaking of himself, Christ told John to write: "These are the things that he says who holds the seven stars in his right hand, he who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands." (Revelation 2:1) The seven messages sent to the seven Asian congregations show that in the first century C.E., the congregations and their elders had their strong points and their weak points. The same is true today. We will, therefore, be much happier if we never lose sight of the fact that Christ, our Head, is in the midst of the congregations. He knows exactly what is going on. The overseers are symbolically "in his right hand," that is, under his control and direction and answerable to him for the way they shepherd the congregations.Acts 20:28; Hebrews 13:17.Confused, eh?
Edited by - Lieu on 11 June 2002 18:10:50
if anyone has read the study articles...exactly what did you think?
my take on the matter: all of the "great crowd of other sheep" are now being equated to the 'foreigners' of isaiah's prophesy.the 'gb' now thinks they are actually zion instead of being sons of zion which explains their thinking they are the "mother" and not the sons.but they are also the sons of zion....or earthly sons...but also zion...but wtf?if the gb are = to zion which is = to jah's woman, then they actually think they are = to jah...and are not the bride of christ (son) but have the audacity to think they could be the bride of jah (father).a reiteration of the 1919 stupid thing runs rampant throughout the article....can't we just stop with the dates fellas?!!
!they think they (gb) have been repurchased by jah .... not by christ and his blood who is supposed to be thier husbandly ownerthey try and rationalise why the congregational election of elders stopped...instead of telling the truth of why it stopped.. i have come to the conclusion that the gb does not acknowledge anything christ did, nor the fact that the 'annointed' are suposed to make up the 'bride of christ'.
If anyone has read the study articles...exactly what did you think? My take on the matter:
I have come to the conclusion that the GB does not acknowledge anything Christ did, nor the fact that the 'annointed' are suposed to make up the 'bride of Christ'. In my opinion this article says that Christ died for nothing...by stating He is NOT the repurchaser. They are not heirs or 'sons' they ARE the Mother, therefore they are OVER Christ since he is just the Son.
It amazes me that even today, JW's follow the lead of a cigar, smoking money mongering, drunkard. The GB is Disgusting! They have denied Christ and in doing so, they have denied Jehovah.
Did anyone see the article?
Edited by - Lieu on 10 June 2002 8:51:56
i was looking at another thread.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=24809&site=3.
and was wondering,if i'm not being too forward, what kh did everyone here go to.. i used to go to the cranston kh in ri, usa .
Bertchesgarten, Gernamy - Maryland - Balboa Panama - Sierra Vista, Az - Colorado Springs, Co - Clarksville, Tn
from 70-2000
Edited by - Lieu on 10 June 2002 5:57:31
my feeling on this whole sexual abuse matter is that if a child has been or is being molested, it should be taken straight to the police.
why allow the elders to "decide" first if there is any merit to the allegations.
mainly because if the accused has committed this crime and denies to the elders, the victim is basically screwed in the eyes of the congregation.
Interesting note:
I think the problem comes from the difference in 'training'. Males are taught to give teaching lectures to an audience...where females are taught to have teaching "conversations" on a personal level. Females are taught to talk "to" you.
Most Elders are...well...um....borish, stiff, unconsoling, non-comforting, and possess absolutely no inter-personal skills. Elders, can however, spurt off scriptures which have been taken out of context to make the unsuspecting depressed soul feel even worse.
Males aren't taught how to do anything on a personal level....it's quite obvious that they don't know how. Elders are taught to talk "at" you.
Who would want to talk with someone like that when in need of comfort? ... who would send their child for a grand inquisition from a person like that? I mean really!!!
There are very few elders who preside in a "fine manner" and are actually good "teachers" as opposed to good "speakers". I have yet to hear a personal kind word come out of an Elder's mouth directed toward a depressed soul.
Therin lies the biggest problem.
i agree with erica's comment below: .
"i am not an apostate, i have never spoken out against god and i never will, which is what the bible says an apostate is.
we all know that the wts is not god.
Luke 18:8
"Nevertheless, when the Son of man arrives, will he really find the faith on the earth?"
