Posts by LittleToe

37

Is this the BEST of all POSSIBLE WORLDS? Depends on this...!

by Terry in

if humanity were created by a supreme being who was essentially good wouldn't this be the best of all possible worlds?.

both adam and eve lacked what they desired most.

how is that the best of all possible worlds?.

LittleToe

OpenMind:

Am I calling this one right Gentlemen?

Aye, although that having been said, AuldSoul hits the nail on the head by commenting regarding Terry's method:

...he is cherry picking, from his own reference, data which supports a conclusion he arrived at independently of that reference...

Trevor:

Well put. I especially liked this comment, especially the biot that I've bolded:

A lot of your threads emphasis that there is only one actual reality. This is true in a scientific way but we all build our own paradigm of the world in our own minds and see any criticism of our belief or world view as a threat.

I would posit that not one of us truly sees "reality", far less is able to explain/express it.

Terry:

Allah makes pots and some of them are only worth breaking! Allah is..um..shall we say...inconsistant and you'd damned well better not complain about it.

This is IMHO one of your better points. With no rancour, my question remains as to why this is so, however? I would put it down to the subjective nature of the writers, wherein everything is accounted to God or the Devil, even where they have no direct hand in the event in question.

37

Is this the BEST of all POSSIBLE WORLDS? Depends on this...!

by Terry in

if humanity were created by a supreme being who was essentially good wouldn't this be the best of all possible worlds?.

both adam and eve lacked what they desired most.

how is that the best of all possible worlds?.

LittleToe

Terry:

Why don't you tell me which particular God we are discussing here...

You mean there's more than one?

My argument is often not that there's more than one God, but just that there's more than one subjective perception of Him leading to a variety of opinions. Unfortunately folks can get a bit antsy about owning their "creator", leading to all sorts of cat fights. Its a little bit like the two little boys arguing in the playground that their dad is better than the other's, without realising that they have the same dad by different mothers.

...and clarify your sources and we can continue.

Personal experience, supported by the comparative experiences of a number of others (as occasionally found in musty tomes). I've had no voices telling me I must go and kill someone

If God is your father he is the Parent of you, but; not your human parent.

I agree, but I still question the validity of using it as a direct analogy.

74

Do Muslems and Christains have the same God?

by Undecided in

jw
friends

the koran and the bible says to do the same acts of violence to anyone who worships a different god.. deuteronomy 13:6-8, it reads: "if thy brother, the son of thy mother.

or thy son, or thy daughter, or thy wife of thy bosom.

or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; (7) namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth unto the other end of the earth (8) thou shalt not consent unto him, nor harken unto him; neither shalt thou conceal him (9) but thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people.

LittleToe

To take the verse in deuteronomy out of context would leave you with only an ancient Israelite command and they were a bloodthirsty lot. The "same God" comment, in that context would refer to Muslim and Israelite faiths, not Christian, though the Christian religion has its own bloody history. That having been said I agree with Nic's first post, wherein he states that war would be reduced markedly (but not eliminated) by a reduction in religion. Wherever mankind has an idealogy to stand behind they can be the most brute of beast.

Merry:
Long time no see. Hope you are well.

Just a single rider to your comments, as told me by several Muslim friends - I am informed that there is a corporate responsibility thing in the Islamic mentality. Where Jihad has been proclaimed there is a war that is conducted at least in one place on earth and every opposer is classed as an unbeliever. Hence American unbelievers on American soil are all classed as opposers and are fair game for the current conflicts. The only staying hand, aside from sensibilities, is that war is being conducted on Iraqi soil and so the communal responsibility to take action "somewhere" is being fulfilled leaving the rest of the worldwide Islamic community to have a free conscience to live their day-to-day lives normally.

37

Is this the BEST of all POSSIBLE WORLDS? Depends on this...!

by Terry in

if humanity were created by a supreme being who was essentially good wouldn't this be the best of all possible worlds?.

both adam and eve lacked what they desired most.

how is that the best of all possible worlds?.

LittleToe

Terry:

And call no man your father upon the earth, for ONE is your FATHER which is in heaven.

Doesn't that make it abundantly clear that in Jesus view "God" could not be identified with human parents?

37

Is this the BEST of all POSSIBLE WORLDS? Depends on this...!

by Terry in

if humanity were created by a supreme being who was essentially good wouldn't this be the best of all possible worlds?.

both adam and eve lacked what they desired most.

how is that the best of all possible worlds?.

LittleToe

Terry:

God speaks for Himself, doesn't he?

Does He? In what manner? Is this an anti-sales pitch for "Bible God"?

His wisdom pours out of the text, does it not?

