Posts by losthobbit

One more thing... if you want to read a fictional story I wrote including an example of how a Resource Based Economy (The goal of the Venus Project) could be built, download my novel from: http://losthobbit.net/download.php

Or you can buy paperback or kindle versions from Amazon.com (search for "The Mischievous Nerd's Guide to World Domination").

26

The Zeitgeist Movement

by losthobbit in

jw
friends

just wondering if anyone here is a supporter of the zeitgeist movement?

it's not a religion, and it's not zeitgeist: the movie.

it's a group of people who want to eliminate the world's biggest problems by removing their root cause.

losthobbit

Hi Tammy

Thanks for clarifying. I can't answer on behalf of the Venus Project and tell you exactly how they intend to achieve their goals. You could try asking specific questions on the Zeitgeist Movement's forum if you like. I can only tell you my opinions, and why I support the Zeitgeist Movement.

I'm a software developer doing mostly prototype development. In a way all programmers are inventors. We're always building things that have never been made before.

When asked to build an application I don't know beforehand the exact details of how I'm going to do it, but I have a learned set of design principles that I use. I always start with a goal. My manager will tell me to build him something... like a program that allows one system to communicate with another. I then break down the problem into smaller problems, and each smaller problem into even smaller problems until all the problems are simplified into things I know how to do... but this could be hundreds of thousands of lines of code, each solving a tiny piece of the puzzle.

The Venus Project is based on principles like tackling the root cause of a problem, sustainability, environmental awareness, simplification, the scientific method, fairness, continuous improvement etc. To detail the exact method could mean millions of pages of information. This would be far too much to write now, and far too much for anyone to read.

As in my software development, I build prototypes. I start by building something simple. Once people have looked at the prototype I take the information gathered from other people, or testing, and progress it further, or scrap it, and work on something else.

This is how I'd like to see the Venus Project evolve, building simple things that work, and therefore creating interest, pushing it further.

A key component in all of this is what the Zeitgeist Movement calls "education". This is not necessarily sitting in a class room, listening to a teacher. Think of all the ways in which information comes into your mind: advertising, movies, books, talking to people, facebook, experience etc.

Some of the questions you've asked are better understood after reading or watching the videos that are linked to from the Zeitgeist Movement and Venus Project websites, but as I said earlier, the forum is a good place to ask specific questions.

The Venus project does not intend to force anyone to do anything. Those that don't like it can continue to live in this system. If, however, the Venus Project succeeds in achieving its' goals, then those who reject it will be a bit like the Amish living on the Enterprise :)

26

The Zeitgeist Movement

by losthobbit in

jw
friends

just wondering if anyone here is a supporter of the zeitgeist movement?

it's not a religion, and it's not zeitgeist: the movie.

it's a group of people who want to eliminate the world's biggest problems by removing their root cause.

losthobbit

Tammy, the goal is to have cities, like those defined on www.thevenusproject.com, in which the system, also defined on that site, can work.

Satanus, I love science, technology and automation. The more advanced we become, the less work there is to do. See google's work on automatic vehicle driving, as an example. If that becomes popular, we'll no longer need bus drivers or taxi drivers. That's fantastic, but not if you're a bus driver, or taxi driver. (This is I wrote 'I don't see how the current system can continue with the high, exponential rate of technological change - in this system peole need to have jobs in order to live.')

Technology progresses exponentially. In the last hundred years we've had more technological advances than in the last thousand. Every year we have more technological progress than the previous year. I don't think that many people really understand the word exponential, unless they see a graph, .... so take a look at the graphs on this page:

http://www.kurzweilai.net/the-law-of-accelerating-returns

What happens when your job is automated?

Have you ever wondered how many jobs exist to benefit humanity, verse those which exist simply to move money around the system?

For example: Doctors, Vets, Farmers exist for a good reason. Cashiers, bankers, accountants, estate agents, insurance salesmen, and pretty much anyone that works in business (not directly creating a unique product, or solving a real problem) exist simply to move money around the system. Even the majority of work done by lawyers and police exists simply because of money.

Consider if there were no governments, and only one business existed, which employed everyone, and produced one make of every required product. Firstly, we'd all have jobs, and secondly, we'd only have to work for an hour or two a day.

Using money to keep score only works if you have money to start off with. Even if you do, you have to constantly watch your money, and make sure you invest it in the right place, and that it's not stolen.

You wrote "The education that you talk about sounds like a referal to the movement's gospel, which still is not clear, to me." ... the FAQ's on the Venus Project's site should answer your question. And yes, by "education", I refer to educating people about the problems in the current system, and proposals to create a working system.

