JonathanH

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Posts by JonathanH

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  46

  Apostates part from 2011 DC Symposium

  by baltar447 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i just got through listening to the part on apostates.

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  they basically ignored any true questions or critisisms in favor of an ad hominem character attack on apostates.. they made the assertion that "apostates" are 1-prideful, 2-ingrateful, 3-impatient.. anyone that's listened care to discuss the part?.

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  JonathanH

  I know it wasn't reasoning from the scriptures, I had that when I pioneered. It was something much much older.
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  46

  Apostates part from 2011 DC Symposium

  by baltar447 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i just got through listening to the part on apostates.

  .

  they basically ignored any true questions or critisisms in favor of an ad hominem character attack on apostates.. they made the assertion that "apostates" are 1-prideful, 2-ingrateful, 3-impatient.. anyone that's listened care to discuss the part?.

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  JonathanH

  Actually in line with my previous comment it really makes their continued instruction to avoid places like this that seem all the more bizarre. We only get the dregs of believing witness society in here, ones that think over highly of themselves and can't take orders properly. Could you imagine in the 40s if there was a place where a bunch of people were hanging out raring to debate the witnesses and elders and COs and they tacitly refuse and say "sorry, we can only stand on the street corner wearing this sandwhich board. We're not supposed to actually discuss our beliefs with people unless they admit up front that they have no intention of contesting our beliefs. We only want people that will read the paragraph and then repeat it back to us." No, that would've been insane to them. They would have gotten their bibles and had a showdown. Now they would awkwardly skamper off and let an elder know about what happened. It's a depressing state they've been reduced to. Rendered impotent by the ignorance and uniformity forced on them.
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  46

  Apostates part from 2011 DC Symposium

  by baltar447 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i just got through listening to the part on apostates.

  .

  they basically ignored any true questions or critisisms in favor of an ad hominem character attack on apostates.. they made the assertion that "apostates" are 1-prideful, 2-ingrateful, 3-impatient.. anyone that's listened care to discuss the part?.

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  JonathanH

  I remember reading old JW books when I was still in that actually taught witnesses how to debate with people on their beliefs. I wish I could remember the book, but it taught debating tactics, how to lure your opponent out and crush him with reasoning and show him his own contradictions. Decades and decades ago witnesses were taught to actually defend and teach what they believe. It was expected that you would debate your beliefs. Now they are taught that if somebody expresses a contradictory viewpoint, or says something that isn't in line with the watchtower cover your ears and run. Decades and decades and decades ago witnesses were taught that if somebody had twisted reasoning, untwist it. Now if somebody has so much as a misunderstanding of witness views, just tell an elder so he can record it in on a form. Witnesses have gotten soft, their unwillingness to engage in coversation anymore only shows their inability to do it.
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  36

  Atheist reasoning

  by d in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here is a athiest video on god.god is a diease of the mind.. http://youtu.be/zcun4l35yqg.

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  JonathanH

  I am confused.
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  46

  Apostates part from 2011 DC Symposium

  by baltar447 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i just got through listening to the part on apostates.

  .

  they basically ignored any true questions or critisisms in favor of an ad hominem character attack on apostates.. they made the assertion that "apostates" are 1-prideful, 2-ingrateful, 3-impatient.. anyone that's listened care to discuss the part?.

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  JonathanH

  None of which is surprising. Demonising your opponent is much more effective than trying to debate his views, especially if you don't have any ground to stand on.
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  46

  God: the central question

  by ixthis in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  of all the issues affecting every person's picture of reality, nothing is more fundamental than questions about god.. is there one god, creator and sovereign of all?could there be more than one god?

  or no god at all?if there is a god (or gods), then what is that god (or gods) like?nothing determines your worldview-and the course of your life-more than how you answer those questions.

  yet some atheists like to make light of the god question.

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  JonathanH

  I did read it and it's a bunch of nonsense. It's like the postmodernism generator (http://www.elsewhere.org/pomo/), but for theology. I mean with statements like

  "Dear brothers and sisters, let us not be fooled… the “bribe” has already been paid. The “bribe” is the Judge; His Blood is the bribe with which He “deceives” Himself into saving us, due to His great love, in spite of it all." You'd almost think a computer generated it off of a template.