You make assumptions regarding the level of credance I give to musty tomes

You quote the book of Proverbs (which makes no claim to have been spoken by God) and Deuteronomy (which are the claims of one man commonly known as Moses). Can you verify that either of these sources were constructed at the instigation of, and expressed the will of, "God"?

54

DO YOU know how to be WRONG?? Should you TRY?

by Terry in

jw
friends

a willingness to be wrong is the beginning of intellectual honesty.. are you willing?.

it hurts to be wrong.

it is often humiliating.

LittleToe

Terry:
Interesting thread, marred only by your obsessional insertion of a rail against belief.

You appear to be missing Didier's point (Narkissos), especially in his last post. The only reason logic can have an semblence of a chance of succeeding in the real world is by dint of our abilities to "pattern-seek". Were it not for that "sets" would not exist at all and logic would have no basis to proceed from one "example" to another, as every instance of anything would be individual and unique, leading to an inability to recreate a hypothesis.

37

Is this the BEST of all POSSIBLE WORLDS? Depends on this...!

by Terry in

if humanity were created by a supreme being who was essentially good wouldn't this be the best of all possible worlds?.

both adam and eve lacked what they desired most.

how is that the best of all possible worlds?.

LittleToe

I honestly can't be arsed debating the subject but I would like to throw a few spanners into the works of your argumentation, for the sake of peer review

Firstly, how many different ways can a single individual dream up to attack a strawman "god"? Secondly, you presuppose a lot regarding individuals thoughts, feelings and desires, be those of Adam, Eve, or God.

IF humanity were created by a Supreme Being who was essentially good wouldn't this be the best of all possible worlds?

If this is your opening premise then you are also essentially inferring that all scientists involved in animal cognitive testing are a bunch of psychologically aberrant individuals.

endangering your children so that you can rescue them.

You're making an assumption that attempts to pull at the emotional strings of your readers, by invoking a scenario involving kids. It would assume that we were "children" in every human sense that we are aware of, and that "God" is somehow a parent in the same manner.

I'm guessing your childhood involved no similar games with toys or pets

78

UNDENIABLE LOGIC. Some cherish it while others dismiss it. Which are you?

by nicolaou in

there are so many ways to get into this topic; homeopathy, astrology, feng shui, alien abductions, seances and so on ad nauseum but let's pick a simple one - mathematics.

do you accept the undeniable logic that 1+1 must always equal 2?.

i cannot conceive of a situation where 1+1=3 but there was a time when i did!

LittleToe

Nic:

I know I could be wrong, completely and utterly, yet I have this drive to share what I've learned. Am I supposed to repress that? Quell it for the sake of ...what?

Such is the dilemma of someone who is certain (in absolute terms) that they must be uncertain, and yet has the emotive zeal to spread what little they think they know. That's one of the difficulties with education. The more you know, the more you come to realise how little you know

Terry:

I really don't mean to be personally insulting...

Oh please!!! Do behave, won't you! You know perfectly well that your full intention is to be insulting. Lets not obfuscate the matter with a veil of supercillious pseudo-sincerity!

syllogism

I see you've reached "S" in that dictionary toilet paper. Good stuff - "T for Theology" is just a few wanks away.

Deaf people shouldn't be music critics.

I agree, just as people without "faith" shouldn't be theology critics

5go:Gotta love inrfinity, huh?

78

UNDENIABLE LOGIC. Some cherish it while others dismiss it. Which are you?

by nicolaou in

there are so many ways to get into this topic; homeopathy, astrology, feng shui, alien abductions, seances and so on ad nauseum but let's pick a simple one - mathematics.

do you accept the undeniable logic that 1+1 must always equal 2?.

i cannot conceive of a situation where 1+1=3 but there was a time when i did!

LittleToe

Nic:

I once apologised for being a 'proselytiser for atheism', that may have been a mistake.

It wasn't a mistake. It acknowledged that our personal logic can be flawed, premises can be untrue and compassion should still be a part of the process regardless of the strength of belief. The mistake would have been if you'd apologised for attempting to use logic...

10

So my college gives me an advanced class when it should be beginners!!!

by FreedomFrog in

jw
friends

i'm about to pull my hair out with it.

i'm frustrated because i'm working my arse off with this class and still maybe will pass with a d. i've called the counselors, teachers and other students.

axia (my college branch from phoenix) will be changing it but not until after we complete this course.

LittleToe

Few folks can calculate Net Present Value off the top of their heads. The only reason I got good grades in a similar exam was by lucking out and cramming a few such things the night before the exam

If you can learn where to find the answers that you don't understand then you will have learnt the most important lesson. Meanwhile, try not to sweat it too much