doubtful

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Posts by doubtful

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  11

  How can you post youtube video links?

  by doubtful in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have a funny video i wanted to post in this forum but i can't seem to paste anything within a thread.

  i can't even paste the url link.

  help!.

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  doubtful

  I have a funny video I wanted to post in this forum but I can't seem to paste anything within a thread. I can't even paste the url link. Help!
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  16

  Can you be appointed as an Elder while attending college?

  by doubtful in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what is the current stance on this issue?

  i've heard of a lot of ms who were going to university, and yet i've never heard of that being the case for elders.

  someone on this board also mentioned recently that they knew of man who was denied appointment as an elder despite otherwise excellent qualifications because he was a college student.

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  doubtful

  What is the current stance on this issue? I've heard of a lot of MS who were going to university, and yet I've never heard of that being the case for elders. Someone on this board also mentioned recently that they knew of man who was denied appointment as an elder despite otherwise excellent qualifications because he was a college student. Other posters even mentioned that you can't continue to serve as an elder if you decide to go to college or allow your children to go to college.

  Is that official policy, or some kind of unwritten rule that all elder bodies abide by? You can't become an elder or even remain an elder if you decide to pursue a degree?
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  25

  Lack of true friends as a Witness

  by stuckinamovement in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it was kind of a sad realization i had the other day that as a witness you are conditioned to not have friends.

  i realize that most of this fact is related to my own stupidity and arrogance.

  when i was in my teenage years i had a great group of friends that i ran around with.

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  doubtful

  Prisoner No 6,

  Why did you become a JW then, after such experiences??
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  22

  New video: Is Jesus Your Mediator?

  by RayPublisher in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this video is geared towards witnesses that are willing to listen to all sides:.

  .

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv2wcrwfcia.

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  doubtful

  RayPublisher,

  Good stuff man.

  Make it a priority to cut out completely all condescending or sarcastic tones from your video. The guy reading the WT quotes sounded like a little weasel, and I know that was intentional. Yet, one of the big hang-ups for JWs is that they believe apostates are evil pawns of Satan...and that the "brothers and sisters" are the most kind and loving people on earth. So, if you say or do anything to reinforce that presupposition, then the result will be that they will be totally turned off to your message..they'll likely close out the internet window, and perhaps even unplug their computer to disinfect it from the demonic influence! Lol.

  And NEVER ask the question.. "Is this really so?"....That'll just remind them of what the Serpent asked Eve in Eden and that's all it will take for them to make the mental leap between you as an individual and Satan incarnate.
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  1

  Witnesses and Gardening

  by doubtful in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  doubtful
• 
  25

  Lack of true friends as a Witness

  by stuckinamovement in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it was kind of a sad realization i had the other day that as a witness you are conditioned to not have friends.

  i realize that most of this fact is related to my own stupidity and arrogance.

  when i was in my teenage years i had a great group of friends that i ran around with.

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  doubtful

  Yes yes yes indeed! I have lived in three very different areas of the country, been in 5 different congregations, and in both English and Spanish. I was born in the cancer, to a single mother - very devout, but she always had to work and never pio-sneered. Regardless of the area or the congregation, the one common denominator between all the KHs was the ubiquitousness of cliques. Single people hung out with single people, families and extended families stuck together and for them blood was always thicker than water. Married people hung out with married people. Teenagers hung out with teenagers...kids with kids...old spinsters with old spinsters and widows..and most important of all...PIONEERS WITH PIONEERS.

  JW congs function like any other human community..There exists social stratification...your popularity and ability to garner friends is contigent upon your status. Only the social currency in the JW world is not fortune or fame..but your perceived "spirituality" and your position in the Watchtower's highly developed hiearchy.

  Pioneers love to pride themselves on their "unique privilege". They look down their noses at everybody else who isn't a good enough Watchtower slave to be a pioneer. As a youth, I particularly couldn't stand all the dim-witted, unquestioning, just-out-of-high school, born-in JW youths who drooled all over themselves in self adoration, simply because they pioneered...driving around in the cars that their parents bought them..using their parents' money for gas and going out expenses, or shopping or vacations...while working part-time or not at all...and then posting on Facebook about how "true it is that Jehovah provides for us".

  Pioneers form an elite class, and they tend to exclude others from their impenetrable circle of friends. Also, those with a lot of family members in the org have a good number of social connections through their relatives, which makes it easier for them to get into one of the many cliques. It also helps of course if you have money and tend to throw a lot of parties at your house.

  It also helps if you are exceptionally good looking, as all the sex-deprived JW youth are the horniest and most fanatically eager to get married ASAP group of teens and young adults you'll ever come across...and despite all the lip-service paid to seeking out marriage mates based on their spiritual qualities and the person they are within..the reality is that both sexes are on the prowl for someone sexually attractive.

