Kensho

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Posts by Kensho

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  18

  How many on JWN still trapped in Org. & will it get easier with time?

  by Kensho in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have only been mentally out for just over a year and i find it difficult to live this double life, ( ex-elder/reg pioneer).

  i'm still in for probably the same reason as most who post here=.

  a wife that i cherish= who would be destroyed and kick me to the curb.

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  Kensho

  I have only been mentally out for just over a year and I find it difficult to live this double life, ( ex-elder/reg pioneer)

  I'm still in for probably the same reason as most who post here=

  a wife that I cherish= who would be destroyed and kick me to the curb

  lifelong (40 yrs.) close friends= who would totally disown me the second the announcement is made no questions asked! ( I don't blame them, I blame the Org. they are just R&F prisoners)

  The absolute constant being in a state of shock that I have wasted my entire life serving the org. who have lied to us.

  I have told myself I can deal with this for the sake of keeping the above in tact, but it has become a big cat and mouse game, always on guard not to slip up saying something that would out myself (although it's obvious I'm on edge), field service without the “faith” it takes to do it is almost impossible, and the meetings...well you get it.

  So some comments from those who are in this situation on what you have done to cope and not loose your mind would be appreciated.

  I must say this forum has helped immensely as being stuck-in you really don't have anyone to talk to or vent and their is some comfort in knowing you are not alone.

  Kensho
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  25

  Confusing messages at DC

  by Kensho in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  okay i know everyone has probably already attended the dc and have posted their experiences here, but i just went to fri. and sat.

  session (with a drama although timely for families i thought would never end) and a couple of bizarre things stood out.. very poor attempt at explaining the overlapping gen. new light.

  during the brother's talk he said" there are two phases to the overlapping generations".

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  Kensho

  Okay I know everyone has probably already attended the DC and have posted their experiences here, but I just went to Fri. and Sat. session (with a drama although timely for families I thought would never end) and a couple of bizarre things stood out.

  1. very poor attempt at explaining the overlapping Gen. New light

     During the brother's talk he said" there are two phases to the overlapping generations"

     Phase 1= “anointed” during the year 1914 ( must have been adults in 1914)

     Phase 2= “anointed” overlapping gen. That are alive today

  Point Br. Made - that no matter which phase 1 or 2 they are all very old and not much time left!

  Excuse me isn't one of the GB just in his mid 50's? Not one script. Sited other than Matt. 24 :34

  I guess this buys the org. another 30-40 yrs.

  But the kicker of conflicting messages presented = on a couple of parts and demo's the subject of paying off credit cards was discussed with the view to simplifying in order to do more in the ministry

  sounds good wright?

  Then why the hell is there credit card machines throughout the convention and constant announcements from the platform to make use of them to make DONATIONS during the weekend??????

  Does anyone get this? My wife thinks I'm just making a big deal out of nothing.

  Kensho Satori
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  28

  Something I struggle with mentally. Anyone Else?

  by thinking_1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends
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  Kensho

  Thinking_1

  Thanks for the great post, I do not post much but lurk here everyday for just such topics,we need more discussions like this instead of the never ending tear downs.

  This is especially good for the stuck-ins because it helps us to deal with the mental anguish and challenges that almost all of us deal with who are still “in” due to family and lifelong friends.

  I agree that our first responsibility is to ourselves once we have started to use our power of reason again, as Thomas Paine said in the book Age of Reason (yes I'm guilty of reading non-org books)

  “...it is necessary to the happiness of man that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or disbelieving; it consist in professing to believe what he does not believe.”

  I find myself very conflicted on this subject as to whether we should try to”open” the eyes of JW family and friends- but because this is no ordinary religion with its destructive and controlling nature of people's lives and the constant successful recruitment of newbies that join the insanity, I somewhat feel an obligation to take some sort of action. But how to do this without destroying lifelong dreams of some, is at this point beyond me.

  PS I love the movie references they are spot on with many of the things JW's face.

  Cheers!

  Kensho Satori
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  61

  Is There ANY Religion That You Would Feel Comfortable Being A Member Of?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i know that most of us here despise the witness religion.

  are you soured on all all religions?.

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  Kensho

  I have been focused on the beliefs of the founder fathers Paine,Jefferson,Washington, Franklin and many famous people past and present,

  1) no holy books

  2) no prophets

  3) no organizsed religion

  4) no preistcraft

  Deism= " Where belief in God is united with our God given reason" Check it out it really makes since www.deism.com

  Kensho
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  224

  When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed? Why It Matters - What the Evidence Shows

  by wannabefree in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  obviously 607 is a problem, watchower coming out full forces on this one in the latest public edition.. http://download.jw.org/files/media_magazines/wp_e_20111001.pdf.

