i wanted my next project in the process of undoing watchtower doctrine to be their history of statements/rulings on medical treatments.
i found out just how little i really knew once i checked out ajwrb.org's scriptural discussion of the blood issue.
the logic was excellent.
sd-7 -- You might want to check out this thread I posted years ago. It uses the Society's own teachings to refute their position, and it's one that I have never heard them try to argue against.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/41260/1/The-Blood-Issue
Have fun with it!
i've always been told that i have a very good personality, that i'm humorous, etc.. one elder called me over and said that i was "smiling too much".
the other elders talked to the elder who counseled me and he came back to say that i should be like i was .
.
There was one that delighted me. We'd been married only a month or two and quite in love. At the circuit assembly my wife sat in the row of bleachers ahead of me, then leaned back against my knees. A couple of real crabby elders came over and asked real snotty like if we were married, and were obviously gearing up to chew the dickens out of us if we weren't.
Man it felt good to look right back at them with a "what are you going to do about it glare" and tell them yes!
i've always been told that i have a very good personality, that i'm humorous, etc.. one elder called me over and said that i was "smiling too much".
the other elders talked to the elder who counseled me and he came back to say that i should be like i was .
.
I was chewed out quite thoroughly for conducting a Bible study. This happened twice, for two different studies, years apart, in two different states, by two different bodies of elders, even though I was using nothing but the Societies publications!
Ignorant turds, for sure.
.style1 { border-style: solid; border-width: 2px; } .style2 { color: #ff0000; } tri-fold ajwrb.org blood brochure.
to use, print and distribute at no charge.
(print quality is far better (600dpi) than you see on this screen or in the thumbnail.
Hi, Folks -- This looks good.
Something else you may be able to use is this thread from about 8 years ago on the blood issue. It's written to be used with the members still in, and it's using their own arguments.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/41260/1/The-Blood-Issue
I like having more than one arrow for my bow.
hi, peeplezs,.
down over the years i have experienced plenty of discouragement and cynicism about faith and the existence of a god who cares for us.
if i allowed myself to dwell on those things alone, i suppose that i too would be feeling hopeless and cynical and would be just waiting until my time is up.. however, i don't feel that way at all.
LOL! Linda was just giving me a hard time. Can you imagine her doing that to a sweet, innocent, young, goodlookin', modest feller like me? (Grin)
She likes getting out of the house and hitting the stores, Goodwill, garage sales, and what have you. She takes the checkbook and credit cards and knows more about our financial welfare than I do, so I have no worries. I like to see her have fun that way.
N.Drew -- Not to worry about meangirl, et. al. I hired a private dectective to investigate her and am assured that in real life, she is very shy and retiring, gentle and loving, and wouldn't hurt a fly. All of her friends swear that there's absolutely nothing wrong with her that a good enema wouldn't cure, and her husband verified that.
Actually, I hope she stays around, because I have a special ambition that she could play a special role in. I'm planning my funeral and I want her to be the head of the mourning section, which should number about 40 or 50 people like her. I plan on dying at the age of 110 whilst wresting allegators, and I want the mourning section to be tsk, tsk-ing, cluck, clucking, shaking their fingers, and saying, "See!! See!! I told you that his wild life-style was going to catch up to him!"
I can't think of a more marvelous funeral, and would probably resurrect myself just so I could see it!
Tom
hi, peeplezs,.
down over the years i have experienced plenty of discouragement and cynicism about faith and the existence of a god who cares for us.
if i allowed myself to dwell on those things alone, i suppose that i too would be feeling hopeless and cynical and would be just waiting until my time is up.. however, i don't feel that way at all.
Hi, Peeplezs!
Yu wimmen are strange critters some times. Somethin' just happened thet has me puzzled big time, an' I thought I'd run it by sum experts like you an' hopefully yu can give me some advice and suggestions.
It started yesterday mornin'. Linda fixed my breakfast, served it up with a flourish, then jumped in the car and went to town. I didn't think much of it, because it was all pretty much business as usual.
She came back in a few hours, looked at me with a sheepish look, and said, "I have to tell you something."
"Aha!" I shot back. "Yu got a ticket, didn't you?"
