Thanks everyone, but this JW LOVES essays and long well thought out ideas. The more information is in it, the more she will be able to see what the bible teaches and what the organisation doesnt do. :)
TimothyT
JoinedPosts by TimothyT
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I'M EXPLAINING WHY I DON'T BELIEVE IN THE ORGANISATION TO A JW! HELP NEEDED!
by TimothyT inhere is an email i received from one of my friends who is still a jw.
she would like to know my feelings on the matter of organisation now that im disfellowshipped.
i have written my thoughts below the email.
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I'M EXPLAINING WHY I DON'T BELIEVE IN THE ORGANISATION TO A JW! HELP NEEDED!
by TimothyT inhere is an email i received from one of my friends who is still a jw.
she would like to know my feelings on the matter of organisation now that im disfellowshipped.
i have written my thoughts below the email.
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TimothyT
Blondie: She has a large attention span and she will sit there and read these several times... i know her that well! Good point though about the scriptures. Thanks.
Nateb: You could be right. We shall see.
Cedars: Thanks. I am always as honest and unthreatening when i converse with people anyway. Im sure she will see that. I have sweetened the introduction too. CoC is a good idea, but if i say that she will think im an apostate and likely disregard the letter. If i explain my feelings from the bible, then she wont turn it down. Maybe i could reccomend it in the future. To answer the last point, YES... she will look up each one. She is very studious and she will try to understand what they are saying.
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I'M EXPLAINING WHY I DON'T BELIEVE IN THE ORGANISATION TO A JW! HELP NEEDED!
by TimothyT inhere is an email i received from one of my friends who is still a jw.
she would like to know my feelings on the matter of organisation now that im disfellowshipped.
i have written my thoughts below the email.
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TimothyT
Well, scriptures are definately good. She loves the bible so if she can see it from the bible then it will help.
Thing is aswell Cedars, i dont want to tell her why i dont like the JW organisation, i just want to tell her how i feel about their claim to being Jehovahs chosen. I will never return to it for 2 reasons now, but it wont do any good for our friendship. She knows she shouldnt even be talking to me by their standards. I think already when i send this, it will make her question what she is doing even more. She is a good person and i dont want to lose her friendship especialy after sticking by me through my being disfellowshipped.
:)
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I'M EXPLAINING WHY I DON'T BELIEVE IN THE ORGANISATION TO A JW! HELP NEEDED!
by TimothyT inhere is an email i received from one of my friends who is still a jw.
she would like to know my feelings on the matter of organisation now that im disfellowshipped.
i have written my thoughts below the email.
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TimothyT
Here is an email i received from one of my friends who is still a JW. She would like to know my feelings on the matter of organisation now that im disfellowshipped. I have written my thoughts below the email. Please read and see if i could add anything else, particularly if you can think of anymore scriptures in the New Testament which refer to Jesus as the only means of salvation. Thanks, Timmy xxx
I understand your feelings in this because i know that one of the things you have great trouble with is placing your full confidence in the organisation that goes by the God given name Jehovahs witnesses. (as you mentioned in chapter 1) but please, be like the bereaons or however they spell it, once youve examined it thoroughly allow the holy spirit to help you to trust. if you look at it logically, the congregation today is the direct successor of the early christian congregation that we have been reading about. is anyone else using Jehovahs name? or preaching the good news of his kingdom under Jesus, all over the world, in hundreds of languages, and in every country, so that all people who want to can hear? is anyone else teaching the truth about what Gods kingdom is? or telling people that they dont have to die and go to heaven to experience the good things Jehovah has promised? as John 6/68 says- who shall we go away to? you have sayings of everlasting life!
Organisation
I think I should clarify my feelings on this. Firstly, I would like to say that I’m only searching for the truth which I know to be in Jesus. If an idea doesn’t seem credible to me, then I reserve my feelings on it. Also, I respect what anyone else believes, whoever they are.