You wrote "If your system needs for a lot of people to dissappear..." What? Where do you get that idea from?

You wrote "For measures to be implemented, steps have to be set out CLEARLY, as in number one step, number two step, etc. If the movement's leader has not done that, if steps are not clear in your mind, that is a bad sign."

The Zeitgeist Movement up till recently existed as the activist arm for the Venus Project. The Venus Project has a series of steps:

See: http://www.thevenusproject.com/en/the-venus-project-introduction/aims-proposals

The goal of the Zeitgeist Movement was simply to spread awareness of the Venus Project, so that they could achieve their goals.

The leader of the Venus Project is 95 year old Jacque Fresco. He's been working on this project for most of his life... that's a long time. Unfortunately he seems to have a bit of a problem working well with people these days, and Peter (founder of ZM) has disagreed with him regarding phase 2. For this reason, the ZM is now independent of the Venus Project, but still advocating their ideas. This change happened very recently, and I'm looking forward to Peter's plan to set up a NPO for research. As time goes on I believe we'll have a better idea as to how the transition is going to happen.

Until then, I don't have a better way of trying to help resolve the major problems in the world. If you do, please tell me.

26

The Zeitgeist Movement

by losthobbit in

jw
friends

just wondering if anyone here is a supporter of the zeitgeist movement?

it's not a religion, and it's not zeitgeist: the movie.

it's a group of people who want to eliminate the world's biggest problems by removing their root cause.

losthobbit

The movement would not have existed without the movie, but the movement is not about the movie... if that makes sense. Most people in the movement that I talk to don't believe everything in Zeitgeist: The Movie. The latest movie, "Zeitgeist: Moving Forward" is more in line with the movement than the others were. It shows the founder / film maker's maturity, as he goes from making a rather inaccurate movie, to one which is far more intelligent.

I recommend watching this lecture, by Peter Joseph: http://vimeo.com/7857584

People either seem to love an ideology, or hate it. For me, I don't see how the current system can continue with the high, exponential rate of technological change... the two are simply not compatible.

My opinion... try it, and see if it works. If it doesn't work, try something else. I think we should keep trying different things, until we find a system that works.

OutlawWilly, you seem very offended by what I said. I did not mean to offend you. My only point was that when you weigh up trying to make the world a better place against the problem of seeing posters that you don't like, there really is no comparison.

PSacramento, I believe I answered your question in my second post above?

Mad Sweeny, the concept of the founder, Peter Joseph, being the leader, is not quite as simple as that. People look up to him, because he started the movement, and made the movies, but he's introverted, under a lot of pressure, and tries to get other people to lead.

Anyway, looks like I've thrown the cat amongst the pigeons... but I'm glad to see that people are googling it. Try and see this from an unbiased point of view, and decide for yourself what you think.

26

The Zeitgeist Movement

by losthobbit in

jw
friends

just wondering if anyone here is a supporter of the zeitgeist movement?

it's not a religion, and it's not zeitgeist: the movie.

it's a group of people who want to eliminate the world's biggest problems by removing their root cause.

losthobbit

20571pnt428571, I didn't understand everything you said. You used big words, and long sentences. I found it strange that you mentioned the NWO, at the end of your post. I don't know what "NWO diffusion device, and globalist profiler 'fly strip' for future 'filtration'" means, but the New World Order is just a conspiracy theory which has been applied to everyone from aliens to the UN over many decades. I don't know how anyone can take the conspiracy theory seriously anymore.

26

The Zeitgeist Movement

by losthobbit in

jw
friends

just wondering if anyone here is a supporter of the zeitgeist movement?

it's not a religion, and it's not zeitgeist: the movie.

it's a group of people who want to eliminate the world's biggest problems by removing their root cause.

losthobbit

To answer Satanus' question:

The root causes of war, most crime, poverty, forced labour (required stressful work), pollution and waste of resources are: the current money system, hundreds of separate countries each working toward their own goals, and too many decisions based on prejudices and beliefs, rather than using the scientific method (testing).

How they propose to solve these problems: the ultimate goal is to have a system in place which replaces the current system. The new system will be something like The Venus Project (Not something I can explain in one sentence... see www.thevenusproject.com). At the moment the Zeitgeist Movement is focused on learning, education and growing. Over the past three years the Zeigeist Movement has grown to about 500,000 members, but Peter Joseph (the founder), does not believe we can change the world until we have the support of about 100 million people (about a seventieth of the world).

In other words, they have a very clearly defined goal, which is continually being refined, but are not entirely sure about how they will get there, or how long it will take. I like to relate their ideas to Thomas Edison, the inventor of the light bulb. He invented hundreds of light bulbs that didn't work... he didn't know how to make a light bulb, but kept trying, knowing what his ultimate goal was.