Her head came up with a triumphant look in her eyes. "No, I didn't!" There was a pause while a big grin covered her face, then continued. "In fact, I've changed my mind. I'm not gonna tell you after all!"
Now this is familiar territory for me. If I start pumping her about what it was, I'd be lucky to find out within six months, if ever. On the other hand, if I leave it well enough alone, it will only be a short while before either her conscience makes her tell, or she'll tell me out of sheer curiosity to see what my reaction will be. Therefore, I just gave her a knowing grin, drawled "Okaayyyy." And changed the subject.
Sure enough, it worked. A little while ago she called me in the kitchen. "Remember yesterday when I was going to tell you something and then changed my mind?"
"Yessss..."
"An' you thought I'd gotten a ticket?"
"Yessss..."
"Well, it actually happened while I was fixing your breakfast before I went to town. I was shredding potatoes for your hashbrowns when I got my knuckle too close and shredded part of my knuckle too." She grinned and showed it to me. There was a chunk of hide missing that was about a sixteenth of an inch square.
Then she continued with a grin: "I don't know where it went." She didn't have to say much more. That chunk of skin would be almost the exact shade of the pile of shredded spuds under it. She didn't want to throw the good potatoes out, and she didn't want to start over. Therefore she scraped them all together, threw them in the frying pan and fixed my breakfast.
So, folks, here are my questions:
1. I think she's trying to send me a message, but for the life of me I can't figure out what it is. Can you help? 2. Now that it appears that I've eaten part of my wife, does that make me a canny-bal?
I mean, I know she worships me, 'cause she's given me burnt offerings before, but this seems like a bit much.
Please help.
Turrible Tom
hi, peeplezs,.
down over the years i have experienced plenty of discouragement and cynicism about faith and the existence of a god who cares for us.
if i allowed myself to dwell on those things alone, i suppose that i too would be feeling hopeless and cynical and would be just waiting until my time is up.. however, i don't feel that way at all.
ROTFLOL, meangirl! So according to you, everyone should check the charts and make their life decisions based on what's "average", eh? Apparently you are one who breaks out in a rash at the very mention of logic!
Yes, I too was a virgin.
Logic and attention span, meangirl, logic and attention span. On your post #288, my first 3 words you quote are "Two years passed." Perhaps you are "mathematically challenged" though? LOL!!! It appears that you forget to put your brain in gear before you place your mouth in motion!
And thanks for this marvelous opportunity to follow the good advice at Zedekiah 3:8 again! (See my last post). These opportunities always make my day!
A few quick observations: Meangirl's post #289: "Oh and please enlighten me. What exactly haven't I acheived?" Happiness, peace, usefulness, and fulfillment would start the list. You mention a husband, but not children, and I doubt you have any. If you do, please give them my deepest sympathy. Their lives must be miserable.
Post #291: The usual wont of busybodies is to ridicule the normal and healthy emotions of the youth by plastering demeaning names on them like "crush", "puppy love", etc., instead of helping them learn how to understand and control these new feelings. This deliberate denigration of those normal things has lead to millions of kids leaving home before they were ready, suicide, and many other tragedies. This is why I ask you to give your kids (if you have any) my deepest sympathies. I know what they are going through.
What emotional twits like you need to have hammered through your thick skulls is that childhood does not extend right through to the stroke of midnight on their 18 th birthday, at which point they are miraculously transformed into adults. There is a considerable amount of time when they are NOT children, but they a "young adults" aka: youths. To continue to treat them as children is, in their eyes, slander. I agree with them. Those parents who are stupid enough to continue treating them as children usually lose them, sometimes permanently.
Post # 296: "I have read many, many experiences of those on this forum who were teenagers in the 60's and are very bitter about making a decision to get baptized as a child." --- I have too. I have also known many who were baptized young and never regretted it. I was baptized at 15, and am still glad I did, disfellowshipped or not. Your error in logic is in thinking that if anyone makes a mistake, then all people should be prohibited from trying. One size does NOT fit all.
Post #297: ROTFLOL!!!! And am I supposed to care what these fake statistics show? I have news for you little girl: according to statistics, my ENTIRE LIFE was impossible! And that's one of the great sources of joy for me - that of tackling something that people like you say is "impossible" and then doing it with ease. The look on their faces is priceless!
