Knowsnothing

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Posts by Knowsnothing

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  70

  The Small Quiet Voice

  by Satanus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you hear it?

  not talking about voices.

  i'm talking about that little niggling thing, on the side.

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  Knowsnothing

  You mean our conscience? It's good to meditate about life and where you are going periodically, regardless of if you are religious or not.
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  418

  Who has experienced a REAL demonic incident?

  by Monsieur in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  has anybody here experienced a bonafide, real, true incident in whicy 'demons' actually interacted with you or did something 'supernatural' that left you convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that satan and his demons exist??.

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  Knowsnothing

  Why aren't demon attacks universal? Not saying it can't happen, just curious.
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  8

  May 2013 Awake"No sooner had I finished praying and there was a nock at my door"

  by trujw in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i guess you need a door for god to answer your prayers.. .

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  Knowsnothing

  The article is just another example of manipulation of the JW’s mind. They are trying to infer that god sent the women a JW to the door. It amazes me that the most powerful, loving, kind god of the all the universe would answer this middle class well to do woman’s prayer while ignoring the cries of innocent children. If cherry picking stories was a sport JW’s would have the gold medal. - trujw

  Hmmm... maybe this bible quote will clear things up?

  Matthew 26:11

  The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me.
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  22

  Refuting Robin Collins argument for fine-tuning

  by bohm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have lately tried to rethink my position on gods existence and tried to be more critical of the atheistic position.

  this has partly been spurned by my impression objections to theistic arguments often rely on the same errors atheist accuse theists of, for instance using the shotgun-method (i.e.

  picking 3 faults with all premises in the arguments) or building conclusion on a web of arguments and, when considering a particular argument, supporting it by other parts of the web or simply not addressing the argument very well.. as part of this i came across collins 1999 article on fine-tuning.

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  Knowsnothing

  An excerpt from section 5.2:

  As Richard Swinburne has argued (2004, pp. 99–106), since God is perfectly good,
  omniscient, omnipotent, and perfectly free, the only motivation God has for bringing about
  one state of affairs instead of another is its relative (probable) contribution to the overall
  moral and aesthetic value of reality.37 Simple forms of life, such as bacteria, do not seem
  in and of themselves to contribute to the overall moral value of reality, although it is possible
  that they might contribute to its overall aesthetic value. On the other hand, embodied
  moral agents seem to allow for the realization of unique types of value. Hence, it is this
  form of life that is most relevant for arguing that ~P(Lpc|k′ & T) << 1, and thus the most
  relevant for the fine-tuning argument.

  Just by reading this, it's hard to not be dismissive and simply call this bullshit, but I will try to make the effort. This is essentially arguing specifically that because humans exist and are moral agents, they add relevance to the fine-tuning argument.

  The interesting thing about morality in a physical universe, and especially for humans on earth (since we are the only moral agents we know of), is that it is based on economy, whether we like it or not. Some examples to clarify: the rich giving to the poor, and the attempt to cure diseases and help those who suffer can be seen as moral goods, yet the fact remains that is so because resources are not limitless, and so there always the haves and the have-nots. What other morality do we know of, except the one tied in with the physical, mental, and emotional well-being of humans? Again, I am forced to invoke the problem of evil, but in a special classification. The problem of evil is inherent in a physical, limited universe! Let's be more specific. The planet earth, upon which humans live on, and the only known planet known thus far to sustain life, is very limited in its vital resources, further exacerbating the problem. Resources are not limitless, hence perpetual cycle of the haves and the have-nots, and the only way to attain any so called moral transaction!

  Without scarcity, without sacrifice, without pain and evil, there seems to be no basis for morality, at least as far as this Christian theist version goes. So, essentially the argument is pain and evil must exist in order for morality to exist, and that that in no way invalidates a fine-tuned universe? Well, that just opens up another whole can of worms. What makes Collin's assertions valid over any other theistic model? Haven't we observed that religion is wholly subjective and interpretive?

