Mat

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Posts by Mat

• 
  99

  I dont like using "their" name for God

  by jean-luc picard in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i realize that i avoid using their name for god.. i can say it................. jehovah.

  but i'll avoid it almost always..... if i'm talking with you,.

  on the rare occasions that i am in conversation with any jdub family,.

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• 

  Mat

  PScumbag

  Your inability to click on links and read stuff for yourself is rather sad. Do you want me to copy and paste for you?

  Development

  The most widespread theory is that the Hebrew term ??????? has the vowel points of ??????? (adonai). Using the vowels of adonai, the composite hataf patah ? under the guttural alef ? becomes a sheva ? under the yod ? , the holam ? is placed over the first he ? , and the qamats ? is placed under the vav ? , giving ??????? (Jehovah). When the two names, ???? and ???? , occur together, the former is pointed with a hataf segol ? under the yod ? and a hiriq ? under the second he ? , giving ??????? , to indicate that it is to be read as (elohim) in order to avoid adonai being repeated. [ 23 ]

  The pronunciation Jehovah is believed to have arisen through the introduction of vowels of the qere—the marginal notation used by the Masoretes. In places where the consonants of the text to be read (the qere) differed from the consonants of the written text (the kethib), they wrote the qere in the margin to indicate the desired reading. [citation needed] In such cases, the kethib was read using the vowels of the qere. For a few very frequent words the marginal note was omitted, referred to as q're perpetuum. [ 17 ] One of these frequent cases was God's name, which was not to be pronounced in fear of profaning the "ineffable name". Instead, wherever ???? (YHWH) appears in the kethib of the biblical and liturgical books, it was to be read as ??????? (adonai, "My Lord [plural of majesty]"), or as ???????? (elohim, "God") if adonai appears next to it. [citation needed] This combination produces ??????? (yehovah) and ??????? (yehovih) respectively. [citation needed] ???? is also written ’? , or even ’? , and read ha-Shem ("the name"). [ 23 ]

  Scholars are not in total agreement as to why ??????? does not have precisely the same vowel points as adonai. [citation needed] The use of the composite hataf segol ? in cases where the name is to be read, "elohim", has led to the opinion that the composite hataf patah ? ought to have been used to indicate the reading, "adonai". It has been argued conversely that the disuse of the patah is consistent with the Babylonian system, in which the composite is uncommon. [ 23 ]
• 
  99

  I dont like using "their" name for God

  by jean-luc picard in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i realize that i avoid using their name for god.. i can say it................. jehovah.

  but i'll avoid it almost always..... if i'm talking with you,.

  on the rare occasions that i am in conversation with any jdub family,.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Mat

  Mad Sweeny

  I'd like to go back to a statement Mat made on page 2 of the thread and ask a question. Why is Yahweh a worse translation than Jehovah?

  Because (repeating what I have said in other posts) it is not consistent with every other name in the bible. We don't say Yerusalem, we say Jerusalem. We don't say Dawid we say David. Jehovah has the same Hebrew consonants J and V.. etc. See other posts.
• 
  99

  I dont like using "their" name for God

  by jean-luc picard in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i realize that i avoid using their name for god.. i can say it................. jehovah.

  but i'll avoid it almost always..... if i'm talking with you,.

  on the rare occasions that i am in conversation with any jdub family,.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Mat

  I now refer to 'the god of the watchtower'. To me the name 'Jehovah'TM is just their 'brand' name for god. (A bit like Coca Cola being 'the real thing'). They use it to lock victims in to their 'brand loyalty'.

  Everything about the WTB$ is just business practice. IE. No beards or no trousers for sisters = dress code for an army of sales people who promote the 'brand'.

  Also, if 'Jehovah'TM is god's name and he is our 'father', then why use it? I never called my Dad by his first name it's totally disrespectful.

  They simply promote the 'brand' for their business!

  This is exactly what I am talking about! "Jehovah" isn't and shouldn't be their brand name for God. People have been using it long before CT Russel was a twinkle in his great grand dad's eye! It's in Hymns, it's in Films. It's in more of our English culture than Yahweh! I'm saying don't give it to them! Don't let them have it! It is not theirs! But it will be if everyone else keeps being afraid of it.
• 
  99

  I dont like using "their" name for God

  by jean-luc picard in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i realize that i avoid using their name for god.. i can say it................. jehovah.

  but i'll avoid it almost always..... if i'm talking with you,.

  on the rare occasions that i am in conversation with any jdub family,.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Mat

  Wobble, "proper name" is an expression that refers to actual names of things as opposed to a "common noun" (such as God or Lord which are titles.) Check the link. That it is used as a proper name makes it one- whether the character is ficional or not. It is a grammatical expresion.

  PSacramento, you really are irked by my posts arn't you? You really take them personally. Is it because someone is pointing out that your facts are wrong and you don't like it? You said:

  We KNOW it to be true because THAT was what was done by those who DID it.

