i couldn't put it down!
very informative.
i agreed with it all.
CoC is not the holy Grail. It is just an imperfection of men fallacy argument! I'm surprised it still works on people.
That the author made money from the book does is not prove the book is false. It is just ad hominem fallacy argument! I'm surprised it still works on people.
this is a truthfull account of what i went through,it is a work in progress and there is much mor to come.. all i can say to anyone reading this and are contemplating joining or are still a jehovahs witness is dont join and those that have,leave asap!.
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You've gone through so much...what a blessing that you have found peace.
Thank you so much for sharing your story.
i'm asking because i just watched "the road".
it may not be the saddest but it's up there.
"my sister's keeper" was a real tearjerker too..
Toy Story 3 is one of those few movies that can be rightly labeled as "Makes Grown Men Cry".
Bawled my eyes out. Damn kids... going and growing up, not needing their toys (or their mommys and daddys) anymore...I'm freaking crying right now. It didn't help that my son was the exact age of the boy in that movie...
Shadowlands is pretty sad. And beautiful. "The pain then is part of the happiness now. That's the deal."
Legends of the Fall was so sad that it actually made me angry. I wanted to hunt down the film maker for what he did to me. Hate that movie. Same with Million Dollar Baby.
but our situation is very difficult and quite high profile.... i was raised as a jw and my mother was very strict and abusive.
i got baptized at age 14.. my mother actually called on my (present) husband's mom in service.
she was on the initial call resulting in his mom coming in the truth and him being raised in it from about age 8 or 9.. despite a very abusive step-father, he followed his mom's lead and came into the truth.
Headspinning, welcome.
The Organization cares about how things look, ...not about people, or repentance, or love, or truth, or what is in a person's heart, or what person has suffered, or anything else.
Only how things look.
But some things are more important than 'how things look.'
You and your husband are two very precious things that are much, much more important than 'how things look.'
Love is more important than 'how things look.'
The Organization has their priorities way out of wack.
what are the top 5 books you would either recommend and/or have had the greatest influence on you?
(if you only want to mention one or two that's fine as well.).
if you feel like it, please briefly tell us why.
I just finished this book and it is really, really good.
Really good.
From The New YorkerFallada wrote this novel in twenty-four days in 1947, the last year of his life; he was addicted to drugs and alcohol, and had just been released from a Nazi insane asylum. The story is based on that of an actual working-class Berlin couple who conducted a three-year resistance campaign against the Nazis, by leaving anonymous postcards at random locations around the city. The book has the suspense of a John le Carré novel, and offers a visceral, chilling portrait of the distrust that permeated everyday German life during the war. Especially interesting are the details that show how Nazi-run charities and labor organizations monitored and made public the degree to which individuals supported or eschewed their cause. The novel shows how acts that at the time might have seemed “ridiculously small,” “discreet,” and “out of the way” could have profound and lasting meaning.
From Publishers WeeklyStarred Review. This disturbing novel, written in 24 days by a German writer who died in 1947, is inspired by the true story of Otto and Elise Hampel, who scattered postcards advocating civil disobedience throughout war-time Nazi-controlled Berlin. Their fictional counterparts, Otto and Anna Quangel, distribute cards during the war bearing antifascist exhortations and daydream that their work is being passed from person to person, stirring rebellion, but, in fact, almost every card is immediately turned over to authorities. Fallada aptly depicts the paralyzing fear that dominated Hitler's Germany, when decisions that previously would have seemed insignificant—whether to utter a complaint or mourn one's deceased child publicly—can lead to torture and death at the hands of the Gestapo. From the Quangels to a postal worker who quits the Nazi party when she learns that her son committed atrocities and a prison chaplain who smuggles messages to inmates, resistance is measured in subtle but dangerous individual stands. This isn't a novel about bold cells of defiant guerrillas but about a world in which heroism is defined as personal refusal to be corrupted. (Mar.)
i was bane and i think i got banned because everytime i tried to log in i couldn't.
i was defending the society as best as i could.
something has happened in the last few months.