Post #300: My, my! You really have your panties in a wad about my words "One of my primary goals when I married this little freckle-faced girl was to do all I knew how to be sure that she could find joy and happiness in her role of wife and mother", don't you? According to you I decided for her what she was supposed to be, that you were promiscuous (where did THAT come from???), and a whole raft of other things that were nothing more than figments of your overactive imagination. I would imagine that next you will accuse me of raping Cleopatra and Joan of Arc (actually, we had a threesome, and it was all consensual. Hehehehe!), all while stealing the green cheese off the moon. Right?
And where did you get the nutty idea that I had to decide for her what she wanted to be, particularly when she told me straight out on our first date that "You know, I'm afraid my two older sisters will have the whole world populated before I have a chance!" I didn't have to guess or decide anything. She already knew what she wanted to do with her life.
And don't give me the hogwash that someone of that age doesn't know their own mind. That little girl at 13 had more common sense and integrity in her little toe than you will have at any age.
The late, great Chicago columnist Mike Royko coined a phrase that perfectly describes everything you've posted on here. He called it "ranting on empty". Amen!
But let's get back to important things.
N.drew - ROTFLOL!!! "Meangirl are you the Governing Body's MOTHER?" I laughed until the tears were rolling down my cheeks! Gotta remember that one!
Thanks about your observation on my words "the monthly menses and their purpose". What you saw in that is accurate as far as it goes. There was a deeper reason for it though, that I didn't expound on because it is rather private. Let's put it this way: Back in the 50's and before, procreation and bodily functions like that simply weren't spoken of, with the result that many people grew up knowing almost nothing about how their body worked.
I knew one girl who tragically lost her father. The very same day, only a few hours after she got the awful news, her first period started. She was horrified and, not knowing anything at all about what was happening, she figured she would be the next to die. I found that tragic and can only imagine the mental anguish she went through. I wanted to make sure that my daughters would never experience anything like that.
So in my words above, one could substitute "and what is natural" for "and their purpose"and the correct meaning would still be there. I'm glad I didn't though, because then "meangirl" wouldn't have been able to enjoy ranting on empty! (I always aim to please. LOL!)
AGuest - Your analysis of the conditions at that time is spot on. The age one could be married then in Oregon was indeed 15, and yes, parental consent was needed, which was not difficult, but that is no reflection on our parents.
I thought I'd share something with you that is both funny and touching. "Meangirl" made such a self-righteous issue about not accepting the affections of younger men ---
My grandfather on my mother's side was six years younger than my grandmother. They got acquainted because she was his Sunday school teacher. He fell in love and vowed to himself that this was the girl he was going to marry. She knew nothing of this at first, and years passed. His decency and patience drew her respect first, and eventually her love.
They were married well over 50 years. I well remember one time when she was about 78 (she looked it too, bless her heart) that she walked into the kitchen one evening just before going to bed. She always wore her hair in a bun, but would brush it out every night, and that's what she was doing at the moment. When down, it extended well past her waist.
My grandfather was silent as he watched her with a soft light in his eyes. After a minute or two he turned to me and said quietly, "Tom, look. Isn't she beautiful?"
Her head dropped and she blushed just as pretty as any 15 year-old. "Oh, Charles. . . . . ." Her voice trailed off.
She may have been 78 years-old and a great grandmother, but in his eyes she was still the beautiful young girl he had married all those years before.
Still thinking - post #1717: I completely agree with you on all points. However, I think that there is a nuance here that is being missed by all, which is my fault for not enlarging the conversation in that direction. I made a passing reference to it, but considering some of the comments made, it is obviously inadequate. I'm referring to my words,"She blossomed far beyond anything that I expected, and I was enthralled with the results."
The "results" referred to are extensive and pervasive, and are not limited to a narrow field like family duties. It has been my experience that it matters little who one is or what position in life one finds himself. For one to reach his or her full potential, the first and most critical task is simply to become comfortable with oneself. Once that is accomplished, then excellent progress can be made into almost any field.