  Bohm, in regards to this comment:

  With regard to the initial low-entropic state of the early universe: I think the most important thing to realize is what physics actually governed that phase of the universe is largely unknown, not just in terms of conditions but the actual laws. My guess is largely uninformed, but i think that to get any progress on the question one would need first to get an accurate description of how gravity work on those levels, and thats properly decades in the future.

  As that is Collin's strongest argument, and the initial conditions of the universe are still largely unknown, it is yet another appeal to the god of the gaps. So for me, it appears his strongest argument is not strong at all.
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  32

  Why Worry About Stopping Comets?

  by AGuest in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  given their relative size (usually), maybe we should learn to stop meteors first:.

  http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/16/world/europe/meteorite-fragments-are-said-to-rain-down-on-siberia.html?_r=0.

  interesting.. a doulos of christ,.

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  Knowsnothing

  Why not just let god intervene? Surely he wouldn't allow earth to be destroyed, one of his crowning creations?
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  160

  I've Come To Realize That "Facts" Don't Mean Much If A Person Refuses To Accept Them

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ...and that applies to religion as well as politics.. if someone simply believes such and such is true, it doesn't really matter whether you "prove" it or not.

  people will believe what they want to believe..

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  Knowsnothing

  2+2=5. If you've ever read 1984, you'll realize that while there are objective facts, independent of our observations or beliefs, there are socially created facts. Socially created facts sounds oxymoronic, because it is. The point is, as your OP mentions, if a person is obstinate in their POV, they will refuse to change their mind to any new information, or at least attempt to justify the new information that contradicts their belief.

  Societal norms/ideas/culture/religion are very powerful constrictions upon the human mind, yet ironically, where would we be without them?
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  22

  Refuting Robin Collins argument for fine-tuning

  by bohm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have lately tried to rethink my position on gods existence and tried to be more critical of the atheistic position.

  this has partly been spurned by my impression objections to theistic arguments often rely on the same errors atheist accuse theists of, for instance using the shotgun-method (i.e.

  picking 3 faults with all premises in the arguments) or building conclusion on a web of arguments and, when considering a particular argument, supporting it by other parts of the web or simply not addressing the argument very well.. as part of this i came across collins 1999 article on fine-tuning.

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  Knowsnothing

  I think fine tuning fails mainly in regards to what you have already said, re: the eventual end of the universe. I suppose that's where theology takes over, and assumes divine intervention, but isn't that a type of special pleading? On the other hand, I see your concession on the not so trivial point of a low entropy starting point. In your opinion, is that something that can eventually be resolved by physics, or do you think in this regard we will be stuck in ignorance, having once again appeal to the god of the gaps? You also noted that the question of suffering is for a different discussion. I disagree. Saying that the universe is fine tuned for life by a creator is also saying the creator looked for life's wellbeing, else why create life at all? Anyways, thanks for your balanced look on this. I always enjoy discussing things with you.
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  125

  my worst fears were realized

  by magotan in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  im on my phone, so im really limited.

  i came out to my family about my doubts and my sexuality.

  shit hit the fan.

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  Knowsnothing

  I just wanted to say you are brave, and to hang in there. You can now begin to adjust to real life. Good thing Is you found a room mate.
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  32

  Governing Body Memes

  by jw07 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  are there any sites with collections of governing body memes?

  i see memes as a very effective way of getting the truth about the truth across without lengthy debate.

  an effective meme is point and shoot since comedy holds the attention, jolts logic, is memorable, and is more likely to be viral.. something like this: http://t.qkme.me/3674l2.jpg.

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  Knowsnothing
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  32

  Governing Body Memes

  by jw07 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  are there any sites with collections of governing body memes?

  i see memes as a very effective way of getting the truth about the truth across without lengthy debate.

  an effective meme is point and shoot since comedy holds the attention, jolts logic, is memorable, and is more likely to be viral.. something like this: http://t.qkme.me/3674l2.jpg.

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  Knowsnothing