  Loneliness and feeling like an "other" is what drove me to seriously start researching the WT's teachings and history..If I had been perfectly content, and if the JW community had truly been so welcoming and embracing and inclusive, then I would never have had an incentive to investigate the validity of my beliefs. I would wager that most people who end up on this board do so because they feel alienated..and they ARE NOT so content with the wonderful supercalifragilisticexpialidocious loving "brotherhood" of the JW world.

  I went through one period in my life as a young teen (14-16) when I had two great friends. The three of us were absolutely inseperable. We loved each other and had the greatest of times together..Yet we were always ourselves amongst one another..In other words, away from the prying eyes of all the crazy judgemental JWs, we were different people. We watched Dave Chappelle, South Park, rated-R comedies, etc. We chased girls around like normal teenage boys. We talked about what interested us, and developed our own dictionary of inside-jokes and special words and cues. We weren't afraid to express how we truly felt about things or people.

  Yet, my friends' parents were more uber-JWs than my mom was, and they would often try to curtail or sabotage our tight-knit friendship. Eventually, my friends got publically reproved for some nonsense, and the elders came to my house and basically told my mom that I shouldn't have any contact with my friends. That was the last of those friendships.

  Subsequently, I was back to where I had been for the first 14 years of my life - completely and utterly alone..aside from all the "wonderful" friendships to be had with the "older" (read: geriatric) friends in the congregation.

  When I moved yet again, I managed to wiggle my way into one of the cliques at my new hall..but when certain teenage romances blew up, and the dynamics of the group changed..I was again left on the outside looking in.

  I then moved to the Spanish to try my luck in a different cultural environment..but never really made my way into any of the cliques, even though I was beloved by the older ones because of my comments and talks.

  I didn't fit in this time because instead of being too poor, this time I was too rich for the Mexicans. I was also "white" even though I'm a Mexican-American, I was simply a guero or gringo because I am European looking and didn't grow up speaking Spanish. I was too smart for all the other mindless JW youth, and instead of going the usual JW post-high school course of pioneering and looking to get married as soon as possible..I decided I wanted to pursue an academic education and a satisifying secular career with options.

  Needless to say..my goals, outlook, personality, and schedule did not coincide with most other JW youth..so the robotic youth of Watchtower world never allowed me into their inner circle of friends.

  I had a lot of acquaintances and a lot of older ones who genuninely seemed to care about me, but I never had any true friends who I knew beyond a superficial level who ever really took the time to get to know me, or dedicate quality time to associating with me for anything other than Watchtower pursuits.

  Toward the very end, there were some older ones who sensed how increasinlgy detached and lonely I must have been..and they tried inviting me over their house for youth "game nights", which consisted of watching one of the cheesy WT produced indoctrination videos, eating pizza with no alcohol, a lame G or PG rated movie, and possibly playing board games.

  It just wasn't my idea of fun.
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  20

  The Great Day of Jehovah - the War to End All Wars

  by sabastious in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for most of my life i was taught that everything we experience in our lives is a build up to the great day of jehovah: armageddon.

  i was informed, regularly, that this war would be when jehovah finally gets his vengeance from his advasary the devil.

  as jehovah's witnesses were were taught that war is the solution, so long as the kingdom set up afterwards is eternally prosperous.

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  doubtful

  Was that video and excerpt from Fred Franz's speech on 1975?
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  1

  Do JWs really believe that the Spirit gives them the words they need to speak?

  by doubtful in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the one refreshing thing about jws is that unlike the pentecostal denominations and some of the weird evangelical guys..they don't really buy into the whole "gifts of spirit" thing.

  witnesses don't fall on the ground and spazz out.

  they don't spontaneously shout out in an incomprehensible, ficticious language.

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  doubtful

  The one refreshing thing about JWs is that unlike the Pentecostal denominations and some of the weird evangelical guys..they don't really buy into the whole "gifts of spirit" thing. Witnesses don't fall on the ground and spazz out. They don't spontaneously shout out in an incomprehensible, ficticious language. Nor do they pretend to have miraculous powers of prophecy or healing.

  Yet..they do claim that the Holy Spirt and the angels guide them in the ministry. They are told not to worry over the fact that they're uneducated, inarticulate, semi-illiterate, and bashful. They are told that they need not worry about what to say at the door, or how to defend their faith when challenged by "opposers" (read: thinking people asking critical questions). They don't have to fret because God's holy spirit will give them the words they need to say, and the spirit will give them "the power beyond what is normal" to recall to mind vital scriptures.