As it was, my little freckle-faced gal (I tease her that her freckles are the thousand island dressing on my hot tomato) (Grin) wanted to be a wife and mother. This inner sense of self imparts strength, and realizing that it is honored and respected by those around her made her excel in her chosen role, just as she would have excelled in other roles, if she would have chosen them. This success gave her confidence and joy, and she came out of her youthful shell and blossomed into a well rounded and delightful woman that everyone loves and respects.
But it didn't stop there. This quality was passed on to our daughters, and now grandkids. For instance, our two oldest girls got part time jobs while in high school, pooled their money, and bought themselves a car. It needed an overhaul, so they asked me to guide them through it, which I did. They overhauled it all right, right down to the cam bearings! Those two cute girls covered in grease were a sight to see! They drove it for a while until they'd finished their second year of high school French, then sold it to finance a trip to Montreal where they hoped to polish their skill in the language. This they did for a period of one year, when they were approximately 16 and 17. At the end of the year they gave an account of their experiences at the Quebec district assembly, in French.
Our oldest daughter is married with two kids, and is an RN in the pediatric ward of a hospital in Anchorage, Alaska. (Actually, she's one step above an RN, but I forget what it's called.) Her daughter has two kids and is in business for herself.
Our second daughter is married with two kids, and they travel all over the place acting as interpreters at French speaking assemblies and other functions. All four of them are fluent in French, and one of their daughters has already spent some time in Africa and is finishing up her second year of Swahili.
Another daughter loves the theater and dancing. She too is married with two kids, and she has written and produced plays and is working on another one now. She was nervous as a cat in a room full of rocking chairs just before she directed her first one and asked what the sign of a successful play was. She was told that she could consider it a success if she sold 80% of the seats. She averaged 96%. Every showing after the first night was sold out. Her lead actor went on to play on Broadway in New York. Her daughter dances with the Eugene ballet company and has toured the Pacific Northwest with them. In her "spare" time she gets $25.00 an hour to teach ballet - and she's only 17 years old!
I've already introduced you to Jeanne, who is married and has 4 kids. Her love is nature and the wilderness, although she loves theater too, and has her finger in a myriad other things. That includes the county fair, in which the whole family is involved. Last year when Sol was 9, he constructed about 20 scarecrows for people's gardens and sold them for prices ranging from $20.00 to $75.00. Meanwhile, his 6 year-old brother Forrest was standing in the thick of things with a contribution jar in front of him, playing his violin. These kids did these things on their own, and only received help when they asked for it.
There's more, but I think that's enough to illustrate my point. My prime role in all of this was to forge the elbow room for them to try, and help them to realize that failures were failures in name only, for you learn more from them than anything else. About 90% of my job then, consisted in backing off the cynics and nay-sayers so that my family wouldn't be afraid to try.
This, then, is what I was referring to when speaking of the "results". By this time I'm finding myself standing in the midst of all this, swinging my head back and forth, scratching my noggin, and wondering, "Good lord, Tom! Whot did yu git started here!" LOL!!!
Tom
hi, peeplezs,.
down over the years i have experienced plenty of discouragement and cynicism about faith and the existence of a god who cares for us.
if i allowed myself to dwell on those things alone, i suppose that i too would be feeling hopeless and cynical and would be just waiting until my time is up.. however, i don't feel that way at all.
Hi, Peeplezs!
ROTFLOL!!! "Pears to me that in some people's minds, being a "little freckle-faced girl" is a mortal sin. That's fine, I'll continue to use it 'cause I've always liked to follow the good advice in Zedekiah 3:8 - "ALWAYS keep a pompous ass in a state of perpetual outrage! It's the only Christian way to fly!" It's one of the great joys in life. Hehehehe!!!!
Meangirl - (are you bragging or complaining? LOL!) You're funny. You keep saying "what's wrong is wrong and what's right is right!" Since when have you been appointed the arbitrator of all morality? It appears to me that your concept of right and wrong is so warped that you would not be able to recognize either of them even if they bit you in the butt!
But - let me answer some of the questions that have been raised, in spite of the apparent fact that you couldn't recognize truth even when it's in plain sight.
All of the laws that you have quoted apply except when the couple in question are married. Then there is another body of laws that apply. We obeyed all laws that were in existence at the time.
