Knowsnothing

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Posts by Knowsnothing

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  87

  Evolution Gap - Where's the Fur?

  by shadow in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  evolution paints human ancestors covered with fur.

  fur has several benefits as stated by britannica "the pelts of fur-bearing animals are called true furs when they consist of two elements: a dense undercoat, called ground hair, and longer hairs, extending beyond that layer, called guard hair.

  the principal function of ground hair is to maintain the animal’s body temperature; that of guard hair is to protect the underlying fur and skin and to shed rain or snow.".

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  Knowsnothing

  Shadow, the same argument would apply to special creation. Why didn't Jehovah create us with fur if it offers us advantages?

  And if God did design us why didn't he, for example, design us with the ability to produce vitamin c?
  
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  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

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  Knowsnothing

  Christians also believe in the spiritual realm which was also created as well. In this 'nature', there is no suffering, yet there is still choice. Satan rebeled and would be cast from God's presence, but there is no inherent suffering in that realm. So why would god even create this physical realm, full of suffering and 'natural evil'?

  Thanks for this thread cofty, great stuff!
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  89

  Boeing 747s and Other Misunderstandings about Evolution

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  perhaps the most common misunderstanding that prevents people from grasping evolution is complexity.. we see it almost daily on the forum where people mention dna or the eye or any of a multititude of examples and ask how it could have arose "by blind chance"?.

  whenever you see a reference to chance and complexity it is obvious the person hasn't yet grasped the basics of the theory.

  chance is only one part of the process.

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  Knowsnothing

  To add to this great thread, here is the Lenski experiment (with the accompaning creationist fiasco), and how it's going so far. Here is another article on how it's going so far.

  I just want to thank cofty for his patience on teaching this subject. It is difficult and unbelievable to grasp at first, but if you are really thirsty for knowledge, you will keep searching and find the answers.

  As for the typewriter or computer analogy, perhaps there is a better illustration. I don't intend to say one, because of the limitations of analogies. All you have to remember is the accumulation of mutations that are sustained, sometimes because of fitness, sometimes random, always because of natural selection. The monkeys are typing away without any purpose in mind. The typewriter and the paper don't have a purpose either. But imagine this weird scenario. For the sake of comparing it to biological systems, imagine the paper gives 'birth' to a typewriter, and that the mutation that the paper first gained is now passed along to the typewriter, so that a key originally had is replaced with the 'mutation'. This 'mutation' is but a replica of another key. As an example, imagine your very own keyboard with which you write to communicate on this forum. The next keyboard that is replicated has a mutation, and your 'r' key is now a 'w'. Your keyboard now has 2 w's, and the monkey is now more likely to hit that w that will help complete the phrase you are looking for (the outside, non-participant observer). While you are looking on the outside, even though you look for a desired outcome, the process is random, and repeats itself multiple times. The outside observer in this case is the scientist, observing the experiment and looking to see how such complexity could have come about. The monkeys type away, the keyboards press upon the papers, the papers then 'spawn' the mutated keyboards which the monkeys type away at, again and again, some accumulating the mutation you, the non-participant observer, are looking for. Some generations of paper accumulate the mutations you are looking for, others do not. In fact, some harmful mutations prevent the keyboards from typing at all, and so all the accumulation of mutations for that particular keyboard end with that keyboard.

  Tying it in with the Lenski experiment, which I highly recommend you read about, as it introduces novel complexity through beneficial mutation accumulation, and once and for all trumps the 'irreducible complexity' argument, the keyboards finally are able to produce the sentence "Methinks it is like a weasel" on a paper. Many typewriters came and went, and so did many papers, but at the end, this particular 'strain' of keyboard/paper accumulated what was once thought irreducibly complex. They key (pun intended) is that each successive generation successful of reproduction passed on this beneficial mutation, and then the other one added another beneficial mutation, culminating in the final product.

  I could go on, but see how the analogy start to break down after a certain point? Even so, just because the analogies fail to grasp the total reality, they get us a little bit closer to understanding this seemingly complex process, to the point where you can see that, indeed, the accumulation of mutations. The important thing to understand is this is real life. Lenski mapped this process out from beggining to end. The e. coli bacteria had no way of metabolizing citrate before these mutations accumulated in its DNA. Then, all the right 'ingredients' came to together in one generation and, wham! The bacteria population that was now able to feed on citrate, on top of on meager doses of glucose, blew up to enormous proportions, compared to other strains only feeding on glucose. This bacteria had a selective advantage in now have two sources of energy with which it could continue to survive on and reproduce. These genes were passed on, and here is an experiment showing evolution before our very eyes, much to the chagrin of stubborn creationists.