Welcome, Botzwana. :)
maybe the effect of this change is bigger than realized?
in 1995, it was discussed (positively) by everybody, during the week we studied the wt.
one elder stepped down and was looked down upon.
"Interestingly, the autumn of the year 1975 marks the end of 6,000 years of human experience. This is ascertainable from reliable chronology preserved in the Bible itself. What will that year mean for humankind? Will it be the time when God executes the wicked and starts off the thousand-year reign of his Son Jesus Christ? It very well could, but we will have to wait to see. Yet of this we can be certain: the generation that Jesus said would witness those events is nearing its close. The time is close at hand. On God’s 'timetable' we are in the closing days of a wicked system of things that will soon be gone forever. A glorious new order is immediately before us."
DJEGGNOG SAID: As I was reading this, I had in mind what a basketball coach in high school might say to the kids on the team as an encouragement to make them go out and do their vest best to win the championship game for which they have worked so very hard to become a contender in this final game of the season.
It made you think about a basketball coach encouraging the kids on the team.
It made me think of a false prophet.
Maybe your analogy would work if the coach had said, "Jesus said we will win this game!" But what coach would say that? That would be a lie! Jesus never said that!
Oh snap. Maybe this analogy does kind of work.
Did Jehovah's Witnesses ever say, in this Watchtower article, dated May 1, 1967 -- in the article you quoted here that is entitled, "Where Are We According to God's Timetable?" -- that we were certain that those living in 1914 would not all pass away before the end came? No, we did not say that.
Yes, the Watchtower did say that in the May 1, 1967. "Jesus said that "This generation" that saw the beginning of this time period in 1914 would also see its end." Here it is in context...
May 1, 1967 Watchtower: According to Bible chronology, we are already over fifty-two years into the wicked system of things' "time of the end." That time began in the autumn of 1914 C.E., at the termination of the "Appointed times of the nations," and it is alrady far advanced. Jesus said that "this generation" that saw the beginning of this time period in 1914 would also see its end. The generation that was old enough to view those events with understanding in 1914 is no longer young. It no longer has many years to run. Already many of its members have died. But Jesus showed that there would still b emembers of ":This generation" alive at the time of the passing away of this wicked systme of things in both heaven and earth.
Nowhere does it say 'maybe the end will come before the generation of 1914 passes away' or 'if our calculations are correct...' or anything else. They said "Jesus said." Period.
Djeggnog said: Only if our calculations were correct, would this be the case, but we never made a prediction that those living in 1914 would not all pass away before the end came.
No, you are wrong. They never said, 'if our calculations were correct.'
Yes, the Watchtower did predict the world ending before the generation of 1914 passes away. For proof, please see above. And for additional proof see all of the many other quotes I posted on page 21 of this thread.
djeggnog said: At Mark 13:32, Jesus said that 'nobody knows that day or hour' and we believe him.
Then why did they say, "Jesus said that "this generation" that saw the beginning of this time period in 1914 would also see its end. "
Do you believe Jehovah's Witnesses know something about that day or hour even though Jesus said "nobody knows"?
No, I don't.
This sounds to me like a problem you have in believing Jesus. You want to believe we know something that Jesus said "nobody knows," and you are willing to beat up on Jehovah's Witnesses because they don't know something that Jesus said "nobody knows."
I'm willing to argue with a Jehovah's Witness who insists on telling lies about the fact that they used to teach that "Jesus said that "this generation" that saw the beginning of this time period in 1914 would also see its end. "
If someone should say to you, they know when the end is coming, you, being a Bible reader, someone that has read Jesus' words many times, should not be thinking that Jesus lied when he said that "nobody knows," you should not be wondering if maybe somebody does know "that day or hour," because you know what Jesus said in the Bible on this point.