When we married, my little freckle-faced girl (I threw that in especially for you) (Grin) was still a virgin, which I realize that you are so jaded that you couldn't possibly believe such a thing even if the angels came down out of heaven and sang it to you in ten part harmony. There's a good reason for why she was, though. You see, she freely gave me something that would be utterly impossible for a woman like you to give to a man. That is her trust and faith. In my book, that is the most exquisite thing on this planet, more beautiful than her body, and even more beautiful than her love. I knew even at that age that if I could live up to that trust and faith, that it would make a solid foundation for a long and happy marriage, and time has proved me right.
But of course, in your moralistic omniscience, it is utterly impossible for any man to do something that isn't selfish and self-centered, right? Not only that, but the sole thing any male ever has on his mind is sex, and all sex is dirty and degrading, right? Plus, sex should never be engaged in unless a baby is desired, and even then it should only be with the lights out and fully clothed, right? And of course, the most hideous fate possible for a woman is for a man to be proud of her, right?
But, here's a little more truth that you couldn't possibly believe. When I left home at the age of 18, the biggest reason was that I was looking for a life's companion, someone that would be mine and that I would be hers. Sowing wild oats was the furthest thing from my mind. I met her for the first time the very next day after I arrived at my destination. Her oldest sister was getting married, and I was invited to go. I probably wouldn't have gone, but their last name was the same as mine, so I was curious. The bride was my age and beautiful, but I was obviously too late, so I looked to her younger sisters.
The next one was 16 and even more beautiful, but she already had a boyfriend, and I felt that was something to be respected, so I moved on. Then there was a third daughter, a little freckle-faced girl of only 13, so I moved on again and didn't look back because she was just too young.
Months passed, and I was appointed as the assistant magazine-territory servant. As circumstances occurred, this little freckle-faced girl was the one who picked up her family's magazines, so I saw her on a regular basis. There was no thought of romance in my mind at that time, sexual or any other type. Nonetheless, she bothered me. There was an air of sadness about her that just didn't seem right. Therefore, I did the only thing I knew to do. I'd make some comment to try to brighten her day a little, like tease her about her last name, which, as it was the same as mine, was safe to do. She wouldn't say a word, but a beautiful smile would appear and it always reminded me of the sun coming up.
After a while I learned the reason for that sadness. Her father had died of leukemia two years before, and her mother had to go to work to support them. Much of the responsibility for the house and caring for her little brother and sister had fallen on her shoulders.
This continued for some time, but finally came to a head at a circuit assembly in Pasadena, California. I was stationed as an attendant in the back row. I had seen her sitting with her sister, her sister's boyfriend, and her little brother and sister in the front row, and had waved to them when I passed. A few minutes later, her little brother (about 8 years old) came trotting up to me. Grinning, he piped, "Tom, Linda wants to talk to you."
Stunned, for I didn't remember ever hearing her speak, I started walking back up to the front, my mind churning like a boiler factory. I was about half way when it clicked and I turned to him. "Vern, who told you to tell me that Linda wanted to talk to me?"
His grin spread from ear to ear. "Donna and Johnny!"
Aha! Now I understood. They were teasing her. I started to turn back to spare her the mortification, but it was too late. She was coming to meet me. I will never forget what happened next for as long as I live.
She walked up squarely in front of me, looked up into my eyes with a steady gaze, blushed, and said quietly and evenly, "Donna and Johnny were teasing me because I like you."
I was blown away. I had never seen such honesty in all of my life! She was very young, yes, but she was no ordinary little girl! I didn't say a word, but just took her hand, and we sat together for the rest of the assembly.
On the last day, we made arrangements to go on a date the next weekend. About mid week, I got a note from her. "I can't go! I have the measles!" So we waited another week and it seemed like an eternity. Finally the day came and I went to pick her up.
The drive-in movie was about 20 miles away, and for the first third of that distance I tried to strike up some sort of conversation, but got only silence. Then suddenly, right out of the blue without any introduction at all, she said in a breathless tone and with sparkling eyes, "You know, I'm afraid my two older sisters will have the whole world populated before I have a chance!" That did it. I knew who I wanted to spend the rest of my life with!