  We don't know that was why it has those vowels as a matter of fact. It is a theory, and in actual fact it does not have exactly the same vowel points as Adonai. See the link in my last post. What is more I don't belieave in this God whatever he is called because I am an atheist. He doesn't have a "true name" because he does not exist!

  However, I am arguing that Jehovah is the established English word for "God's name". Note the quotation marks. Since I don't belieave in him I don't actually think he has a name. However, Just because the JW's use that name alot does not make it theirs to own. You are acting like it is their copyright, and that is what I am arguing against!

  I await your childish, misinformed, insulting and poorly reserched highly emotive retort, because I don't expect any better of you any more.
• 
  99

  I dont like using "their" name for God

  by jean-luc picard in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i realize that i avoid using their name for god.. i can say it................. jehovah.

  but i'll avoid it almost always..... if i'm talking with you,.

  on the rare occasions that i am in conversation with any jdub family,.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Mat

  What I'm saying is that Jehovah (rather than Yahweh) is a transliteration that harmonises with how all the other Hebrew names are transliterated in the bible. For some reason, scholars who normally use the hard J sound for proper names with the Hebrew "Yod", and the V sound when it comes to the Hebrew letter "Waw", insist on saying "Yahweh" when it comes to "God's name". I'm saying this is unjustifiably inconsistent.

  Now the vowels. You don't know whether it had the same vowels as Adonai or not. No one does. So, saying "we KNOW they were add[ed] from ANOTHER WORD that has NOTHING to do with the name" is totaly untrue.

  Now I will agree that is is most likely not how the word originally sounded. But that to me is not a problem. I don't worship the tyrannical, bloodthirsty, intolerant fictional character anyway. I'm sure it matters to you who think it is all true, but I don't.

  Has it occurred to you that people may have pronounced it differently in the day anyway? Regional accents an all? The god Odin is sometimes Woden, or even Wotan. I think there is room for diferent pronunciations for the Hebrew God.

  But I speak English, and I have no problem with the established transliteration of what you call "God's name".

  Interesing article here:

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah
• 
  3

  ''In the last days will come ridiculers''...and why?

  by Aussie Oz in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  with so many groups and individuals in even just our lifetime, let alone going back 150 years or more, predicting and consistently getting the times wrong for the great tribulation and armageddon as well as the rapture etc,.

  is it any surprise that the masses reject the message from any of the current crop of 'prophets'?.

  to mention just a few that i am aware of, our own obves and lars as well as harold camping, gordon ritchie, and second adventists incl jws for example, and i know there are many many more.

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  Mat

  It makes sense if you believe that even the bible is false. The truth is that the first century Christians thought the end would be in their generation, and they were wrong.

  Now we have a religion that has outlived its sell by date and is only kept alive by the amazing capacity for humans to rationalise erroneous beliefs in the face of overwhelming evidence against it. This is caused by a phenomenon called "confirmation bias" as well as desire to conform to a group. In real life the little boy who pointed out that the Emperor had no clothes on would be ridiculed and beaten up for being so stupid.
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  99

  I dont like using "their" name for God

  by jean-luc picard in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i realize that i avoid using their name for god.. i can say it................. jehovah.

  but i'll avoid it almost always..... if i'm talking with you,.

  on the rare occasions that i am in conversation with any jdub family,.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Mat

  ...and calling someone a c*** isn't?

  He deserves it. If you are just going to mock rather than discuss something properly you earn no respect from me.
• 
  99

  I dont like using "their" name for God

  by jean-luc picard in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i realize that i avoid using their name for god.. i can say it................. jehovah.

  but i'll avoid it almost always..... if i'm talking with you,.

  on the rare occasions that i am in conversation with any jdub family,.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Mat

  PSacramento, I am that I am i just the meaning of the verb that the tetragram is based on. It has nothing to do with it's english transliteration. What have you got against the letter V in God's name? Do you object to it in David and Levi? Also do you pronounce Jerusalem like it's a soft Y?

  And don't say 'Duh' to me. It's rude.
• 
  99

  I dont like using "their" name for God

  by jean-luc picard in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i realize that i avoid using their name for god.. i can say it................. jehovah.

  but i'll avoid it almost always..... if i'm talking with you,.

  on the rare occasions that i am in conversation with any jdub family,.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Mat

  'Tetragram' just means four letters. In this case the four Hebrew letters that make the proper name of the God of the bible.
• 
  99

  I dont like using "their" name for God

  by jean-luc picard in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i realize that i avoid using their name for god.. i can say it................. jehovah.

  but i'll avoid it almost always..... if i'm talking with you,.

  on the rare occasions that i am in conversation with any jdub family,.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Mat

  Because the tetragram does not mean "lord". It is a proper name and should thus be transliterated with the same method that every other proper name is transliterated in the bible.