Finally, we agree on something.
I don't care if it is one of Jehovah's Witnesses that should say this, you hate us anyway, why should you believe what Jehovah's Witnesses say.
I don't hate Jehovah's Witnesses. I hate the organization, and I hate lies.
Your life changed dramatically because you thought you read in the Watchtower that we were certain that those living in 1914 would not all pass away before the end came,
My life changed dramatically when my parents were converted in the late 60's.
although the Watchtower didn't say this at all,
Yest, the Watchtower did say "Jesus said that "this generation" that saw the beginning of this time period in 1914 would also see its end. "
so beat up on us, but beat up on yourself, too, because it is you that thought you read something in the Watchtower that contradicted what Jesus said on this point and you preferred to believe what you thought the Watchtower had said instead of what the Bible said on this point.
Dude, everytime you bring up that the Bible says no one would know the day or the hour you are just making my point. Because clearly, the Watchtower did go against the Bible when they said, "Jesus said that "this generation" that saw the beginning of this time period in 1914 would also see its end. "
@djeggnog wrote:
No, we are not liars. You are the one that keeps saying that we said we were "certain," but you have produced no proof to that effect.
Yes, you are liars. The Watchtower said, "Jesus said that "this generation" that saw the beginning of this time period in 1914 would also see its end." May 1, 1967 Watchtower
Jesus never said any such thing. It's a lie.
I also provided many, many more quotes where the Watchtower stated this teaching as FACT on page 21 of this thread.
I have asked you more than once for it, but you have failed to produce any proof.
See above.
You read more into words than are really there and then expect me to explain to you why they say to you what they don't say to others that can both read the English language and comprehend it. We've gone round and round on this point and all you've been doing here is repeating yourself; you've presented nothing new. You're wrong and your quotations from the various articles prove you're wrong. There's absolutely nothing in any of these quotes that provide support for your contentions.
Well I suppose we shall have to agree to disagree. The readers of this thread will look at your proof and they will look at my proof here and on page 21 and they will decide if you are right, or if you are in more denial than Lindsay Lohan.
No, @lisaBObesa, Jehovah's Witnesses are practicing true religion, we believe what things the Bible teaches, we believe in the truth, and the truth is that "nobody knows" when the end is coming. Ok?
It's not the TRUTH. It's a GUESS. The Watchtower and the Governing Body are just guessing. Even now, they are still guessing,
In a previous post, I spoke about conditional and unconditional promises, but even a six-year-old child knows that an unconditional promise can become a conditional one. When they look outside and see that it is raining cats and dogs, they realize that the promise that they were given by their parents about their spending all day Saturday at the amusement park was a conditional one. So they go to their parents, not to cry to them about how they didn't keep their promise, but to try to elicit another promise from them for next Saturday, assuming in their little hearts that it doesn't rain next Saturday and Mom and Dad have nothing else planned for that day.
So something came up, rain, so the parents couldn't take the kids to the amusement park.
The Watchtower said, "Jesus said that "this generation" that saw the beginning of this time period in 1914 would also see its end. "
Are you telling me something came up and Jesus couldn't fulfill His promise?
The Awake said, ""This magazine builds confidence in the Creator’s promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away."
Are you saying something came up and the Creator couldn't fulfill His promise?
For all I know, you might even be a child. I cannot really tell based on what you have written, so I'd better just leave it at that and ask you, like the kids say, to stop trippin'.
I'm young compared to some people.
In conclusion, the recent information in the Watchtower about "this generation" didn't change our understanding of what occurred in 1914. We were guessing, but we didn't lie to anyone.
In conclusion, the recent information in the Watchtower about "this generation" didn't change our understanding of what occurred in 1914. We were guessing, but we didn't lie to anyone.
several million americans will stop receiving unemployment benefits if the senate does not approve an extension.
is this the time to cut benefits.. should the benefits package be part of the federal deficit or should it be addressed with offsets, which seems to be the main point of contention.. are there enough temporary jobs available or jobs which may not be a persons ideal choice..