Two years passed. I had moved back to Oregon and it seemed like we had written a jillion letters to each other. I proposed, she accepted, and it was eventually arranged for her to come up. The first time was for a week, and it seemed like the world was empty after she went back. Finally we decided not to wait any more, so she came up again and we were married. We were both young, scared, but very much in love.
But I too was worried about her age, so we agreed that we wouldn't have any kids for at least five years. We got some contraceptive, learned how to use it and followed the instructions faithfully. Ha! That was a joke! It seemed that all I had to do was look at her cross-eyed and she'd be pregnant. The contraceptive only seemed to encourage the process! Within two years we had two kids. I'll never forget the look of utter joy on her face when the first one was placed in her arms.
About that time we figured out what caused it (actually, we changed contraceptives) and five years passed, then she wanted another one. This happened twice more, so now we had five children. Eight more years passed, and one day she came up to me, looked into my eyes, and asked: "Just one more?" Now we have six.
I don't know of any woman anywhere who is more loved and respected than this one. I think we all know what happens to the families of men who have been disfellowshipped, but ours is the exception. My wife is treated with honor in the congregation, and my son's best friends are elder's sons.
So yes, I abused her something awful, didn't I, seeing as how I forced her to have six kids against her will? What a couple of morons you are, meangirl and Devil_Fish! You look for evil where there isn't any, while running on the assumption that because you are incapable of doing something yourself, no one else can either.
And yes, my words are harsh towards you for a good reason. The worst threat by far to the happiness of young couples (or nearly any other enterprise) is the cynical and deliberate search by people like you to find evil in everything. You pollute everything you touch. It seems that if you are incapable of achieving something yourself, you will do everything in your power to make sure that no one else has it either.
And yes again. My words are deliberate and calculated to encourage those who, in spite of the best efforts of people like you, still have the courage to reach out for some happiness in life, and they are meant to be a slap in the face of those who cynically belittle it and destroy hope.
For instance, you make a big issue about my words,"One of my primary goals when I married this little freckle-faced girl was to do all I knew how to be sure that she could find joy and happiness in her role of wife and mother. I wanted her to be glad she was a woman (especially my woman) and found fulfillment in her role in life."
Why didn't you include the very next sentence? "Needless to say, that is not something that a man can force on a woman, and for it to happen he has to control the environment in such a way that those qualities can grow on their own." I'll tell you why. It's because those words tend to contra-indicate the evil that you are so desperately trying to find. Leave them out and it's far easier to twist the words into something dirty. I find pleasure in your anger at me, due to the damage that you do to the innocent. Perhaps my words will distract you from molesting them with your cynicism. I can take it, and many of them can't.
Tec - Thanks for your thoughts!
However, I'm going to mildly disagree with your words about how today's standards probably aren't any better. (Grin) They are far worse than those that existed when we were kids. I have never in my life seen such a hodge-podge of idiotic lunacy than what the modern philosophies on how to raise children, how to maintain safety, race relations, and marriage are. I have solid grounds for that statement and a huge contempt for their grand pretenses of being able to "counsel" anyyone, at anytime, on anything.
When we were kids, killing your parents, teachers, and fellow students in mass shootings and similar atrocities, were unheard of, not because we couldn't, but because no one had the desire to. Most of the homes where we lived were arsenals. My two little brothers at the ages of 13 and 14 would go down to the hardware store and buy cases of dynamite, and no one thought twice about it, yet people felt safe in spite of these things. Why? Because we understood what integrity, morality, and fair play were.
But I fully understand why kids do it today. If I had to try to survive under the ocean of hogwash that they are subjected to today, I'd probably feel the same way.
(And I kind of hope that someone is sucker enough to challenge that opinion. Before they do though, I would strongly recommend that they go to http://howlinmad.net/, and look under the link "On Racial Prejudice" so that they will get a good idea of what they are getting into. LOL!)
And peace to you too!
Everyone else - Thank you! I'd like to comment on some of those too, but felt I should get this out of the road first. This is long enough already.
hi, peeplezs,.
down over the years i have experienced plenty of discouragement and cynicism about faith and the existence of a god who cares for us.
if i allowed myself to dwell on those things alone, i suppose that i too would be feeling hopeless and cynical and would be just waiting until my time is up.. however, i don't feel that way at all.
was the snake or serpent created perfect, god saw it was.
good.
so if the serpent or snake(presumably innocent).