  Theology is like arguing if the invisible dragon in my garage is purple or fuschia. It's a nonsensical topic, it has no basis for discussion to begin with, and even if you were going to entertain the argument for the sake of argument there would be no way to discern who was right or who was wrong (was the dragon purple of fuschia?) because the basis of the discussion is baseless and has to be assumed a priori to even begin the nonsensical discussion, and there exists no methodology to provide evidence of the assertions being made, nor a methodology to falsify one's claims.

  So some theologian going on about philokalia and god's humbleness, and man's freedom to perish is just a bunch of blind assertions that even if you did accept the a priori assumption of biblical inspiration, would be no more correct or incorrect than any other theologian's blind assertions of god's will and nature. Everybody seems sure of what god wants, and nobody can agree on what it is. Everybody seems to understand god's purposes and ways, but they can't seem to come to any agreeable conclusion on what they are. Because despites centuries of pontificating on god's ways, and desires, and purposes, theologians haven't come up with a way to demonstrate anything they are saying is true or false. Does this gentlemen you quote have any means of falsifying his claim that we as a species and only we as a species have the ability, not to be uncreated, but to be AS IF we were uncreated? Or is that just gibberish that he is asserting?

  Theology is just the act of defining and then redefining god to meet whatever new objections reason or science or philosophy or society comes up with. That's what it's been for centuries. Theology is another thing that would look exactly the same in a universe without god, as a universe with a god apparently.
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  19

  I've invited the Witnesses to my house

  by maksym in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  im recent here and thought i would properly introduce myself.

  i have posted a few times but mostly i like to read because i gather good insight into reaching the hearts of jehovahs witnesses.

  the short of it is i was born into a large family of jehovahs witnesses.

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  JonathanH

  I would try to get them to understand that they don't believe in the bible, they believe in the society. I think it was steve hassan that said members of bible based cults don't believe in their theology, they believe they are part of a chosen group. But any witness would tell you they believe in the bible.

  You could ask something like.

  So you believe your religion is the one true religion, and those that aren't part of your religion are part of false religion? (They would have to say yes, all of christendom and babylon the great is false religion)

  So you believe that your doctrines are true and those of christendom are false correct? (They may give some squirrely answer, but over all they would have to say yes)

  If next months Watchtower changed a doctrine that you believe to be true, would you abandon that doctrine or abandon the Society?

  If they abandon doctrine, then they don't believe in the bible. They believe in the watchtower.

  If they abandon the society, the they are wicked apostates. Many have abandoned the society of changed doctrine.

  It's a logical flow of questions that leaves them in a bind. They have to either abandon scripture and admit that they don't trust the bible, or show a lack of faith in the "Faithful and discreet slave". Cognitive dissonance may set in, but the point will be made.
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  46

  God: the central question

  by ixthis in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  of all the issues affecting every person's picture of reality, nothing is more fundamental than questions about god.. is there one god, creator and sovereign of all?could there be more than one god?

  or no god at all?if there is a god (or gods), then what is that god (or gods) like?nothing determines your worldview-and the course of your life-more than how you answer those questions.

  yet some atheists like to make light of the god question.

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  JonathanH

  Theology, the practice of making up stuff about made up stuff. Must be a tough discipline....to keep a straight face in. BOOM!
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  62

  What Did You Not Do Because You Were A Jehovah's Witness That You Wanted To Do?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i didn't go to college and of course, "higher education" was never recommended.

  still, i never felt terribly deprived because of not going further in my education.. yet, i did wish that i could've had "normal" aka "worldly friends".

  i wish that as witnesses, we could've been better integrated with other people.

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  JonathanH

  Alot of stupid things when I was a teenager, mostly videogames or books that I didn't play or read because they were spiritistic or violent or something else that disagreed with the society.

  Have a normal teenage life, date girls, go to parties, have fun.

  Didn't become a scientist or get a degree in a scientific field (working on rectifying that now)
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  10

  Kramer's dream of becoming a banker

  by sabastious in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it was sienfeld's newman and kramer, in the midst of yet another zany and convoluted ruse, when i first heard the term banker; i don't know how old i was when i heard it, couldn't have been older than 10.. what is a banker anyway?

  someone who stores your money for you?

  why couldn't i just have everything i have ever produced in my lifetime attached to some paper in a safe in my house?

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  JonathanH

  ...I have no idea what this means.