  Some jws excitedly tell stories of when they were able to suddenly recall, with astonishing rapidity and accuracy, verse after verse, bible truth after bible truth...They just KNEW it was Jehovah's active force helping them.."putting the words in their mouth"...praise be to Jah!

  Yet, it has been my experience that one's ability to clearly formulate bible based arguments, and articulate biblical concepts at the door, while responding to criticism and opposing viewpoints, is entirely a function of that person's own experience and innate ability. If the JW confronted by another kind of "Christian" is stupid, and their only exposure to the bible and written words in general is limited to Watchtower publications, then chances are they are going to fumble around, deflect, try to change the topic, and basically make an ass out of themselves, until they eventually retreat with their tail between their legs. The more seasoned vets and those with more knowledge and cognitive capability among them however, can sometimes hold their ground and contribute some kind of worthy response to questions and statements from "opposers". Granted, most of their argument does consist of "regurgitated platitudes" (to borrow a line from a fellow poster), half-truths, and unfactual declarations about history, current events, and their organization. But at least they hold their head up high and don't mumble, stammer, avoid eye contact, and tremble.

  For those hapless, brain-dead, sufferers of delusions of grandeur who repeatedly embarass themselves in such encounters --- how do they still believe that God gives them the words they need to speak?

  When I'm trying to reason with dubs, and they have no honest rebuttal to my rational arguments...and instead resort to obfuscating the issue at hand, or changing the subject and clearly know they're outmatched...I ask them why the Holy Spirit isn't providing them with the words they need to say to make a defense of their faith. I ask them why it is that they can't recall the scriptures they need, while I can.

  Naturally, they don't have an answer. Some will say that it's because I'm an opposer and Jehovah and the angels who guide the ministry work don't want to waste the Holy Spirit on throwing pearls to swine. So there's a finite amount of Holy Spirit now?

  Essentially they argue that they are only given holy spirit to be able to recall scriptures and are only fed the words they need to speak in order to reach and convince "honest hearted ones", who are "disposed to sayings of everlasting life". So, when confronted with opposers, ridiculers, or those not inclined to agree with them, this miraculous gift from God has no bearing.

  Yet the scriptures which concern the idea regarding not "worrying about what to say, because God's spirit will put words in your mouth" say just the opposite. These scriptures indicate that this divine gift was to be used precisely for these very situations! When God's servants were brought before officials of the law or government, and when they were forced to provide a defense in the face of criticism!

  Matthew 10:18,19

  Exodus 4:12

  So the next time you are debating with a dub who has a dumbfounded, bewildered and confused look on his/her face, and you can see that they feel totally out of their depth, ask them that question. Why isn't the Holy Spirit providing them with the words they need to make an accurate defense of their faith? Why can't they recall the scriptures?

  And if they resort to the same trick I described above, reference those two scriptures.

  Perhaps a select few will see that they have no special power guiding them...and if they are willing to acknowledge this...there is hope for those individuals to wake up.
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  91

  GLOBAL FLOOD . . . Did it Really Happen?

  by sizemik in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this question became an off-topic sidetrack in another thread.

  i thought it might be worth some debate so posted here .

  the debate is basically between mainstream geological understanding of the earth's history and "young earth creationism" in particular with how the evidence relates to the occurrence of a global flood in the recent past.. a couple of points from the yec website www.icr.org are raised as examples in order to kick things off .

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  doubtful

  Yes..devious Satan and his nefarious underlings of the spirit realm spend their days roaming about the earth and fabricating fossil evidence and rearranging geological strata and tree rings. It explains everything. I don't know why you people routinely underestimate the devil's craftiness.

  Demon 1: Hey ugly rebellious angel who decided to shack up with some homo sapien hotties back in the day! What's on your schedule today?

  Demon 2: Oh hello fellow doomed one! I'm taking advantage of the precious moments I have left after 1914 to further our evil plans.

  Demon 1: Wow, that's great! What are you going to do exactly?

  Demon 2: I'm just gonna put in a typical day's work at the office. Then I'm gonna head on over to East Africa..Kenya, or maybe Ethiopia and go conjure up a hominid fossil with my super-duper demon technology, complete with verifiable DNA and all, and sneakily go plant it under some debris where those silly paleo-archeologists are at...And get this! I'm gonna put just enough Carbon 14 in it to make them think that it's over 100,000 years old!

  Demon 1: Hahaha. LMAO. That's great stuff man..When do you have time to think of these things??

  Demon 2: Oh I usually squeeze it in after I've possessed the Pope and the leaders of the U.N for my two hour shifts...
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  4

  animals creation

  by yentel in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  some animal and bird forms were created after adams creation.. see "all scriptures" page 286 para13.

  agape

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  doubtful

  great stuff..