Hi, Peeplezs!
Wal, ah done been cogitatin' a bit on yore question about thet thar snake in the Garden of Eden, an' thunk me sum thots about it. Ah'll run 'em by yu an' see if'n they makes any scents.
These words to Satan (the snake) would be the first meeting of the various parties after Satan caused Adam and Eve to sin, and tension and feelings would be running high. The Biblical account would pretty much be a cut and dried reporting of events and language, and most of the color, innuendos, and interplay - such as facial expressions, body language, etc., would be left out. Sometimes these things make quite a difference and will explain a lot.
For instance, you can say the same thing to a woman, and get a totally different reaction depending on how it's phrased: "When I look into your eyes, time stands still" will probably get you a kiss, but if you tell her "Your face would stop a clock", you might have to duck. They mean the same thing, don't they? Now try to translate them into a different language and keep the innuendos intact.
So my thought is that maybe we should hop in our time mosheen and go back to the Garden of Eden and look at it as if we were there. Of course, there were only two people then, so we'll have to be something else. You'll be a butterfly on a leaf and I'll be a honeybee on a flower - okay, okay! If yer gonna be that way about it, yu can be the honeybee and I'll be the butterfly!
We look at each other. "Hey, look! Something's up over there on the other side of the meadow!" Naturally, we buzz and flap our way over there to get a better look.
To our surprise, Creator is highly displeased! We've never seen him that way before! Lucifer, his foreman over the construction of the earth, appears self-satisfied and defiant, and those two new critters, "people" I think they're called, although it runs in my mind that they are also known as "hoomin beans" or some such thing, are both lookin' like they swallered a bug.
We soon find out why. It seems that Lucifer chose a real cautious varmit (the snake, which would add to his credibility) and, using it like a ventriloquist's dummy, proceeded to fill the "hoomans" clear full of a load of smelly stuff, eggzactly whot, I'd rather not say. That, in turn, caused them to do something they weren't 'sposed to.
Then we find out what: After questioning Eve as to what they were forbidden to do and getting a correct answer that they would die if they ate the fruit of one certain tree, he states flatly, "You positively will not die. For God knows that in the very day of your eating from it your eyes are bound to be opened and you are bound to be like God, knowing good and bad."
Now, that's something anyone would take personally! In those few words, Lucifer told Eve that:
If someone pretending to be an authority snuck in behind our backs and told our families something like that about us, I reckon we'd be all bent out of shape too! The difference would be in our reactions. You and I would probably say with some enthusiasm: "Why, you @+%)*&^)$#&^%(*+%$!!!!!", then haul off and bust him in the proboscis.
However, Creator has more couth than we do. He's angry, but that is well under control, because he is also powerful and has no need to feel vulnerable, so we could expect that his answer would be unhurried, dignified, and directly to the point. He will pronounce punishment and then waste no further time and effort on this slob. He doesn't even give the fool the honor of being directly spoken to, but he talks to the snake instead!
And what a punishment! What he's saying in so many words is roughly this: "You pretended to be a snake, eh? So be it. I'll give you the qualities of a snake. You won't be able to do anything without using stealth, deception, and lies, just like a snake in the grass. You will be hated and avoided by most of the rest of creation and, just like I'm taking the legs off this snake so that he has to crawl on his belly, you too will be brought low in relationship to everything else." (It don't pay to mess with Creator!) You have to admit the punishment fits the crime!
And was he brought low? Yu betcha! Sure, he has manufactured a reputation for himself that is like John Wayne toilet paper (rough, tough, and takes crap off nobody), but the reality is far different. Consider this:
1. All we puny humans have to do is stand up and resist him and he runs like a scared jack rabbit. (James 4:7)
2. We have the authority to get sustenance from the animals, but he has to not only ask permission, but needs to beg for it too. (Luke 8:30-33)
3. And best of all, we humans have the authority to expose him for what he really is, and make him a laughing stock in the eyes of the entire universe. (Proverbs 27:11)
Okay, peeplezs, it's yore turn. Poke holes in it. (Grin)
