I see what you mean Mad Sweeney. I did go through a stage of thinking that Paul was perhaps the first apostate after Jesus. Most of the JW's unethical teachings seem to come from him (subjection of women, bad associates, etc) but after reading The Jesus Mysteries I got to thinking that Christianity is in fact corrupt to the core. At the end of the day it's a religion founded of deliberate lies.
Posts by Mat
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412 Thessalonians issue
by Mat inreading a great book, jeus interupted, that i reccomend, but i came accross an interesting issue about second thessalonians.
ehrman argues that he does not think 2 thessalonians was written by the same person who wrote 1 thessalonians, and gives his reasons:.
if paul meant what he said in 1 thessalonians, that jesus return would be sudden and unexpected, it is hard to believe that he could have written what is said in 2 thessaloniansthat the end is not coming right away and that there will be clear-cut signs to indicate that the end is near, signs that had not yet appeared.
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2 Thessalonians issue
by Mat inreading a great book, jeus interupted, that i reccomend, but i came accross an interesting issue about second thessalonians.
ehrman argues that he does not think 2 thessalonians was written by the same person who wrote 1 thessalonians, and gives his reasons:.
if paul meant what he said in 1 thessalonians, that jesus return would be sudden and unexpected, it is hard to believe that he could have written what is said in 2 thessaloniansthat the end is not coming right away and that there will be clear-cut signs to indicate that the end is near, signs that had not yet appeared.
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Mat
Hi, PSacramento is on my wavelength! Clearly Proff. Ehrman has not had experience in a religion that changes it's doctrine to accomodate events! We know from experience that it is highly plausable for one person/religion to back-peddle on their belieafs and claim they didn't mean what they clearly said before! It so happens that this is the only reason scholars claim 2 Thess was written by someone else! Nothing in the style or apparent time setting.
What this means is that even Paul would approve of the new light concept! Just goes to show that Christianity from the outset was just as manipulative and unethical as the JWs are today.
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2 Thessalonians issue
by Mat inreading a great book, jeus interupted, that i reccomend, but i came accross an interesting issue about second thessalonians.
ehrman argues that he does not think 2 thessalonians was written by the same person who wrote 1 thessalonians, and gives his reasons:.
if paul meant what he said in 1 thessalonians, that jesus return would be sudden and unexpected, it is hard to believe that he could have written what is said in 2 thessaloniansthat the end is not coming right away and that there will be clear-cut signs to indicate that the end is near, signs that had not yet appeared.
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Mat
Reading a great book, Jeus Interupted, that I reccomend, but I came accross an interesting issue about Second Thessalonians. Ehrman argues that he does not think 2 Thessalonians was written by the same person who wrote 1 Thessalonians, and gives his reasons:
If Paul meant what he said in 1 Thessalonians, that Jesus’ return would be sudden and unexpected, it is hard to believe that he could have written what is said in 2 Thessalonians—that the end is not coming right away and that there will be clear-cut signs to indicate that the end is near, signs that had not yet appeared. The author of 2 Thessalonians writes, “I told you these things when I was still with you” (2:5). If that were true, why would the Thessalonians have been upset when some members of their community died (1 Thessalonians)? They would have known that the end was not coming right away, but was to be preceded by the appearance of the anti-Christ figure and other signs.
My fellow ex-Jehovah's Witnesses, does this ring any bells? Just thought that was amusing.
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Where can I find a biblical timeline?
by Listener ini was wondering if there are any comprehensive timelines available, jw or otherwise?
i am looking for a diagram that lists the biblical characters and events and the years they were born/died and occurred - all in a summary type format.. .
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Mat
Oh, this one looks good:
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Where can I find a biblical timeline?
by Listener ini was wondering if there are any comprehensive timelines available, jw or otherwise?
i am looking for a diagram that lists the biblical characters and events and the years they were born/died and occurred - all in a summary type format.. .
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Mat
Here is one to buy:
http://www.rose-publishing.com/productdetails.cfm?SKU=420x
Might be better detailed than one free on the net. I know the "All Scripture Is Inspired By God" book by the WTS has teh JW timeline in one of it's chapters in the back.
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Seeking Study Materials
by JDAWG ini am looking for a digital copy of the gilead school study guide and the ministerial training school study guide.
if you know where i can download these or read them online, it would be greatly appreciated.
a pm will do, as to not alert the "authorities" gb.
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Mat
Gilead has been discussed here:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/53009/1/Gilead-School-Courses
Hope that helps.
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When Jesus said THIS...that pesky little word..
by doubtful indue to haste, i don't have time to cite texts, but perhaps others can do that for me, assuming i don't get a chance to do later on this evening.
but jesus, when asked about his second coming and of the conclusion of the system of things, he listed a series of portents as we all know, which concluded with multiple celestial phenomena, which according to him, were to be visible to all, just like lighting from one end of the sky to the other.
he then said that "this generation", referring to his generation of that time, would by no means pass away?
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Mat
What I think we read in these examples is a then day equivalent of a Jehovah's Witness -like cult trying to give their followers a sense of urgency by attributing an imminent prophesy to God's "Word".
It's interesting that Matthew and Mark seem to use the word to mean an imminent end, Luke seems to be aware of successive generations (Luke 1:48,50), while John doesn't seem to use the word at all. :
http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/genea.html
It suggests that Matthew and Mark were written shortly before the fall of Jerusalem, while Luke may have been written later, and John definitely later.
Whether there was a Jesus to whom the words are ascribed is an other issue.
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Bible's Buried Secrets
by Mat inanyone in the uk watching this seris?
last one on next tuesday.
the first two can be watched online here:.
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Mat
The Garden of Eden story is part of the "J" text that scholars generally believe was written way before Babylon destroyed Jerusalem. That's what I didn't get. She would be familiar with the Documentary Hypothesis, so was she arguing that J was written after Babylonian exile? She didn't explain herself.
First she reckoned Eden meant a king's garden with aqueducts watering it, then she said is was the Temple (which had pictures of a garden in it) which has no aqueducts! Serufs are serpents? The J script was written after Babylon destroyed Jerusalem? Someone explain it to me!
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They don't even know their own doctrines...
by Leto ini had an interesting exchange on facebook with some random jw's on the april auxillary piosneering page.
seems they don't realize that the watchtower has set itself up as the mediator between the great crowd and jesus.
i post multiple watchtowers that outright say that "jesus is not mediator towards all mankind, but only 'spiritual israel', or the 144,000...".
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Mat
Be careful critisising JW's over things they don't know they believe. I remember when I was a JW I was in the library and I decided to look at a anti witness book (can't remember which one) and I remember reading- "This book will tell you things about the Jehovah's Witnesses that they will deny, and probably don't even know"!! I thought to myself then- if anything is a set up for saying lies about us, that is!
I too would have argued that the GB is not our mediator (in fact I think I remember dong so more than once).
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Bible's Buried Secrets
by Mat inanyone in the uk watching this seris?
last one on next tuesday.
the first two can be watched online here:.
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Mat
Ok, the third and final episode has just been aired, and is now on the link. To be honest, I didn't think it was very good. She argues that Eden was originally a reference to the Jerusalem Temple (because it had carvings of fruit trees and cherubs) and Adam was the king, and the banishment was a reference to snake worship leading to Babylon destroying the temple- or did I misunderstand it?
The first episode was teh best one, the socond was also very good, but did play for time a bit. This last episode just didn't add up, I thought.