Things are bad. Very bad. I don't know if the ecconomy can afford to cut off aide to several million unemployed... And I don't know if we can afford to continue them.
It's just not good. Not good at all.
maybe the effect of this change is bigger than realized?
in 1995, it was discussed (positively) by everybody, during the week we studied the wt.
one elder stepped down and was looked down upon.
In conclusion, the recent information in the Watchtower about "this generation" didn't change our understanding of what occurred in 1914. We were guessing, but we didn't lie to anyone.
Thank you for admitting that he Governing Body of the Jehovah's Witness were guessing about the generation of 1914 not passing away before the end of the world.
Although you and others missed it, we spelled out our viewpoint on the matter and we mad no promises whatsoever as to a specific year.
I don't get your point. I didn't say they promised a certian year.
I've been saying that the Watchtower said that GOD PROMISED the end of the world during a certian generation.
I also said "The Watchtower took a position that 1975 very well could be when God executes the wicked."
But what you have failed to do,@lisaBObesa, is prove evidence that we have ever made a prediction as to when the world would come to an end. All of this bluster on your part doesn't make your case. Where's your evidence that we've done more than just speculate on when the end of this system of things might occur? Where is it, @lisaBObesa?
Oh, for the love of mike. Are you serious?
Fine. Here are a few quotes from WT publications stating as FACT (not 'speculating') that the end would come before the generation of 1914 passed away:
********
The Watchtower May 1, 1967 page 262 in the bound volume:
THE END OF 6000 YEARS
In examining these scriptural facts, something else also captures our attention. According to Bible chronology, we are already over fifty-two years into the wicked system of things' "Time of the end." That time began in the autumn of 1914 C.E., at the termination of the "Appointed times of the nations," and it is already far advaced. Jesus said that "this generation" that saw the beginning of this time period in 1914 would also see its end. the generation that was old enough to view those events with understanding in 1914 is no longer young. It no longer has many years to run. Already many of its members have died. But Jesus showed that there would still be members of "this generation" alive at the time of the passing away of this wicked system of things in both heaven and earth. (Luke 21:32, 33)
How much longer will it be, then, before God takes action to destroy the wicked and usher in the blessings of his Kingdom rule? Interestingly, the autumn of the year 1975 marks the end of 6000 years of human experience. This is ascertainable from reliable chronology preserved in the Bible itself. What will that year mean for humankind? Will it be the time when God executes the wicked and starts off the thousand-year reign of his Son Jeus Christ? It very well could, but we will have to wait to see. Yet of this we can be certain: the generation that Jesus said would witness those events is nearing its close. The time is close at hand. On God's "timetable" we are in the closing days of a wicked system of things that will soon be gone forever. A glorious new order is immediately before us. This is therefore, good reason for Chriestians everywhere to rejoice. Yes, they rejoice because fulfillment of their prayers for the kingdom of God is now at hand.
**********
**********
***km10/93p.8UsingOurMagazinesFromHousetoHouse***
The purpose of Awake! is stated clearly on page 4 of each issue: "This magazine builds confidence in the Creator’s promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away." Certainly such a magazine deserves as wide a distribution as possible in our house-to-house ministry! ********* 
*********** "The TRUTH that leads to ETERNAL LIFE" page 94 and 95 "Jesus said: 'This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.' (Matthew 24:34) Which generation did he mean? "Jesus had just referred to person who would 'see all these things.' 'These things' are the events that have taken place since 1914 and those yet to occur down to the edn of this wicked system. (Matthew 24:33) Persons born even as much as fifty years ago could not see "all these things. " They came on the scene after the foretold events were already under way. But there are people still living who were alive in 1914 and saw what was happenin then and who were old enough that they sill remembered those events. This generation is getting up in years now. A great nmber of the have already passed away in death. Yet Jesus very pointedly said: "This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur." Some of them will still be alive to see the end of the this wicked system. This means that only a short time is left before the end comes! (Psalm 90:10 [89:10 Dy]) So now is the time to take urgent action if you do not want to be swept away with this wicked system." ************* "Jesus was obviously speaking about those who were old enough to witness with understanding what took place when the ‘last days’ began.… Even if we presume that youngsters 15 years of age would be perceptive enough to realize the import of what happened in 1914, it would still make the youngest of ‘this generation’ nearly 70 years old today.… Jesus said that the end of this wicked world would come before that generation passed away in death."