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  Kensho

  I posted this on another thread, but I think it fits here better!

  70 yrs. exiled-586 or 607, Babvlonian Kings,1914,1975, overlapping generations..........

  These type of debates and arguments about dates, time tables,prophecies, and when the end will come etc. etc. whether they are promoted the WT religion or any other man made religion is all a waste of time.

  WHO CARES? The GB just uses this stuff to make the R&F think they are spirit-directed and because they have all the time (and your money) in the world to sit around and conjure up this crap they get away with it! The R&F are to busy trying to make a living,preaching and going to all the meetings, so whatever the GB says is just dandy with them.

  The Bible and all the other “holy books” claim their source is from God and that we should pattern our lives after them and then command us to convert other people to do likewise.

  The very fact that the “truth” is not plain and understandable by everyone proves these books are not from the Creator of the universe.

  This is evident from the order in the universe, the Creator would never give his creation a jigsaw puzzle with several key pieces missing and then tell us to just figure it out especially if it meant your life. The Creator would certainly not expect us to let the likes of Russell, Rutherford, Franz and the gang hand the missing pieces out either, just look at how many WRONG pieces they have handed out over the last 100+ yrs.

  These books are fairy tales from superstitious people who lived thousands of years ago to give them some sort of direction in their miserable lives. I mean come on goat herders, nomads,and tent dwelling tribal butchers are the ones chosen to record the word of God..give me a break.

  Today in the 21 st century Christian’s, Muslims, Hindus etc.….... and especially JW's have locked up their God given gift of REASON and are trying to live in a fairytale in a modern day that easily dispels fairy-tales and at the point of human evolution that these things defy reason

  I for one choose to watch my fairy-tales on the movie screen and deal with the reality of this life we have been given, we are in the here and now let's make the best of it and leave the rest to the Creator, and unite our belief in God with our gift of reason.

  Peace

  Kensho Satori
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  22

  Is the Watchtower stubbornly holding onto the 70 year exile figure within the Old Testament?

  by sabastious in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i read outlaw's post about how he has watched people make an online career out of debating for and against arguments regarding 607 and 586 being the date of jerusalem's fall.

  he's right that this has happened and it's had the nasty side effect of "mudding up the waters" so-to-speak in regards to anyone wishing to glean wisdom from these debates.. i am not a historian and when posts start getting overtly historical my reading of them seems to slow down and i find myself having to reread posts.. i am going to try to simply state each argument to see if i have put it together (correct me if i am wrong):.

  the watchtower says that they default to the bible's figure of 70 years of jewish exile which is used more than once in the old testament.

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  Kensho

  70 yrs. exile, 586 or 607 1914, 1975, overlapping generation yada yada yada....

  These type of debates and arguments about dates, time tables,prophecies, and when the end will come etc. etc. whether they are promoted the WT religion or any other man made religion is all a waste of time.

  WHO CARES? The GB just uses this stuff to make the R&F think they are spirit-directed and because they have all the time (and your money) in the world to sit around and conjure up this crap they get away with it! The R&F are to busy trying to make a living,preaching and going to all the meetings, so whatever the GB says is just dandy with them.

  The Bible and all the other “holy books” claim their source is from God and that we should pattern our lives after them and then command us to convert other people to do likewise.

  The very fact that the “truth” is not plain and understandable by everyone proves these books are not from the Creator of the universe.

  This is evident from the order in the universe, the Creator would never give his creation a jigsaw puzzle with several key pieces missing and then tell us to just figure it out especially if it meant your life. The Creator would certainly not expect us to let the likes of Russell, Rutherford, Franz and the gang hand the missing pieces out either, just look at how many WRONG pieces they have handed out over the last 100+ yrs.

  These books are fairy tales from superstitious people who lived thousands of years ago to give them some sort of direction in their miserable lives. I mean come on goat herders, nomads,and tent dwelling tribal butchers are the ones chosen to record the word of God..give me a break.

  Today in the 21 st century Christian’s, Muslims, Hindus etc.….... and especially JW's have locked up their God given gift of REASON and are trying to live in a fairytale in a modern day that easily dispels fairy-tales and at the point of human evolution that these things defy reason

  I for one choose to watch my fairy-tales on the movie screen and deal with the reality of this life we have been given, we are in the here and now let's make the best of it and leave the rest to the Creator, and unite our belief in God with our gift of reason.