I think I should start with the point you mentioned about the Bereoans. What a good role model they were. I have been taught a lot as a JW but I think it would be both wise and prudent to ‘carefully examine the scriptures’ which were used to see ‘whether these things are so’, just like the Bereoans did (Acts 17:11 -12). This scripture shows that such an attitude is good for a Christian. I have always had this attitude even as a young person. If I cannot see scripture which backs up statement, then I would always reserve my feelings on whether it is true or not.
I also believe Jehovah has an organisation. He is clearly organised and he always has been. He organised Noah to build and ark, he organised Moses to lead his people, and there are many other examples as the bible clearly points out. If you didn’t follow who Jehovah was using at the time then you were screwed basically. As the scriptures point out in the New Testament, Jesus was the new arrangement and covenant. The scriptures CLEARLY point out that salvation is through Jesus and that ANYONE who calls on his name will be saved – The running theme throughout the entire New Testament. In my trying to emulate the Bereoans, after scrupulous research, the following scriptures testify to this fact (I’m sure you will see why I like the book of John):
Matthew 20:28
Matthew 26:28
John 1:12
John 1:29
John 3:15-16
John 3:36
John 4:14
John 5:24
John 6:40
John 6:44-48
John 6:51
John 6:68-69
John 8:12
John 8:24
John 8:51
John 10:9
John 10:28
John 11:25-26
John 12:44-46
John 14:6
John 17:3
John 20:31
Acts 4:12
Acts 10:34-36
Acts 10:42-43
Acts 13:38-39
Acts 15:11
Acts 16:30-31
Romans 1:16
Romans 2:7
Romans 3:22-30
Romans 5:8-9
Romans 6:23
Romans 10:9-13
1 Corinthians 3:11
2 Corinthians 5:21
Galatians 3:24
Ephesians 1:7
Ephesians 2:8-9
Colossians 1:21-22
Colossians 2:13-14
1 Thessalonians 5:9-10
Titus 2:11-14
Titus 3:5
Philemon 3:9
1 Timothy 2:5-6
2 Timothy 1:9
1 Peter 1:8-9
1 Peter 1:18-19
1 Peter 3:18
1 John 1:7-9
1 John 2:1-2
1 John 2:12
1 John 4:11-16
1 John 5:9-12
I’m sure you don’t doubt ANY of these scriptures. I think it’s interesting to note that Jesus never said that people had to be part of a congregation or organisation to be saved. He and his disciples distinctly made it clear that salvation was through Jesus and Jesus ALONE! I certainly believe however, that Jesus has a congregation of which he is the head (Acts 20:28 , Ephesians 1:22-23, Ephesians 2:19-22). If all the scriptures listed above are so adamant that ANYONE who believes that Jesus is the ONE AND ONLY means of salvation, then it makes sense that they are united with him in his congregation.
I suppose it depends on whether you think that the congregation of Jesus Christ is literal, figurative or both. In Ephesians, Paul writes that the congregation IS the body of Christ (Ephesians 1:23 ). He later speaks of unity and oneness in the congregation (Ephesians 4:4-5). Personally I believe (as do bible scholars) that this congregation is figurative in the sense that those who sincerely put their faith in Jesus will be a part of it. If they put their faith in Jesus sacrifice then they are certainly united in Christ, God, Spirit, faith, belief and hope. Whether the congregation is literal or not, it is UNDENIABLE that ANYONE who exercises faith in Jesus will be saved regardless of their religion or church.
The original Christian church was set up for one purpose: to assist those members to put faith in Jesus Christ. They could meet there, discuss Jesus teachings, listen to its applications in their day and encourage each other (Hebrews 10:24 -25). Similarly today, churches and congregations around the world exist to provide support and encouragement to those who truly wish to follow Jesus and put faith in him. Whether they do or not is entirely their own business. These churches must understand that they only have the truth which they can distribute to their members (John 17:17 ). They are not themselves truth. Likewise, no church today is the means of salvation, but they have the means of salvation – having faith in Jesus. Like I said, whether they do or not is up to them and their members. I’m sure that out of the 2.2 billion Christians in this world and even the other major religions, they are being taught that salvation is through Jesus and are being helped in that respect. They have flaws but so de all religions and organisations.
