Posts by Kitledge

3

Why Talking to Jehovah's Witnesses is Hard.

by runForever in

jw
friends

when we are talking to a jehovah's witness we might think we are talking facts with them but we are not.

they are looking through a lense.

of assumed facts they have already concluded as true.

Kitledge

Engaging a JW in a sincere discussion is usually one-sided- they are right and we (non-JWs) are wrong, regardless of those little inconvenient things called facts. At their meetings and in their literature, they are incessantly indoctrinated with what they refer to as the "truth" and these ideas are reinforced in their minds everytime they are gathered together. That these doctrines are 'fluid', that is, subject to change and/or revisions, makes no difference. They remain "truth" even though such teachings might have been structurally gutted and re-structured in a new form.

On that basis alone, it is impossible to have a productive discussion as their minds are closed to other viewpoints. A closed mind is a terrible thing to waste.

31

Why do ultra rich jehovahs witnesses get a free pass when it comes to being materialistic?

by hoser in

jw
friends

i know a couple of jws in my town that are both very wealthy.

one has upscale retail stores and owns a property development company.

the other has a large service company and owns a lot of real estate.

Kitledge

Generally speaking, most JWs are just getting by earning a living. Some are downright "dirt-poor" in some areas.

Lacking any meaningful education beyond high school, most JWs, in my 23+ years experience, earn their living working in "blue-collar type jobs: construction, cleaning, manufacturing plants etc... and typically paid on an hourly basis which may or may not provide a living wage. Oftentimes, wives may be required to work (cleaning, waitress etc.. jobs, typically) if only to make ends meet. Fewer others may have salaried positions while employed in "white-collar" type jobs, usually office work, of one type or another.

So, as a result of traditional WT policies against the pursuit of higher learning and its emphasis on preaching in these "last days", ultra-wealthy JWs are a rarity in most congregations. Again, based on my experience, those that did become wealthy (either through hard work or via an inheritance) are secretly admired for their nice clothes, cars, homes etc... Less affluent JWs tend to be drawn to such ones if only for their own wishful materialistic desires and also to possibly benefit from their "largess", in some fashion or another. It also tends to make any JW look good in the eyes of other "hanging" out with these wealthy JWs. It's all superficial and banal, in my view.

That such wealthy JWs receive a "free pass" is self-explanatory. No elder(s) is going to counsel a wealthy JW for being "too wealthy" while receiving large sums of donations via the contribution box each and every month. The comment of "green handshakes" is very common especially with visiting CO's & DO's who themselves are usually strapped for cash, relying on the local congregations to keep them 'afloat'. The wealthier JWs tend to get more "hang time" with these visiting WT "dignitaries" than less fortunate JWs.

As the expression goes "Bull walks, money talks". And, as Cuba Gooding Jr once famously said, "Show me the money!" In other words, it always has been and always will be all about the $$$$.

26

When You Look Back At The History of Jehovah's Witnesses/Russelites---Has Anything Really Changed?

by minimus in

they have been, from their inception, a sect that was considered different from mainstream christianity.

they loved being different.

they bragged about being "persecuted.

Kitledge

Generally speaking, during Russell's time, congregations were basically autonomous, i.e. electing their own bodies of elders, ministerial servants and the such. Control from Bethel was minimal, and was usually guided around the Watchtower magazine and Russell's own published writings (books). Today's Bible Students, i.e. Associated, International etc..., continue this tradition of autonomy based on Russell's writings.

Rutherford, on the other hand, systematically reversed this autonomous system, changing it into a highly controlling one, all orchestrated from Brooklyn Bethel. Entire Bodies of Elders were removed and replaced by elders appointed by Bethel's "gulag". Needless to say, this type of intrusive high-handedness was rejected by many of the Bible Students and droves of them formally separated themselves from the WT Org.

NOTE: William J. Schnell's book, "30 Years a Watchtower Slave", delves into this historical development in great detail which features the German congregations and the local Branch office as the 'test case', circa the 20's/30's era. A fascinating read!

Since the early 1960's (when I began to associate with the WT org), the Society has "turned the ratchet" to progressively increase and demand the congregation's absolute allegiance to the "Mother Org" and, more specifically in recent times, to its Governing Body. This 'loyalty' to the Org, enforced by threats of punitive judicial actions, including DF'ing typically resulting in separation from family members, creates fear and paranoia within congregation members. Constructive criticism or questioning of WT policies and/or teachings are not tolerated leading to an Orwellian state of affairs.

So, yes, things have definitely changed, from bad to worse!

48

The Apostasy Within

by Ultimate Axiom in

in the latest watchtower (july 15, 2014, page 14, paragraph 10) it says; today, jehovahs people are not often confronted with apostasy within the congregation.

still, when exposed to unscriptural teachings, regardless of the source, we must decisively reject them.. so, not often, but occasionally jws are exposed to apostasy within the congregation, and they are instructed to decisively reject it.

as we all know, the vast majority of the apostasy they are exposed to comes from the governing body.. i am meeting up soon with an old friend from the 1970s who i havent seen for decades, who is still an active jw, and who would really like to hear what i think about things.

Kitledge

Oh my! Where does one begin?..... Here's a few more:

1. blood issue, i.e. prohibiting transfusions while allowing the use of blood factions

2. extreme shunning, even by other JW family members, when DF'd or DA'd

3. formal door-to-door preaching work, i.e. free home "Bible" studies as a guise for studies of WT literature.

4. 607 BC to 1914 CE interpretation (Book of Daniel)

5. Faithful & Discreet Slave teaching:

greater reverence for GB than for Jesus Christ

absolute, unquestioning allegiance to WT doctrines/teachings, regardless of whether right or wrong

no salvation outside the WT/GB

These unscriptural teachings and many others are the product, not of the Holy Spirit, but entirely the product of humanism & legalism. It took 23+ years of serving the interests of the ORG to finally realize that fact....

28

When a Jehovah's Witness asks "When are you coming back to the Truth"

by Watchtower-Free in

apostate & ex-jehovalarious meme collection.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/jwmeme/.

Kitledge

When it comes to Watchtower's fluid "truth", it can be said that "yesterday's truth is not today's truth and tomorrow's truth will not be today's truth".

With regards to the Tower's liberal use of its magic elixir, "new light" (Prov 4:18), anyone that has read the entire 4th chapter of Proverbs will quickly see that it has nothing to do with progressive revelations of truth, containing only wise counsel from father to his son. Obviously, most JW's have not read this text as they continue to swallow whole the gibberish flowing out of Brooklyn without any critical thinking whatsoever. Thus the dilusion continues unabated.

Kitledge

58

Eccentric Jehovah's Witnesses

by snowbird in

jw
friends

so as not to hijack logcon's thread about crazy things jw's have said to householders, i'd like to start one about just plain old odd jw's.. for example, i knew this dear, dear senior brother who would carry a small bag of peanuts in one pocket of his suit coat and a small plastic bag of brown sugar in the other.. during that time, we would stay out all day long because the territory was extensive.. can't you just picture that precious soul alternately tossing a few peanuts/crumbs of sugar into his mouth as he schlepped from house to trailer, from trailer to house?.

the householders would usually offer us water, lemonade, kool-aid, or soda pops, so no problem with finding something to quench our thirsts.. those were the days!.

sylvia.

Kitledge

When I was young & residing in NY City, we attended the Tuesday night book study at an older couple's apartment in the neighborhood. Evidently, the sister had an on-going problem with flatulence. She would sit in an arm chair next to a small end table on which was a can of air freshener which she used liberally, spraying in every direction every 10-15 minutes while the study was being conducted. I don't recall that the meeting was held there very long....