Posts by JonathanH

11

Blog - Jehovah's Witnesses and (Academic) Dialogue with Non-Members at the Society of Biblical Literature?

by Mickey mouse in

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-gilmour/jehovahs-witnesses-and-ac_b_987545.html.

excerpt (bold added):.

intrigued by this gap in the scholarly conversation about contemporary uses of the bible, i recently proposed an sbl session examining the watch tower bible and tract society's use of scripture.

JonathanH

The academic paper linked to in the article is interesting as well. He critically examines the Revelation book, and the JW interpretation of revelation. he draws attention to the numerous violent images in the pages that seem out of place for a religion that is pacifistic, and also comments on the lack of methodology in making extremely specific interpretations of the text. Like how the seventh trumpet being blown is prophetic of an assembly in 1922 in Ohio held by Brother Rutherford, no other possible interpretation is given, that's just what that prophecy means, but exactly how that conclusion is drawn is rather vague and certainly less than methodical.

It's great watching people with an actual education comment on a group that just insists that it's educated.

11

Blog - Jehovah's Witnesses and (Academic) Dialogue with Non-Members at the Society of Biblical Literature?

by Mickey mouse in

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-gilmour/jehovahs-witnesses-and-ac_b_987545.html.

excerpt (bold added):.

intrigued by this gap in the scholarly conversation about contemporary uses of the bible, i recently proposed an sbl session examining the watch tower bible and tract society's use of scripture.

JonathanH

That's an interesting article, and the JW apologists are already on it. They state that they used to debate, but it was unproductive. Now they just preach because jesus knows best. then there are the embarrasingly trite and obliviously offensive metaphors like "if you saw a bottle with a skull and cross bones on it would you drink it?" referring to learning about other religions. It's been a long time since I actually saw the witness mindset, and it's still sickening.

197

What is "truth" - COULD Einstein Have Been Wrong?

by AGuest in

jw
friends

may you all have peace!.

just came across this article:.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44629271/ns/technology_and_science-science/?gt1=43001.

JonathanH

I'm not going to read through all of this, seeing as how it seems to have gone all over, but one thing needs to be pointed out (in case it hasn't). If a particle was detected moving faster than light, that doesn't prove einstein wrong. Einstein's equations and theories allow for things to move faster than light, it just doesn't allow for objects of mass to accelerate past the speed of light. Such particles have been hypothesized, and they are called tachyons, but never have they been observed. Even if the tests aren't in error (and they probably are), then that doesn't throw einstein into the fire, it just shows something we've never seen before.

69

More apostate hating from the Watchtower

by Igot2bme in

i ran across this post on fb-.

the november 15, 2011 study version of the watchtower, has this to say in an article praising jehu's actions against the family of ahab.

"the prophet elisha sent one of the sons of the prophets to anoint jehu as king and to instruct him to kill every male of the apostate house of ahab.2 ki.

JonathanH

Damn, this seriously needs to be forwarded to the authorities that are looking into the hate speech claims. The independent could do a follow up article quoting this. They wouldn't even have to comment on it, they just need to show the article and it would speak for itself.

26

Last Weekend Ever (according to OBVES) Whatcha gonna Do?

by LostGeneration in

jw
friends

obves says the world ends next week, meaning this is the last weekend ever!

better make it a good one!.

i'm gonna step out on a limb and predict that i will have at least 1,784 more weekends before my dirt nap starts, so i'm gonna sit on my rear and watch as much college and nfl football as possible.

JonathanH

Work on some math and biology homework.

68

Just why would god create dinos??

by highdose in

the jw answer to this is that there must have been some purpose for them that we don't yet understand.. but dinos were pretty violent, basic animals who killed without mercy.

i know not all of them but alot of them did.

the ones that were vegetarian ate huge masses of vegatation, how is that productive to the earth?.

JonathanH

Saying that love must be a part of the universe because you had to come to know it some how is a non-starter. That line of reasoning can be applied equally to anything you know that are also human constructs. Did God make hate into the fabric of the universe? Is the English Language part of the universe? What about Post modern Art? How did anyone come to know sadness if it isn't part of the universe? These things aren't found in the universe, they are found in us. They are human constructs. Some are evolutionary, others are emergent properties of our evolution. But they are woven into the universe. The universe is a vast amoral expanse which is overwhelmingly hostile to life.

Claiming parasites are a result of evolution doesn't get god off the hook. John Haught, as I mentioned before, has come up with some bizarre and twisted theology to try and explain why god would set into motion something he would know full well from the outset would create a world of horrors that belongs in some cosmic circus side show. If you believe in a creator god, then he is responsible for the eons of pain, fear, and violence that he beset on the concept he called "life."