The members of these churches must understand that all the scriptures in the New Testament which speak about salvation through Jesus are referring to individuals not groups of individuals. Each one will render his own account towards Jehovah (Romans 14:12 , 2 Corinthians 5:10 , Galatians 6:5), and if he has put faith in Jesus then he will be saved. Again these scriptures testify to the fact that being a part of an exclusive group means nothing to Jehovah – it is by your own personal actions and faith that you are saved.
After considering all these things many times, like the Bereoans, I tried to understand why the JW’s teach that we need to be in this organisation to be saved. I just can’t get my head around it after reading all the above scriptures which clearly DON ’T say such a thing. I can’t see any reason why Jesus and Jehovah would have suddenly changed their plans and decided to use a specific group as the new means of salvation. The bible clearly states in 1 Timothy 2:5 that Jesus is the ONLY mediator between God and man. The scripture does not speak about a group of men who would mediate between us and Jesus, yet that is what this organisation supposedly does.
Nonetheless, I don’t think that this means the JWs don’t have the truth because I believe they do. Many religions and churches in the world have both positive and negative points to them. I very much applaud the JWs for their preaching work as I think it’s very important. Likewise, I think its good they recognise Gods name. However, I believe it is incorrect to believe that they alone have the truth and no one else does. That is not what Jehovah purposed. Each member must make sure that he is putting faith in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and work along with that, if he wants salvation. As you rightly say, who else can we go to for he has saying of everlasting life (John 6:68).
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I HAVE JW'S IN MY LIVING ROOM RIGHT NOW!
by TimothyT ini looked out the window and saw a car that belongs to a jw couple who have come to see my dad.. i decided it was time for another cup of tea .
no response!
i made myself a cup of tea, and realised there were two cups just brewing, so i called into the living room: "dad are these drinks for **** and ****?
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TimothyT
HAHA! I looked out the window and saw a car that belongs to a JW couple who have come to see my dad.
I decided it was time for another cup of tea , so i decided to make my way downstairs and say hi.
No response! HAHA!!!
I made myself a cup of tea, and realised there were two cups just brewing, so i called into the living room: "Dad are these drinks for **** and ****?" He said yes... so i called out to them, "do you have milk and sugar?". Lol... well they responsed! HAHA!!!
My dad then came in and took the drinks into them. DAMN IT!!! I wanted to do it and see if they would look me in the eye and say thanks!
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Timmy xxx
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TimothyT
What a very good point. Its so funny when they say that the churches hide the meanings of the bible etc. I found that JWs did exactly the same thing.
When i started to do bible research and ask questions as to what the organisation was doing and what the bible said, i was told: 'you need to be careful because people might think you are an apostate.' EXCUSE ME?
Hypocritical is not strong enough a word.
Timmy xxx
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I have just finished the New Testament!
by TimothyT inalthough i was a jw for almost all my life, i have just finished reading the new testament for the first time.
i have been disfellowshipped for over 3 weeks and it has taken me those 3 weeks to get through it all.
i have really enjoyed it and i have learnt a lot.
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TimothyT
Leaving WT: I found exactly the same too. I enjoyed Galatians.
PSacramento: Johns gospel and his letters are certainly my favourites too. All i read in them is mercy and forgiveness. I also love Hebrews as it preaches the same message. :)
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I have just finished the New Testament!
by TimothyT inalthough i was a jw for almost all my life, i have just finished reading the new testament for the first time.
i have been disfellowshipped for over 3 weeks and it has taken me those 3 weeks to get through it all.
i have really enjoyed it and i have learnt a lot.
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TimothyT
Thanks everyone.
Quendi: HEHE! Its awesome that you like Psalms, Proverbs and Ecclesiastes. These are my fave books from the old testament too! :) I have PM'd you too.
Mummatron: The New Living Translation. Its flippin brilliant. I read Romans and Ephesians with it and found it incredibly easy. :)
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I have just finished the New Testament!
by TimothyT inalthough i was a jw for almost all my life, i have just finished reading the new testament for the first time.
i have been disfellowshipped for over 3 weeks and it has taken me those 3 weeks to get through it all.
i have really enjoyed it and i have learnt a lot.