—Awake!
*******
Watchtower 5/1/1985 pg 4
"Before the 1914 generation completely dies out, God's judgement must be executed."
October 8, 1968, pages 13-14 ********** Awake 4/8/1988 p, 14 "Most of the generation of 1914 has passed away. However, there are still millions on earth who were born in that year or prior to it...Jesus' words will come true, 'this generation will not pass away until all these things have happend" ****"Yes, there was a generation of people that was living in 1914, and that saw the major historical changes...We can be happy, therefore, for Jesus' assurance that there will be survivors of 'the generation of 1914' -- that this generation will not have completely passed away -- when the 'great tribulation' rings down the curtain on this wicked world system." -- The Watchtower October 15, 1980, page 31 "Jehovah's prophetic word through Jesus Christ is: 'This generation [of 1914] will by no means pass away until all things occur.' (Luke 21:32) And Jehovah, who is the source of inspired and unfailing prophecy, will bring about the fulfillment... --Watchtower 9/1/95 "Jehovah's prophetic word through Jesus Christ is: 'This generation [of 1914] will by no means pass away until all things occur.' (Luke 21:32) And Jehovah, who is the source of inspired an unfailing prophecy, will bring about the fulfillment." "Just as Jesus' prophecies regarding Jerusalem were fulfilled within the life span of the generation of the year 33 C.E., so his prophecies regarding 'the time of the end' will be fulfilled within the life span of the generation of 1914. ... "...Yes, you may live to see this promised New Order, along with survivors of the generation of 1914 -- the generation that will not pass away." -- The Watchtower May 15, 1984, pages 6-7 (The bracketed expression "[of 1914]" is in the original.) ********** ********** back to the post... |
"If Jesus used 'generation' in that sense and we apply it to 1914, then the babies of that generation are now 70 years old or older. And others alive in 1914 are in their 80’s or 90’s, a few even having reached a hundred. There are still many millions of that generation alive. Some of them 'will by no means pass away until all things occur,'—Luke 21:32."
djeggnog said: The word "if" as used here signifies the expression of a hypothetical. This is not a promise. It is merely a conclusion based on our speculating on what the word "generation" would mean if it were to "include all those living at a given time generation, contemporaries." You didn't get this point before. Why not get it now and take a right viewpoint?
The fact that this one quote says "IF" does not erase the fact that there are countless WT quotes that state as FACT that JESUS PROMISED THAT THE GENERATION OF 1914 WOULD NOT PASS AWAY before the end came.
Lisa said: Exactly. That is what the Watchtower has repeatedly promised Jehovah's Witnesses. They said that they KNEW THIS WOULD HAPPEN before the generation alive in 1914 passed away. But they didn't KNOW. They were just guessing. THEY LIED to you.djeggnog said: I see I have to be careful about my word choices when I talk to you here, because when I used the word "promised" here, you took my use of the word as an unconditional promise; I didn't mean as in I had "promised" to give you a ride to work this morning if you managed to get to my house before I left without conditions, for I had also told you that you had to be at my house no later than 7:35 am. My promise was a conditional one, so if you got left, it would have been because you weren't there by 7:35 am.***I hope everyone please reads the above exchange.***
Djeggnog, they said they were certain that those living in 1914 would not all pass away before the end came. They said that JESUS promised that the generation of 1914 would not pass away.