So if a cold amoral universe, and a violent diseased planet, and the bible having been shown to be a set of fanciful myths no different from greek or roman mythology, and you still think "well, there are answers, we just don't know them." Is there anything that you could know that would convince you that your world view is wrong? How much would it take? Another holocaust? The near eradication of mankind by natural forces? Alien invasion? Or is it a matter of "It doesn't matter what happens, It's jesus or bust, I'll just work around reality as I need to?" That is something I had to ask myself when I was still a witness. With platitudes like "don't lean on your own understanding" and "the light get's brighter" I could answer just about any theological or scientific question with a mere shrug and that was enough. Is that really enough?

68

Just why would god create dinos??

by highdose in

the jw answer to this is that there must have been some purpose for them that we don't yet understand.. but dinos were pretty violent, basic animals who killed without mercy.

i know not all of them but alot of them did.

the ones that were vegetarian ate huge masses of vegatation, how is that productive to the earth?.

JonathanH

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_evil

natural evil is the theological term for evil that is not perpetrated by those that bear moral responsibility. The world of nature be it natural disasters or living things that do not bear moral responsibility for their actions fit into this category.

68

Just why would god create dinos??

by highdose in

the jw answer to this is that there must have been some purpose for them that we don't yet understand.. but dinos were pretty violent, basic animals who killed without mercy.

i know not all of them but alot of them did.

the ones that were vegetarian ate huge masses of vegatation, how is that productive to the earth?.

JonathanH

But all life does NOT rely on the violent death of other life in order to survive. And if some life survives without the violent (or otherwise) death of other life, then the possibility is there that all life can.

What is an acceptable amount of violence in nature for an all loving deity to create? Some things are vegetarian, some live off of waste, some live off of light. But then the rest rip out throats, hunt the young and the weak. Or lay their eggs inside the living so the larvae feast on the internal organs, saving the most vital ones for last to ensure the host survives as long as possible. If you think life is designed, then violence is built into the design of an incredibly large percentage of life. Did god not create the parasites? Why would something so specially designed to malign and kill in such an elaborate way suddenly be changed to be peaceful?

Your first paragraph is what I was talking about, the apathy. These questions aren't important, as long as you believe in the loving part of the story. But what you don't realize is that love isn't a deity, it isn't some universal law or force. It's you. That compassion is yours. The universe is a cold amoral place, the earth is a chaotic violent sphere and it's digesting you. It's great to focus on love, but don't try to say that it's built into the universe or it's a defining characteristic of the way the earth was made, because you won't find it there. You find it in yourself.

68

Just why would god create dinos??

by highdose in

the jw answer to this is that there must have been some purpose for them that we don't yet understand.. but dinos were pretty violent, basic animals who killed without mercy.

i know not all of them but alot of them did.

the ones that were vegetarian ate huge masses of vegatation, how is that productive to the earth?.

JonathanH

For the same reason he created the other 95% of species that ever existed but are now extinct. He was either a callous creator, or a collosal fuckup. You don't create an ecosystem, watch it systematically be destroyed by shifting continents, changing climates, disease, famine, and competition and then give yourself a pat on the back for incredible wisdom, or compassion.

Natural evil is a difficult problem for theodicy. Given that god could've made all life autotrophic (if you say it's impossible, you have a pretty low opinion of god's engineering skills), it's hard to come up with a justification for all life to rely on the violent death of other life in order to survive. The theologian John Haught comes up with the weak and twisted argument that it is god's grand drama, it is some incredible show unfolding before him to watch. But this only paints a portrait of a god sitting back and watching a pack of lions eat a baby elephant alive with it's intestines spilling out while it weakly yelps in fear and pain while god sits back with a foam rubber finger and a penant that says "go carnivores!" With everything that we know about biology in the modern era it becomes impossible to come up with a sane explanation that makes the designer of our biosphere a "good" individual. Theologians will try though. Most people won't care and say it's not important. The rest of us will put our head in our hands and shake our heads in a combination of incredulity at the explanations, and depression towards the intellectual apathy of those that don't care.

17

Two more youths get kicked out of the organization, also kicked out of their house.

by JonathanH in

jw
friends

so i used to work with these two younger gentlemen back when i washed windows for a local elder's company.

good kids, sons of an elder, responsible and hardworking.

i ran into him the other day briefly and he said him and his younger brother moved in together (they are about 19, and 18, maybe 20, and 18), and i was surprised.

JonathanH

I'm pretty sure it was on account of the "brazen" way it was done. They knew it was wrong, they were purposely going against the society's council because they felt it was suffocating, and they were attempting to hide it. It wasn't just that some kids had a few drinks, it's that they said "Being a witness blows, let's all sneak off every night, be completely different people and do things they tell us not to do."