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TimothyT
Although I was a JW for almost all my life, I have just finished reading the New Testament for the first time. I have been disfellowshipped for over 3 weeks and it has taken me those 3 weeks to get through it all. I have REALLY enjoyed it and I have learnt a lot. I must say that the bible's version of Christianity is much better than the JW's (Acts 5:29 ).
I would like to address one point after reading the NT - ORGANISATION!
When I was disfellowshipped, i HATED this word and i still do actually. I think the way the JW's speak about it is vile and I believe they need to get their facts straight by reading the bible contextually. Having said that, after reading the NT, I must say that in some ways I do agree with the term and its meanings. Here is how:
- Likewise, I certainly believe that God has 'organised' for his son to save all mankind. That much is made clear in almost every single book and letter in the NT (John 1:29 ).
- I agree that it would take ‘organisation’ in order to preach throughout the world. The apostles in the first century were ‘organised’ this way as we can read in Acts.
- I agree that God has always been 'organised' (1 Corinthians 14:33 ). He ‘organised’ Noah, Moses and many others to lead his people.
- I believe that God has an 'organisation', though I think a better term would be congregation. That congregation is the body of Christ who is the head, and those who have faith in him are a part of it (Ephesians 1:22 -23).
- I believe that Christians work best when they meet together and encourage one another (Hebrews 10:24 -25). This takes place all over the world in millions of Christian churches and congregations.
Here is what I don’t agree with:
- I believe the praise goes to God and his son Jesus NOT an ‘organisation’ which is simply there to facilitate helping people come to a close relationship with God and do his will. (Matthew 4:10)
- I don’t think anyone should overlook the importance of Jesus Christ and render his sacrifice as irrelevant and obsolete by giving way to strange new ideas, ie, that he would want us to join an exclusive group (Acts 10:24-35, Hebrews 13:8-9).
- The JW’s quote 1 Corinthians 1:10 and say that ‘such unity does not exist among the varied churches of Christendom’ (Reasoning Book p.283). They should read up to verse 13 to get the context. Paul is here talking about being united in belief in Christ. Almost all churches today are united in their belief that salvation is through Christ. It is the JW’s who are divided as they believe salvation is through an ‘organisation’.
- I don’t believe that Jesus would have a literal human congregation, but it is figurative in the sense that hundreds of millions are serving and praising Jesus united throughout the earth today (Ephesians 4:4-5). These people are believers; therefore they can be joined in worship.
I think that all JW’s should read the New Testament with an open mind and maybe they would realise that Jehovah today does have an ‘organisation’ but it isn’t exactly how the governing body are portraying it.
Jesus made no mention of a man made ‘organisation’ in the gospels. He is the head of the Christian congregation and ANYONE who puts their faith in him will be saved (John 3:16 ). It is not a matter of being part of an ‘organisation’. If Jesus had changed his mind then I’m sure he would have informed us.
Timmy xxx
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UK newspaper interest in "mentally diseased", any Witnesses want to come forward?
by cedars infollowing the recent activity surrounding the "mentally diseased" apostate article, a major uk newspaper has expressed an interest in covering the story.
the correspondent as been told about this forum, and he is particularly interested in hearing from those inside the organisation, as i think few people are aware of how much unrest there is actually within witness ranks at the teachings of the society.. would anybody like to be used as a source, either anonymously or otherwise?
if so, it might be worthwhile saying a few words on this thread.
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TimothyT
I was raised a Jehovah's Witness and was recently excommunicated because I am a homosexual. The Jehovah's Witnesses claim to follow the bible and the loving, merciful teachings of Jesus Christ, yet they are quick to slander and excommunicate those who have opposing views, brandishing them with such terms as 'mentally diseased'. Not only do I find this sad and inappropriate, but the bible also clearly condemns such behaviour. It is shocking to think of the influence that these so called ‘Christians’ are having on those they preach to. Certainly, inciting hatred towards those who have differing views seems to be on the agenda.