  Peace

  Kensho Satori
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  4

  Is this Stupid or is it Just me?

  by Kensho in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  check it out, i played with the band today (all brothers) at the hilton resort by the pool, nice gig but the mother of a 12 year old came up and asked us to sing happy b-day to him, wow very awkward the brother she approached said 'why don't you sing it to him" and shoved the microphone in her face, she refused about 4 or 5 times and was very frustrated we would not sing as this is a really common request of bands.

  she was really put on the spot, so she did it and we just stood there, thank god the crowd joined in singing.

  when it was over the brother turned to one of the band members and said we should remember to bring the b-day music on mp3 to play when this happens.

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  Kensho

  Deist,

  I agree, I always had a hard time with this one when my kids were young, but as a dub I towed the line.

  are you Deist? I have been reading Thomas Paine's essays, very reasonable way to look at religion and I think I have been an undercover Deist the whole time Ive been a witness. Recomend any good books or website on the subject?

  Kensho
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  4

  Is this Stupid or is it Just me?

  by Kensho in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  check it out, i played with the band today (all brothers) at the hilton resort by the pool, nice gig but the mother of a 12 year old came up and asked us to sing happy b-day to him, wow very awkward the brother she approached said 'why don't you sing it to him" and shoved the microphone in her face, she refused about 4 or 5 times and was very frustrated we would not sing as this is a really common request of bands.

  she was really put on the spot, so she did it and we just stood there, thank god the crowd joined in singing.

  when it was over the brother turned to one of the band members and said we should remember to bring the b-day music on mp3 to play when this happens.

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  Kensho

  check it out, I played with the band today (all brothers) at the Hilton resort by the pool, nice gig but the mother of a 12 year old came up and asked us to sing happy B-day to him, wow very awkward the brother she approached said 'why don't you sing it to him" and shoved the microphone in her face, she refused about 4 or 5 times and was very frustrated we would not sing as this is a really common request of bands. She was really put on the spot, so she did it and we just stood there, thank God the crowd joined in singing. When it was over the brother turned to one of the band members and said we should remember to bring the b-day music on mp3 to play when this happens. Like yo what's the difference? I don't fault my friend, what else could he do with such a stupid restriction put on the R&F by the GB. With such a harmless thing as recognizing someone's birthday- what is the big fracken deal. Wedding rings are way more pagan than B-day celebrations. comments please Kensho
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  40

  FADERS: How determined are you?

  by VampireDCLXV in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after being here on jwn for a while, one does see a spectrum of sorts.

  there are people here in various stages of their exit from their lives as jws.

  some are full fledged kh and fs attendees whom we call "the conscious class".

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  Kensho

  I'm still in and of the conscious class, have moved from elder to pub. Accepting only minor responsibilities, minimum FS with only the Bible and the real message it contains, no studies (indoctrinations).

  Wife in and a wonderful human being and super close friends of almost 40 yrs. who are trapped as I once found myself. I have no desire to disrupt their lives as in my opinion we are all here by choice.

  I'm just riding this out to see where it goes but this time it is on my own terms. ( I think big things are afoot from within)

  The basic principles in the Bible are good ones to try to live by for self improvement. ( in my opinion)

  Anyway the R&F are mostly self sacrificing people who think they are doing God's will and want the same thing all humans want. A FREE & HAPPY LIFE!

  My issues go far beyond any religion, I have issues with the Creator himself for allowing this mess and the mass confusion and suffering of his creation----- that will be for another post.

  I don't fear Dfing (been there-done that from both sides of the table) and do not fear the “big A” I say bring it on at least we will know he has finally returned and gives a crap.

  Since escaping the mind control of the Borg I am now really focusing on the questions I have always had and tucked away “waiting on Jehovah” and although this place can get a little out there it has been a true haven for expressing myself and just letting the chips fall where they may!

  Thanks for the great post!

  PS sorry for all the brackets it looks like the NWT

  Kensho Satori
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  142

  Undercover Brother Campaign- have you received your invite?

  by stuckinamovement in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  without specifics being mentioned as to what it is......(to avoid tipping off certain lurkers).. how many people know about the upcoming summer long campaign?

  please use this thread to confirm receipt of your campaign invitation.

  take care.

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  Kensho

  Still in and living in the shadows, I will be attending 3 seperate DC's (can't do 3 day's in a row) I'm down for whatever, please send me PM with details!

  Kensho