OutlawWilly, one of my biggest peeves was the number of people who were murdered in my neighbourhood, making me move to a safer country. You must live a fantastically sheltered life, if one of your biggest peeves is posters.

26

The Zeitgeist Movement

by losthobbit in

jw
friends

just wondering if anyone here is a supporter of the zeitgeist movement?

it's not a religion, and it's not zeitgeist: the movie.

it's a group of people who want to eliminate the world's biggest problems by removing their root cause.

losthobbit

Just wondering if anyone here is a supporter of the Zeitgeist Movement? It's not a religion, and it's not Zeitgeist: The Movie. It's a group of people who want to eliminate the world's biggest problems by removing their root cause. I'm curious because I think there are a lot of independent thinkers on this forum, who would probably be interested in supporting it. Any thoughts?

Here's their mission statement:

MISSION STATEMENT [Updated April 24th '11]

Founded in 2008, The Zeitgeist Movement is a Sustainability Advocacy Organization which conducts community based activism and awareness actions through a network of Global/Regional Chapters, Project Teams, Annual Events, Media and Charity Work.

The Movement's principle focus includes the recognition that the majority of the social problems which plague the human species at this time are not the sole result of some institutional corruption, scarcity, a political policy, a flaw of "human nature" or other commonly held assumptions of causality in the activist community. Rather, The Movement recognizes that issues such as poverty, corruption, collapse, homelessness, war, starvation and the like appear to be "Symptoms" born out of an outdated social structure.

While intermediate Reform steps and temporal Community Support are of interest to The Movement, the defining goal here is the installation of a new socioeconomic model based upon technically responsible Resource Management, Allocation and Distribution through what would be considered The Scientific Method of reasoning problems and finding optimized solutions.

This "Resource-Based Economic Model” is about taking a direct technical approach to social management as opposed to a Monetary or even Political one. It is about updating the workings of society to the most advanced and proven methods Science has to offer, leaving behind the damaging consequences and limiting inhibitions which are generated by our current system of monetary exchange, profits, corporations and other structural and motivational components.

The Movement is loyal to a train of thought, not figures or institutions. In other words, the view held is that through the use of socially targeted research and tested understandings in Science and Technology, we are now able to logically arrive at societal applications which could be profoundly more effective in meeting the needs of the human population. In fact, so much so, that there is little reason to assume war, poverty, most crimes and many other money-based scarcity effects common in our current model cannot be resolved over time.

The range of The Movement's Activism & Awareness Campaigns extend from short to long term. The long term view, which is the transition into a Resource-Based Economic Model, is a constant pursuit and expression, as stated before. However, in the path to get there, The Movement also recognizes the need for transitional Reform techniques, along with direct Community Support.

For instance, while "Monetary Reform" itself is not an end solution proposed by The Movement, the merit of such legislative approaches are still considered valid in the context of transition and temporal integrity. Likewise, while food and clothes drives and other supportive projects to help those in need today is also not considered a long term solution, it is still considered valid in the context of helping others in a time of need, while also drawing awareness to the principle goal.

The Zeitgeist Movement also has no allegiance to a country or traditional political platforms. It views the world as a single system and the human species as a single family and recognizes that all countries must disarm and learn to share resources and ideas if we expect to survive in the long run. Hence, the solutions arrived at and promoted are in the interest to help everyone on the planet Earth, not a select group.

18

Should the GB be charged with crimes against humanity?

by punkofnice in

i get really angry when i think of how the gb have callously allowed lives to be ruined.

protected child molesters.

caused deaths because of a weird blood doctrine.

losthobbit

I am by no means an expert in law... but it seems to me that the concept of religion has nothing to do with laws against the governing body.

Let me see if I can explain:

An athiest is bound by the law.

A religious person is bound by the law and their religion.

So it seems that a religion doesn't have any special rights (athiests have more rights than religions), and it's probably best to think about this as people vs. people, rather than people vs. a religion / religious group.

The GB's only weapon is words. Perhaps they could be sued for libel, or something similar?

Personally I think the whole legal system is far too complex. There should be one law... be nice. If you're not nice, you go to jail! :)

22

I also have questions about field service...

by losthobbit in

i never was a jw, so please excuse my lack of knowledge here.... after reading some posts on this forum it seems i've realized that i don't fully understand what field service is.

it seems that field service is the following (and please correct me):.

- something jw's have to do for a specific number of hours per month.

losthobbit

Sure thing, Snakeface... let's see, I have five loaves... and ah, two fishes. That ought to be enough. You're all invited to my place for a meal :)