"Jesus said that "this generation" that saw the beginning of this time period in 1914 would also see its end." -WT 5/1/67
^^^You youself say they were only guessing about this.^^^ But they didn't say 'maybe the end would come before the generation of 1914 passed away.' They said JESUS said that the end would come before the generation of 1914 passed away. They said JESUS SAID. There was no 'conditions.' There was no 'speculating' about this. They said it was a FACT.
That is a lie. A LIE. They didn't know it for sure, and yet they said they knew it for sure. They called it "The Truth." It was not "the truth.'
It was only a guess.
They are liars.
Leave this false religion.
maybe the effect of this change is bigger than realized?
in 1995, it was discussed (positively) by everybody, during the week we studied the wt.
one elder stepped down and was looked down upon.
@lisaBObesa wrote:You are quite right about the "firm position" on 1975. It was more like a very strong position on 1975 possibly being the end because the Watchtower said that 'reliable' chronology was pointing to that year, and a very "firm position"on the end coming before the generation of 1914 passed away.
djeggnog wrote: I could, but what you are saying here is just semantics, a kind of word game really, that some people love playing. Your quote from an older Watchtower article that "the autumn of the year 1975 marks the end of 6,000 years of human experience...," ends with both the question, "Will it be the time when God executes the wicked and starts off the thousand-year reign of his Son Jesus Christ?" and the answer, "It very well could, but we will have to wait to see." But how does this question and answer from this older Watchtower article prove that Jehovah's Witnesses ever took a firm position or a "very strong position" as to 1975 being more than the year the marked the end of 6,000 years since mankind's creation (in 4026 BC)?
This Watchtower quote is proof that the Watchtower said that that 1975 "VERY WELL COULD" be the "TIME WHEN GOD EXECUTES THE WICKED."
Let's drop the semantics as you say.
Let's not call it a 'firm position' on 1975 possibly being the end of the world.
Let's not call it a 'strong position' on 1975 possibly being the end of the world.
Let's just state the facts: "The Watchtower took a position that 1975 very well might be when God executes the wicked."
We were promised that the end would come during the generation that began in the year 1914 when the sign of Jesus' invisible presence and the conclusion of this system of things began.
Exactly. That is what the Watchtower has repeatedly promised Jehovah's Witnesses. They said that they KNEW THIS WOULD HAPPEN before the generation alive in 1914 passed away. But they didn't KNOW. They were just guessing. THEY LIED to you.
Now when exactly will this generation of the sign end? Nobody knows the answer to this question, but because Jehovah's Witnesses reasoned that the word "generation" signified the life span of someone that had been alive in 1914 when the generation began, and so we concluded that the conclusion of this system of things would arrive at some point before the last of this 1914 generation had passed away.Right. I know this. I was there for that part of the LIE. And they took a 'very firm position' on that one. It was taught as a FACT. It was taught as GOD'S PROMISE. It was called "The Truth." Yet it was NOT "The Truth." It was FALSE. It was wrong.
It was the opposite of "Truth."
We are now 96 years removed from the year 1914 and the end has not yet arrived, and while the end could come within the next ten years -- I only just heard Andy Rooney say on 60 Minutes tonight "that there are more than 70,000 people in the United States over 100 years old" -- at which time some of the anointed of whom we used to call the "1914 generation" would by 2020 be 106 years old. But Jehovah's Witnesses must now adjust their understanding of the expression, "the 1914 generation," so that it accords with what we now know to be what Jesus meant when using the word "generation" at Matthew 24:34. We now realize that the word "generation" was used by Jesus to signify the period of time that began in 1914 when Jesus' presence would be discerned by his followers.Yes, yes. 'Adjust your understanding' AFTER the prophesy doesn't come true. It doesn't take God's One True Religion working under the direction of the Holy Spirit to do that.
Anybody can do that.