  Mutations don't immediately produce Boeing 747's, but they eventually produce all the novel complexity and diversity we see in the natural world.
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  50

  How Jehovah's Witnesses benefit those humble enough to study the Bible with them.

  by Stand for Pure Worship in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  excellent material can be found within the reasoning book, page 328, para.2, 3. occasionally, i see posters make presumptuous comments like, "all you need is the bible", or, "i'm born-again, so there's no need for spiritual assistance from another christian", or,"i'm saved", or my favorite, "jesus talks to me directly.

  " on one hand, i can't be overly critical of such ones because they do attempt to read and understand the bible on their own.

  (acts 17:11) not to mention they're generally peaceable folks, just self-misguided when erroneously believing that they can go it alone.

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  Knowsnothing

  SFPW, you come here and proselytize, not really giving weight to other's commentaries. I don't think you are being fair. Care to engage in discussion, or are you only interested in your side and version of things?

  For example, you said:

  Apparently, when they were exposed to the teachings taken directly from the Bible as discussed with Scriptural supplements in the form of books like, What Does the Bible Really Teach, or brochures such as, Who Are Doing Jehovah's Will Today?, or the tract being featured in a current campaign, Can the Dead Really Live Again?, they realized that some if not all of their major beliefs were false. Thankfully, they were humble enough to accept truth according to the Scriptures and adapt their mindset.

  What is the truth according to the Scriptures?
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  169

  Challenge to Athiests - is Religion a Pox on Mankind?

  by jgnat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've spent the last few years examining my core beliefs to test what still stands.

  i've let go of an inviolate bible, demoted jesus to a failed prophet, and god as unable to act against injustice.

  our universe made itself.

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  Knowsnothing

  Religion need not be a pox. Just let it keep up with science, but don't let it interfere with progress. I like the study of religion, because it is part of our history, part of our humanity. Should it still hold relevance today? It will always hold relevance, to the poor, to the disillusioned, to the mentally unstable, or to those simply yearning for a better existence than this trivial, fleeting one. If these people cannot be provided for physically, emotionally, socially, then what other recourse do they have? Religion is the opium of the masses.
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  85

  Atheists, what is the best argument FOR God?

  by bohm in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  there are no convincing arguments for god, but some are worse than others.

  i thought it would be interesting to see what people consider the best (of the bad) arguments for god?.

  in my oppinion it is the fine-tuning argument from cosmology.

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  Knowsnothing

  As Twitch asked, what exactly is god? A definition might be useful, but when one acknowledges that they are ultimately producing their own definition, doesn't that kind of defeat the point? Lol.
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  167

  this site sucks! its just a buncha athiest on soap boxes.

  by crossquestions6995 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this site is not a healthy forum for discussion or healing.

  its an arena for jaded athiests to bash anything christian or god related.

  yes, i know the jw's lied to us about god and the truth.

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  Knowsnothing

  Cross questions, why not share with us why you believe in god? Crowds
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  26

  Bertrand russell on sceptisism (the philosophy)

  by bohm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am currently reading bertrand russells "a history of western philosophy" and this passage struck me as true:.

  scepticism naturally made an appeal to many unphilosophic minds.

  people observed the diversity of schools and the acerbity of their disputes, and decided that all alike were pretending to knowledge which was in fact unattainable.

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  Knowsnothing

  I think that perspectivism is the only honest response to the complexity and uncertainty the world presents

  I disagree. Even within our limits we can craft and forge our future; at least we can try. That's not to say other perspectives aren't worth looking at, it's to say that in our day-to-day lives, we look for our own wellbeing, and we do it as best as we individually see fit. Show me a contrary example worth considering.

  Your perspectivism seems crippling to the point where there can be nothing set in concrete, thus nothing is set in motion. Ideas are great, implementations are better, IMO.
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  371

  Design or Non-Design, finally we know, Darwin's Doubt

  by QC in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if you want to read the definitive explanation on fossils and how life arrived its covered in darwins doubt, by s.c. meyer.

  this is a game changer.

  the bomb!.

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  Knowsnothing

  The Earth, Moon and Sun alignment distances are clearly intentional (not by chance).

  Hmmm... then why does the moon recede from the Earth a few centimeters every year?
  

  http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=124
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  62

  The Bible and it's promise of Heaven and various other things

  by confusedandalone in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now in no way am i trying to discredit anyones beliefs or make fun, but once you get to heaven what is the plan once you get there.. of course, we always overlay extremely physical things upon the experience of heaven... milk and honey... ruiling over the earth etc... truthful the whole idea sounds so boring / mundane /monotonous.

  spending all of eternity serving god by carry messages here and there?.

  watching humans... i guess spending time with family that are also there and reminiscing.

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  Knowsnothing

  Religion had its place in history to unite specific people and to give certainty in an uncertain world.